Newbie Question: How many fly sizes & colors to tie for next season?

I should have added that Taneycomo is in Missouri, not far from
Northern Arkansas. I could fish some of the other trout streams in
that area too.

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:31:01 -0000, mdk77
wrote:

Bunny Leech,
Pine Squirrel,
Slump Buster,
Dave's Hopper terrestrial,
Scud,
Sow Bug,

Never fish the above.

Midge Pupa,

Could be anything from a 12 to a 28. I prefer something in the 20 to
24 range.

Gold Ribbed Hare's Ear,

Size 12 to 18 in both tan (original) and olive.

Pheasant Tail,

My favorite go to nymph: I prefer 'em small 18 - 24, with and w/o
weight.

Elk Hair Caddis,

Anything from a 12 to 18, concentrate on 14 and 16, however. Tie both
tan and green. Maybe even in black.

Adams Dry Fly,

Old stand-by: I tie it as a parachute from 14 to 18.

Adult midge pattern,

My favorite midge pattern is nothing more than brown (or black) thread
for a body with tiny gold (or black) ribbing, a tuft of cream antron
cut *very* short for gills, peacock herl head. Tied in 18 - 22.


Crackleback,
???
Soft Hackle,

Soft hackle: I tie a solft hackle Pheasant Tail that is a killer.
Size 14 -18. Experiment with different colors/ribbing/head

San Juan Worm,

Never tied one. I've bought them to actually fish the San Juan, and
they worked well (gaudy orange).


Wooly Bugger,

I don't tie buggers (or fish 'em either), but something in black,
green and olive size 4, 6, 8 should suffice.

Wooly Worm,

See Wooly Bugger, but smaller sizes.

Gurgler,
Spider terrestrial,
Jim's Streamer (local Maribou streamer),

Never fish them.

Brassie,

Great all around nymph, expecially for caddis. Try tying in different
colors if you can find the colored wire - copper, gold, green, red,
black. Size 16, 18, 20

Sculpin,
Clouser,
Zonker,

I don't fish them.

Don't be afraid to experiment with your ties. I once saw a parachute
pheasant tail nymph (dry), and tied a hares ear with a parachute.
Worked wonderfully as does the PT parachute. You can put soft hackle
on just about any nymph to make it a different and unique fly. I've
been very successful that past couple of years with a variety of soft
hackle nymphs - yellow, orange, green, brown.

Good luck. Hope ya have a rotary vice. d;o)

Dave

On Oct 11, 5:18 pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:31:01 -0000, mdk77
wrote:

Bunny Leech,
Pine Squirrel,
Slump Buster,
Dave's Hopper terrestrial,
Scud,
Sow Bug,

Never fish the above.

Midge Pupa,

Could be anything from a 12 to a 28. I prefer something in the 20 to
24 range.

Gold Ribbed Hare's Ear,

Size 12 to 18 in both tan (original) and olive.

Pheasant Tail,

My favorite go to nymph: I prefer 'em small 18 - 24, with and w/o
weight.

Elk Hair Caddis,

Anything from a 12 to 18, concentrate on 14 and 16, however. Tie both
tan and green. Maybe even in black.

Adams Dry Fly,

Old stand-by: I tie it as a parachute from 14 to 18.

Adult midge pattern,

My favorite midge pattern is nothing more than brown (or black) thread
for a body with tiny gold (or black) ribbing, a tuft of cream antron
cut *very* short for gills, peacock herl head. Tied in 18 - 22.



Crackleback,
???
Soft Hackle,

Soft hackle: I tie a solft hackle Pheasant Tail that is a killer.
Size 14 -18. Experiment with different colors/ribbing/head

San Juan Worm,

Never tied one. I've bought them to actually fish the San Juan, and
they worked well (gaudy orange).

Wooly Bugger,

I don't tie buggers (or fish 'em either), but something in black,
green and olive size 4, 6, 8 should suffice.

Wooly Worm,

See Wooly Bugger, but smaller sizes.

Gurgler,
Spider terrestrial,
Jim's Streamer (local Maribou streamer),

Never fish them.

Brassie,

Great all around nymph, expecially for caddis. Try tying in different
colors if you can find the colored wire - copper, gold, green, red,
black. Size 16, 18, 20

Sculpin,
Clouser,
Zonker,

I don't fish them.

Don't be afraid to experiment with your ties. I once saw a parachute
pheasant tail nymph (dry), and tied a hares ear with a parachute.
Worked wonderfully as does the PT parachute. You can put soft hackle
on just about any nymph to make it a different and unique fly. I've
been very successful that past couple of years with a variety of soft
hackle nymphs - yellow, orange, green, brown.

Good luck. Hope ya have a rotary vice. d;o)

Dave

Dave, thank you VERY much for the help. I really appreciate it.

- Dave K.

