Turning a fish upside down

Tom Nakashima wrote:
I've been watching the "New Fly Fisher" which broadcast Sunday
mornings. Yesterday I learned that if you turn a fish upside down
while they're in the water, they'll lose equilibrium and won't struggle.
Makes it easy to unhook and release them.
-tom



It works with trout, but (in my experience) with whitefish.

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rw wrote:
Tom Nakashima wrote:

I've been watching the "New Fly Fisher" which broadcast Sunday
mornings. Yesterday I learned that if you turn a fish upside down
while they're in the water, they'll lose equilibrium and won't
struggle. Makes it easy to unhook and release them.
-tom


It works with trout, but (in my experience) with whitefish.

Should be: NOT with whitefish.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"rw" wrote in message
...
rw wrote:
Tom Nakashima wrote:

I've been watching the "New Fly Fisher" which broadcast Sunday
mornings. Yesterday I learned that if you turn a fish upside down
while they're in the water, they'll lose equilibrium and won't struggle.
Makes it easy to unhook and release them.
-tom


It works with trout, but (in my experience) with whitefish.

Should be: NOT with whitefish.


I guess you know the question's coming...
Why not whitefish, are their octavo-lateralis system different than trout?
-tom

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in
:

Why not whitefish, are their octavo-lateralis system different than
trout?

So far as I can remember, both have auditory, linear acceleration,
rotational acceleration, and lateral line components. We used to be
taught, by the way, that lateral line was to hold fish steady in a current.
Best evidence these days, which is extremely different from where we were
15 years ago, seems to be that the lateral line is for hunting (vibration
localization), and not for orientation in a current. Bony fish have
perfectly good semicircular canal and otolith systems for help with
orientation.

I think it remains to be seen whether the octavolateralis system is
involved in this semi-paralytic response.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

On Dec 10, 3:04 pm, Scott Seidman wrote:

I think it remains to be seen whether the octavolateralis system is
involved in this semi-paralytic response.

Did you ever get that article written, Scott, or are you just going to
dribble it out to us here on ROFF?

:-)

Bill

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"Tom Nakashima" wrote in
:

Why not whitefish, are their octavo-lateralis system different than
trout?

So far as I can remember, both have auditory, linear acceleration,
rotational acceleration, and lateral line components. We used to be
taught, by the way, that lateral line was to hold fish steady in a
current.
Best evidence these days, which is extremely different from where we were
15 years ago, seems to be that the lateral line is for hunting (vibration
localization), and not for orientation in a current. Bony fish have
perfectly good semicircular canal and otolith systems for help with
orientation.

I think it remains to be seen whether the octavolateralis system is
involved in this semi-paralytic response.
Scott
Reverse name to reply

I was doing some research on lateral line, yes it seems they're used for
detection of vibration localization to sense movement. A good example
would be watching fish swim in schools when they dart in the same direction
and maintain a tight group.

I'm going to take a stab...
Sensitivity to sound differs among fish species. Probably the biggest factor
is how the inner ear reacts with the swim bladder. The swim bladder is the
gas filled sac which maintains buoyancy. Since fish relay on sound pressure
waves, I'm thinking, by turning a fish upside down it upsets how the brain
interprets the sound pressure and they become disoriented to a state of
docilely.
-tom

Tom Nakashima wrote:
"rw" wrote in message
...

rw wrote:

Tom Nakashima wrote:


I've been watching the "New Fly Fisher" which broadcast Sunday
mornings. Yesterday I learned that if you turn a fish upside down
while they're in the water, they'll lose equilibrium and won't struggle.
Makes it easy to unhook and release them.
-tom


It works with trout, but (in my experience) with whitefish.


Should be: NOT with whitefish.



I guess you know the question's coming...
Why not whitefish, are their octavo-lateralis system different than trout?
-tom

I don't know why. It just seems to be the case. In general, I find
whitefish to be far less cooperative than trout when it comes to
removing hooks.

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Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"rw" wrote


It works with trout, but (in my experience) with whitefish.

Should be: NOT with whitefish.




Whitefish get a bad rap, IMHO ( not here, rw, just in general ;-)

Two Whitey memories come to mind.

