Fly Fishing Canoe

"Bob Weiske" wrote in message
...

I've enjoyed one of these for years of lake fly fishing in the Sierra:
http://www.pokeboat.com/

Bob Weiske, long time lurker

Nice pokeboat,
I just pulled up the site. 23 lbs is pretty light.
-tom

On Oct 14, 10:02 pm, mdk77 wrote:
I'm saving my nickels for a canoe to fly fish from. I'm hoping, God-
willing, to be able to buy one over the Winter, or early Spring. Do
many of you fish from canoes? I'm thinking a canoe would be a simple
way to get onto the many ponds, rivers and lakes around here, without
the hassle of having to trailer a bigger boat. My brother-in-law in
Oregon has had a canoe for years, and it sure seems peaceful and
hassle-free.

I'm looking at a 17 footer that is stable, light and capable of being
a tandem OR a solo canoe. Have any of you had experience (or heard
good or bad) about the Souris River Canoes? I'm looking at the
"Quetico 17". Here's a link to what I'm considering:

http://www.redrockstore.com/quetico17.html

I think this canoe would be great for the places I fish around here in
Central Illinois -- and be easy to take on trips out-of-state.

Let me know if there is something else worth considering in a fly
fishing canoe. Thanks.

- Dave K.

All the advice you have been given is good.

In a nutshell, the very things that make a canoe good on the water
(responsive, quick, etc) make them scary to stand and cast in. And if
they turn easily when you paddle, they can twist all around when you
cast. If you have an excellent sense of balance, then you could stand
and cast in almost any canoe...including a whitewater boat with a
curved bottom (tippy), but its far from relaxing.

For the intermediate caster/paddler, then you will need to compromise
somewhere....something flat bottomed (so it won't tilt side to side),
with little rocker (so it won't twist around), fairly long, in the 17
foot range (anything longer is a bear to paddle, anything shorter is
skittish to stand in), and BEAMY (that means wide...makes it more
stable). A flat-bottomed, rockerless, beamy 17 foot boat won't be a
Maserati on the water, but it will satisfy your 'peaceful flycasting'
requirement and still be paddleable.

Look at the WeNoNah website http://tinyurl.com/2p5pyn and look at
their 'Fisherman". Its made for fishing ONLY, so its properties are a
bit over the top, but notice that its flat lengthwise, flat in cross
section, and beamy as all get out. The Adirondack that Fortenberry
recommended is an excellent choice: it also is flat bottomed with no
rocker and quite beamy. The Boundary Water 17' is another good choice.

I think as long as you avoid boats with rocker greater than 1 or 1.5
inches, keep to boats with as flat a bottom as possible, and ones with
at least a 35 or 36" width, you'll be fine.

Your selection of the Quetico is not bad, but probably right on the
limit as far as rocker, width and length go. I don't know what the
hull shape is, but if its rounded at all, I'd avoid it.

Good luck, WEAR A LIFEJACKET.

--riverman

riverman wrote:
wrote:
...
I'm looking at a 17 footer that is stable, light and capable of being
a tandem OR a solo canoe. Have any of you had experience (or heard
good or bad) about the Souris River Canoes? I'm looking at the
"Quetico 17". ...

...
For the intermediate caster/paddler, then you will need to compromise
somewhere....something flat bottomed (so it won't tilt side to side),
with little rocker (so it won't twist around), fairly long, in the 17
foot range (anything longer is a bear to paddle, anything shorter is
skittish to stand in), and BEAMY (that means wide...makes it more
stable). A flat-bottomed, rockerless, beamy 17 foot boat won't be a
Maserati on the water, but it will satisfy your 'peaceful flycasting'
requirement and still be paddleable. ...

I agree with everything except the 17' length. A 17' tandem
is more canoe than I care to paddle solo, I wouldn't buy a
tandem canoe much over 16' for solo paddling/fishing. Souris
River makes nice boats and if you have to have a foreign-made
boat instead of a better quality boat made in Winona, Minnesota
USA then I'd go with the Quetico 16 instead of the Quetico 17.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Oct 15, 8:40 am, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
riverman wrote:

Ken Fortenberry

Do a google search of roff for Fortenberry and Riverman- they've
hashed this out before and I think there are some very detailed posts
floating around.

I used an Old Town Guide, 14'-7". It is a little too tippy to stand
in, but being tall and top heavy, I tend to move the center of gravity
too far above the water. My wife gets really nervous when I stand up.
I haven't tried it by myself - we usually go together, pack a picnic
lunch and make an excursion rather than just a fishing trip. I find
that a longer rod helps with line control while sitting - I usually
use a 9' nine or a 9' five, though I just got a 10' seven that I think
will work much better than either for largemouth and carp on a lake or
smallmouth on the Lower Delaware. She paddles in the back, I fish or
paddle in the front. It works out well. I have a clamp-on rod holder I
bought from L.L. Bean that I use to troll a streamer when we want to
canoe more than we want to fish. A tan and olive over grizzly olive
half-and-half, say #6 or #8 trolled through a riffle was very
productive this summer on a bright day in low water.