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:49:58 -0000, mdk77
wrote:

Dave, thank you VERY much for the help. I really appreciate it.

You're welcome.

One other thing: Don't worry too much if your fly doesn't look
perfect. I found my all time "lucky fly" in the jaw of a 22 inch
landlocked salmon. Over a period of about two years, I used that fly
on and off. It always caught fish. I don't know what it was supposed
to look like new, because when I removed it from the fish's jaw, it
was already torn up. It just got worse every time I used it until it
was finally little more than a little bit of golden brown dubbing on a
size 16 scud hook (after lots of repairs). I finally lost it. I
tried unsuccessfully to copy it. I can not imagine what the fish saw
in it, but it did work.

Dave

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:37:56 +0000, mdk77 wrote:

As some of you already know, this is my first season of fly fishing.
I tie my own flies so I'm beginning to put together a list of flies to
tie over the winter, for next season. So far I have a list of 25
patterns that I'd like to fish next year. This is a lot compared with
what I tied for my first season this year (I had about 10 patterns
that a local fisherman recommended for my area, and they were very
effective for me). For this past season, I tied roughly two sizes and
two colors of most of these patterns, and tried to tie 6-12 of each
variation.

I realize this is a general question and that patterns may vary the
answer - but - in general, how many sizes of a given pattern should I
tie? An example would be an adult midge pattern in sizes 20-28 or a
given nymph in sizes 16 to 28 -- how many sizes would be adequate to
populate my boxes for the season? I did the math and about stroked
out at the number of flies I would have to tie to do ALL of the sizes
for ALL of the 25 flies. Especially since I am a slow tier at this
point in my experience .... I think I'd die of old age before I got em
all tied :-)

Thanks in advance for any help that you can give me on this.

- Dave K.

I'm certainly no expert, and am quite new to the sport myself; but what
I've read would indicate to me that it's going to matter where you fish.
There are, for example, books on fly fishing in Yellowstone and fly
fishing in Idaho which describe which patterns are more popular in those
areas.

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:37:56 -0000, mdk77
wrote:

As some of you already know, this is my first season of fly fishing.
I tie my own flies so I'm beginning to put together a list of flies to
tie over the winter, for next season. So far I have a list of 25
patterns that I'd like to fish next year. This is a lot compared with
what I tied for my first season this year (I had about 10 patterns
that a local fisherman recommended for my area, and they were very
effective for me). For this past season, I tied roughly two sizes and
two colors of most of these patterns, and tried to tie 6-12 of each
variation.

I realize this is a general question and that patterns may vary the
answer - but - in general, how many sizes of a given pattern should I
tie? An example would be an adult midge pattern in sizes 20-28 or a
given nymph in sizes 16 to 28 -- how many sizes would be adequate to
populate my boxes for the season? I did the math and about stroked
out at the number of flies I would have to tie to do ALL of the sizes
for ALL of the 25 flies. Especially since I am a slow tier at this
point in my experience .... I think I'd die of old age before I got em
all tied :-)

Thanks in advance for any help that you can give me on this.

- Dave K.

SIZE 16-28!?!?! Good Lord, man, those must be some _BABY_ tarpon in
your neck of the woods...or are you after bass?

HTH,
R
OTOH...a 24 with 100 yds of topshot on a three-oh...AFAIK, no one has
tried it, so....

"mdk77"
An example would be an adult midge pattern in sizes 20-28 or a
given nymph in sizes 16 to 28 -- how many sizes would be adequate to
populate my boxes for the season? I did the math and about stroked
out at the number of flies I would have to tie to do ALL of the sizes
for ALL of the 25 flies.


I see you have already gotten many answers and most are probably accurate
regardless of how much they contradict each other.

Fishing Montahoming for trout ....

I find that the big majority of flies I require are between #16 and #20,
inclusive. Size #18 is the most used. The exceptions are generally to
meet the more famous big bug hatches, the stoneflies and "drakes," all of
which are over for the year before the season is one third gone.

The way I do it is to tie specific patterns to suggest specific food items
and only in sizes that accurately portray that food organism. Sometimes on
less encountered items I only tie one size to match the small end of the
size spectrum, I've found "too small" will outfish "too big" nearly always
..... for trout.

At the end of each season I go through my boxes and cull items that were
never used or failed to perform ..... unless I didn't encounter that fishing
opportunity and am certain I will in future seasons. This keeps the boxes
from becoming filled with the unused and ineffective. I travel with
several of those big divided plastic boxes like you might store screws in
and they hold excesses from which I refill my carry with me boxes.

So, a couple examples

Sparkle Duns .... I tie them in #22 to #14 BUT ... only a very few in the
#22, a half dozen olive/black and a half dozen a bright green .... some in
the #20, for two types of baetis and late season PMDs, a LOT in the #18 for
the majority of the PMDs and 'olives,' and a few in the larger sizes for
the first PMD hatches and odd color such as suitable for Mahogany Duns or
March Browns. The really big mayflies are better suggested by a
different pattern.