A.) Every year on a certain unnamed famous stream that feeds Hebgen G, in
a section little visited, the tricos bring tons of Whitefish up to feed on
top .... it's great fun but tough on the fly tier as removing trico spinner
patterns from the little whitefish mouths with forceps tears up my pattern
too damn quickly. I only do this once each year, if that on average, but
it is a day I look forward to as the year rolls round to August.

B.) On the Ranch section of the HFork down some from Millionaires Pool, 3
Japanese anglers took up stations and tried to fool some fish. They were
two males and a female. They fished a long time without success.

Then the female hooked a fish, one that pulled hard and kept her busy some
time. The male nearest her had visible drool running down his chin and I
don't think it was over her, rather over her HFork fish ( HF is very popular
with Japanese anglers, and many I met seem to approach it with near
religious zeal ).

As the fish neared the net, it became clear that it was a large Whitefish.

The painfully envious male angler now totally changed composure and started
pointing and chanting loudly so the other male would certainly hear. He
repeatedly shouted things that, to me, sounded like" Yoko mattsui napanuso
WHITEFISH nutsuimonaka !! " then laughed a loud, but distinctly un-genuine,
guffaw. He repeated this to the point that the female angler looked near
tears.

Several times on the Fork I've wished I spoke some Japanese, because I meet
some very nice people and would like to be able to share more easily. I
run into one angler each year and we struggle for an hour or more as he
shows me photos on his digital camera of fishing in his country and Fork
rainbows he has fooled ... he gave me a wonderful cut-wing Flav tie of his
own making and using wing material that I "think" he said was only available
in Japan. ... it was truly lovely.

BUT, this time I'd have given $50 to know how to say, in Japanese, " That
Whitefish is a lot nicer catch than anything you've gotten, asshole."

---- FWIW, ALL injured male egos, regardless of country of origin can be
disgusting to watch at work. ----- ( NOT something I learned today, but
still worth bitching about )


OH, OH, and 93) I once caught a HUGE Whitey out of the Big Wood near that
access by the RV park ... really huge, 30++ inches ... kinda cool on a #18
Brassie

Larry L typed:
"rw" wrote


It works with trout, but (in my experience) with whitefish.

Should be: NOT with whitefish.
Whitefish get a bad rap, IMHO ( not here, rw, just in general ;-)

Two Whitey memories come to mind.

Only one comes to mind for me:
"I'm gonna get me a shotgun and shoot all the whities I see
I'm gonna get me a shotgun and shoot all the whities I see
When I shoot all the whities I see, then whitey he won't bother me
I'm gonna get me a shotgun and shoot all the whities I see" - Garrett Morris
--
TL,
Tim
-------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Larry L wrote:


B.) On the Ranch section of the HFork down some from Millionaires Pool, 3
Japanese anglers took up stations and tried to fool some fish. They were
two males and a female. They fished a long time without success.

Then the female hooked a fish, one that pulled hard and kept her busy some
time. The male nearest her had visible drool running down his chin and I
don't think it was over her, rather over her HFork fish ( HF is very popular
with Japanese anglers, and many I met seem to approach it with near
religious zeal ).

As the fish neared the net, it became clear that it was a large Whitefish.

I've seen huge whitefish there, but I've never been able to hook one.
The Ranch section of Henry's Fork is one of the most difficult and
frustrating places I've ever fished.

OH, OH, and 93) I once caught a HUGE Whitey out of the Big Wood near that
access by the RV park ... really huge, 30++ inches ... kinda cool on a #18
Brassie

That's one of favorite accesses on the Big Wood.

There are some very large whitefish in the Salmon River upstream from
Stanley. I usually have no trouble filling my creel for the smoker. I'm
pretty sure I've eaten a state record from there.

Last year I was fishing for whitefish there and having no luck at all,
when I noticed regular splashy rises along the undercut far bank. I
figured they were trout, but I saw no bugs in the air. So I tied on the
default fly for that stretch -- an EHC -- and gave it a go. Ended up
catching several large whitefish. When I got them home and examined
their stomachs I found that they were feeding on some kind of winged ant
that must have been dropping into the river from a nest on the bank.

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Cut "to the chase" for my email address.