Steve

On Oct 15, 8:40 pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
riverman wrote:
wrote:
...
I'm looking at a 17 footer that is stable, light and capable of being
a tandem OR a solo canoe. Have any of you had experience (or heard
good or bad) about the Souris River Canoes? I'm looking at the
"Quetico 17". ...

...
For the intermediate caster/paddler, then you will need to compromise
somewhere....something flat bottomed (so it won't tilt side to side),
with little rocker (so it won't twist around), fairly long, in the 17
foot range (anything longer is a bear to paddle, anything shorter is
skittish to stand in), and BEAMY (that means wide...makes it more
stable). A flat-bottomed, rockerless, beamy 17 foot boat won't be a
Maserati on the water, but it will satisfy your 'peaceful flycasting'
requirement and still be paddleable. ...

I agree with everything except the 17' length. A 17' tandem
is more canoe than I care to paddle solo, I wouldn't buy a
tandem canoe much over 16' for solo paddling/fishing. Souris
River makes nice boats and if you have to have a foreign-made
boat instead of a better quality boat made in Winona, Minnesota
USA then I'd go with the Quetico 16 instead of the Quetico 17.

--
Ken Fortenberry- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, I agree that there's some discussion on the 16' vs 17' length to
be had. I find a 16' boat a tad on the crowded side for tandem
tripping, but a 17' is certainly a bit long for a solo boat (although
my first love was a Blue Hole 17A that I put a lot of solo miles on).
I think the OP should put a lot of thought into how much solo vs
tandem paddling he is truly planning to do, and with how much gear.

--riverman

On Oct 15, 10:36 am, riverman wrote:
On Oct 15, 8:40 pm, Ken Fortenberry



wrote:
riverman wrote:
wrote:
...
I'm looking at a 17 footer that is stable, light and capable of being
a tandem OR a solo canoe. Have any of you had experience (or heard
good or bad) about the Souris River Canoes? I'm looking at the
"Quetico 17". ...

...
For the intermediate caster/paddler, then you will need to compromise
somewhere....something flat bottomed (so it won't tilt side to side),
with little rocker (so it won't twist around), fairly long, in the 17
foot range (anything longer is a bear to paddle, anything shorter is
skittish to stand in), and BEAMY (that means wide...makes it more
stable). A flat-bottomed, rockerless, beamy 17 foot boat won't be a
Maserati on the water, but it will satisfy your 'peaceful flycasting'
requirement and still be paddleable. ...

I agree with everything except the 17' length. A 17' tandem
is more canoe than I care to paddle solo, I wouldn't buy a
tandem canoe much over 16' for solo paddling/fishing. Souris
River makes nice boats and if you have to have a foreign-made
boat instead of a better quality boat made in Winona, Minnesota
USA then I'd go with the Quetico 16 instead of the Quetico 17.

--
Ken Fortenberry- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, I agree that there's some discussion on the 16' vs 17' length to
be had. I find a 16' boat a tad on the crowded side for tandem
tripping, but a 17' is certainly a bit long for a solo boat (although
my first love was a Blue Hole 17A that I put a lot of solo miles on).
I think the OP should put a lot of thought into how much solo vs
tandem paddling he is truly planning to do, and with how much gear.

--riverman

Probably 75% of the time I'd be tandem. I wouldn't be hauling much
gear either. Most of the time (not all, but mostly) I'd be fishing
small ponds, lakes and rivers around here. There is one larger lake
that I would fish some (Ken it would be Lake Evergreen). Even on
vacation I wouldn't be tripping, but just fishing during the day. I do
want something light that I can easily carry in to the remote places
that I fish around here. I "get it" that the canoe would need to be a
very stable design, rather than one with a lot of rocker or one that
is meant for speed -- and not for fishing. My brother-in-law has a
Wenonah, so I will definitely consider going that route.

- Dave K.

riverman wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
I agree with everything except the 17' length. A 17' tandem
is more canoe than I care to paddle solo, I wouldn't buy a
tandem canoe much over 16' for solo paddling/fishing. ...

Yeah, I agree that there's some discussion on the 16' vs 17' length to
be had. I find a 16' boat a tad on the crowded side for tandem
tripping,

It depends on the size of the paddlers and the boat I guess.
My bow man (wife ;-), is 5'7" 135 lbs., Kipper the Hound is
70 lbs. and I'm 5'11" 220ish, we all fit into my Navigator 16
with room for a weekend's worth of gear. Anything longer than
a couple of days we paddle an 18'6" Wenonah Odyssey.

but a 17' is certainly a bit long for a solo boat (although
my first love was a Blue Hole 17A that I put a lot of solo miles on).