PT nymphs ... an excellent suggestion of mayfly nymphs of most species ... I
tie in 20 - 14 ... mostly ... you guessed it #18

Midge pupa ... this could get endless, so practicality comes into play...
seine your waters, pick one or three colors most common and match them down
to sizes that get silly ... my definition would be #24 ... you don't need
many of each until you are certain which ones are best. Add a very few
AS YOU ACTUALLY ENCOUNTER specific needs ... so I tie a few big midges for
western lakes, but I don't carry them normally. they are in a stillwater box
that only comes with me on lakes

My carrying boxes are populated with two or three of the less used
size/color ties and up to 8 or 10 of the most used. Two will usually get
me through the unexpected day, 8 allows a few days between restocking.
They are restocked from the storage boxes as flies are used up, often daily.
They have a special section for "experiments" and experiments are tied in
the quantity "two or three" ... true successes are given a permanent spot
in one box or another, the far more common "ho-hum, caught some fish, but
nothing special" version are used until gone then abandoned, the real
failures get tossed .... opening a crammed fly box and not being able to
find what you want because of all the junk flies is ridiculous ... toss em
or cut off the materials and reuse the hook, if budget demands


Tying is fun ... have fun ...but ... don't get so carried away with "a dozen
each of 9 sizes in 6 colors" you'll regret it ... tie three each, keep
notes on what works until you have your own list of preferences. If you
break all three off in huge fish in an hour ... yep, tie more until you
drop, but still don't carry much more than a day's supply with you on the
water ... imho

"Larry L" wrote

... imho



Another thing that came to mind.

I don't think anything has improved my fly fishing as much as one simple
rule I came up with and try to follow.

"Don't open a fly box UNTIL you know what fly you are looking for."

In other words try to avoid posing for the classic fly fishing photo of the
guy looking at his box hoping some magic pattern will attract him. This
forces you to do things in a better order, i.e. look around first. As you
tie, try bearing this rule in mind, changing it to, "Is this a
size/color/pattern that I will specifically look for next season." and tie
large quantities of ONLY those combinations that clearly pass the test ...
limiting the "maybe" ties to quantities appropriate for the "experiments"
corner of one box.

Larry L wrote:
"Larry L" wrote


... imho




Another thing that came to mind.

I don't think anything has improved my fly fishing as much as one simple
rule I came up with and try to follow.

"Don't open a fly box UNTIL you know what fly you are looking for."

In other words try to avoid posing for the classic fly fishing photo of the
guy looking at his box hoping some magic pattern will attract him. This
forces you to do things in a better order, i.e. look around first. As you
tie, try bearing this rule in mind, changing it to, "Is this a
size/color/pattern that I will specifically look for next season." and tie
large quantities of ONLY those combinations that clearly pass the test ...
limiting the "maybe" ties to quantities appropriate for the "experiments"
corner of one box.




The statements you make are accurate but are only necessary if you
assume that the trout are always very selective to pattern. IMO, this is
most often not the case. In most places and most of the time, trout feed
more opportunistically than selectively. The exceptions are heavily
fished streams and rivers during heavy hatches. (Which, I know, are the
types of streams and rivers you choose to fish.) Most streams and rivers
are not fertile enough for the trout to become this selective. If they
were, they would starve.

Attractor patterns catch LOTS of trout.

Willi

"Willi" wrote


Attractor patterns catch LOTS of trout.

Willi


Absolutely true.

However, I tried ( apparently without success ) to suggest an approach to
"pattern collecting" that would work for most streams/fishing styles, not
just the type I prefer.

For instance, I wouldn't tie Humpies in vast arrays of variation.

I believe that sizes, shapes and, lastly, colors are going to work best when
they suggest something the fish sees and eats regularly, even if that fish
has never had a selective second in his life.

Thus, I personally, am far more likely to fish an "average" freestone with a
#16 Yellow Humpy than a #2 red one ... although both would catch fish.

I just went and looked up Humpy in a Jack Dennis pattern book ... it lists
sizes as 2 -24 and suggests 6 different thread/body colors. Most of those
possibilities are going to be less effective, day after day, than the ones
in sizes/colors that suggest natural food forms. So even with attractor
patterns I'd suggest limiting the silly glut in the fly box suggested in
many pattern books ... that was the point I tried to make ...

Tie in quantity only what experience has proven,
have a SMALL corner in a box for experiments,
ruthlessly cull the failures and the common.

I DO suggest a beginner tie the #2 Fluorescent Green humpy suggested in the
book
above, but NOT to "populate" a fly box, only to try, test,
and learn from ... it may become a personal favorite, may not.

P.S. I fished mainly freestone "attractor" type streams for over 30 years
prior to my retirement.