Well, a lot of high volume solo expedition boats and solo
performance boats are 17' or even longer but I'm talking
about trying to paddle a beamy 17' tandem solo and for me
that trick never works. Wasn't the Blue Hole a whitewater
boat ?

I think the OP should put a lot of thought into how much solo vs
tandem paddling he is truly planning to do, and with how much gear.

Agreed. Either that or adopt the Wayne Knight method of gear
shopping, that is, buy both ! ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Oct 16, 4:55 am, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
riverman wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
I agree with everything except the 17' length. A 17' tandem
is more canoe than I care to paddle solo, I wouldn't buy a
tandem canoe much over 16' for solo paddling/fishing. ...

Yeah, I agree that there's some discussion on the 16' vs 17' length to
be had. I find a 16' boat a tad on the crowded side for tandem
tripping,

It depends on the size of the paddlers and the boat I guess.
My bow man (wife ;-), is 5'7" 135 lbs., Kipper the Hound is
70 lbs. and I'm 5'11" 220ish, we all fit into my Navigator 16
with room for a weekend's worth of gear. Anything longer than
a couple of days we paddle an 18'6" Wenonah Odyssey.

We'd be good paddling partners. I'm 6'3" and 235, but I have varying
bow paddlers. When doing day trips or weekend trips, I use an Explorer
16 (solo or tandem). On longer trips, I like a river with a bit of
whitewater, so I like a shorter boat: 17 or 17'6 is about max. I like
an OT Tripper when I can get ahold of one.

When I guided, of course I tried to keep all perishables out of the
client boats, and also keep their boats light, so I paddled the BH
solo with hundreds of pounds of gear for weeks on end. Not very good
for snappy turns, but I learned to use the currents,and man could I
glide through almost anything while laying on a brace. I also could
use the sharp end of eddy lines to help with turns, etc, so I never
really 'muscled' it around as much as some would think. In any case,
I got extremely comfortable with a big heavy boat, and anything less
than 16 foot still feels a bit small and skittish to me. I also like
long skis; I'm a bit old school.

All this is past tense, of course. I recently gave away the BH, and my
fleet now consists of a 16' and 14' Explorer (and a Folboat Aleut). I
need to get out in the shorter canoe more, but its racked in Maine and
of course, I'm in HK.


but a 17' is certainly a bit long for a solo boat (although
my first love was a Blue Hole 17A that I put a lot of solo miles on).

Well, a lot of high volume solo expedition boats and solo
performance boats are 17' or even longer but I'm talking
about trying to paddle a beamy 17' tandem solo and for me
that trick never works.

I accept that, and being good at pushing around River Pigs isn't
necessarily Merit Badge material. But I was thinking of what might
work best for the OP: if he's a novice or intermediate canoist, and
interested in standing and casting while having a dry and peaceful
experience, I'd recommend that he lead toward the longer side of the
16'-17' debate. For you and me, the recommendation is quite different.

Wasn't the Blue Hole a whitewater
boat ?

Yeah, BITD (back in the day), it was one of the original ww boats. The
idea was to have a high volume, low-rocker, flat bottomed boat that
would ride up and over big waves. The current trend of course is high
rocker and good flare to knife into big waves and rock through them
while the flare kicks the bow wave aside.

The result is that the BH has a niche in big water...I've run Class
IVs in it (loaded) and come out dry. But there's a difference between
survival boating and playboating. I'm a tripper, not a playboater.

I think the OP should put a lot of thought into how much solo vs
tandem paddling he is truly planning to do, and with how much gear.

Agreed. Either that or adopt the Wayne Knight method of gear
shopping, that is, buy both ! ;-)


Always a good solution.

--riverman

On Oct 15, 8:40 am, Ken Fortenberry
I agree with everything except the 17' length. A 17' tandem
is more canoe than I care to paddle solo,

YMMV, but Ken's probably right on this one. Although I've never
fished out of it (not sure why not), I have an Old Town Discovery 174
that's stable as all hell. It's a barge to paddle, though.

It's a great "family" canoe, and if that's your primary usage or
excuse, it's a fine boat for the money; but as a solo craft, sheesh.
It's too beamy to paddle from amidships; but a bag 'o rocks in the
front seat works great.

Joe F.

"riverman" wrote in message
oups.com...
snip - look it up
Good luck, WEAR A LIFEJACKET.

--riverman

Ditto that. However, I'll disagree with some of what Ken and riverman say.
I *love* my Wenonah Solo+ for flyfishing. Not a great tandem boat (except
for my sons), but a totally awesome solo boat for flyfishing (I don't try to
stand up). The narrow beam makes casting to either side easy. The hull
shape lets the boat roll with your hips. Great to paddle - fast, stable,
tracks well.