waterfloating

"Larry L" wrote in
:

One problem I have fishing from a personal watercraft is that some of
the energy intended to go into the cast is transferred instead to the
craft ( make a casting motion right now and feel how your butt swivels
and tries to rotate your chair to understand what I'm saying ) making
my "longest" casts shorter than on dry land ( wading )


Am I just doing everything 100% wrong ? Is there some tricky way to
minimize this?

.....Larry, I have fished out of inflatables for at least 10 yrs now and I
never noticed that it affected my casting. But then again, I usually fish
to the bank for smallmouth and maybe casting 20-25 feet at most.

Frank Sr.
....is it spring yet?

On Dec 29, 11:34 pm, Frank Church
wrote:
"Larry L" wrote :

One problem I have fishing from a personal watercraft is that some of
the energy intended to go into the cast is transferred instead to the
craft ( make a casting motion right now and feel how your butt swivels
and tries to rotate your chair to understand what I'm saying ) making
my "longest" casts shorter than on dry land ( wading )

Am I just doing everything 100% wrong ? Is there some tricky way to
minimize this?

....Larry, I have fished out of inflatables for at least 10 yrs now and I
never noticed that it affected my casting. But then again, I usually fish
to the bank for smallmouth and maybe casting 20-25 feet at most.

Frank Sr.
...is it spring yet?

If you only cast relatively short distances, and overhead, the problem
that Larry mentioned does not occur, or at least not to anything like
the same degree. If you are trying for distance, then the tendency is
to try and use the same technique you use on land, and with many
people this means twisting their bodies around. Unfortunately, this
results in the water craft revolving in the opposite direction to the
body, and ruins the cast in a number of ways The effect is not quite
as bad in a pontoon boat, but still appreciable.

If you learn to cast without twisting your body, then it improves your
casting, and also precludes the movement problems in a small water
craft.

The idea is to use the energy for the cast, not for moving the boat.
There will always be some reaction, but if the cast is in a straight
line over head, and the body does not twist, it is minimal.

For a long time, I used float tubes and pontoon boats regularly on the
Baltic, where it is often necessary to distance cast with
comparatively heavy gear. If you use the wrong technique, the action
of casting will twist the tube around while you are casting,
completely ruining your tracking, and any hope of a straight line
path, and thus the cast.

MC

Larry L wrote:
One problem I have fishing from a personal watercraft is that some of the
energy intended to go into the cast is transferred instead to the craft (
make a casting motion right now and feel how your butt swivels and tries to
rotate your chair to understand what I'm saying ) making my "longest" casts
shorter than on dry land ( wading )


Am I just doing everything 100% wrong ? Is there some tricky way to
minimize this?



My advice, Larry, for what it's worth, is to use your fins to stabilize
your orientation, if necessary.

Kick boats and belly boats can be infuriating in that way. Whenever you
change direction with your cast they will tend to rotate. It's
elementary physics. If you cast to the right the boat will rotate to the
left, and vice versa, no matter how perfectly you execute the cast.

Newton said it first: For every action there's an opposite and equal
reaction.

Counteract the rotation with your fins. The greater the change of
direction of the cast, the more effort is required with the fins. Small
changes in direction won't require much effort, if any at all.

Imagine as a worst case casting directly behind you.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Dec 30, 12:47 am, rw wrote:


Counteract the rotation with your fins. The greater the change of
direction of the cast, the more effort is required with the fins. Small
changes in direction won't require much effort, if any at all.

Imagine as a worst case casting directly behind you.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

That sounds plausible, and if you manage to coordinate your finning
with your casting it will also doubtless work, but I have never
managed it in my tubes ( belly-boats) . In my main pontoon boat, I
don´t use fins anyway, just the oars. Often I have been fishing in
very very cold water, and it is best to keep your legs out of it, as
otherwise you cant stay out long without freezing.

If you are trying to make large direction changes in a cast, then you
are going to get some twist anyway. I don´t know how to avoid that.

The energy concerned is always going to be transmitted to the boat, no
matter what you do, but you can minimise the effects.

TL
MC

Mike wrote:
On Dec 30, 12:47 am, rw wrote:



Counteract the rotation with your fins. The greater the change of
direction of the cast, the more effort is required with the fins. Small
changes in direction won't require much effort, if any at all.

Imagine as a worst case casting directly behind you.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.


That sounds plausible, and if you manage to coordinate your finning
with your casting it will also doubtless work, but I have never
managed it in my tubes ( belly-boats) . In my main pontoon boat, I
don´t use fins anyway, just the oars.

Well, that's the problem, Mike. You need fins. Oars won't do. No matter
how cold it is, you need fins. You have to put down your rod to use
oars. That's one reason I hate fishing from frigging canoes and kayaks.

A big advantage of a kickboat (oars and fins) vs. a belly boat is that
you can get your fins out of the water when you don't want them there,
like when it's really cold, or when you're trying to make time with the
oars.

Other than that, for me, they're in the water when I'm fishing.

And then there's the wind. Always the wind. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Dec 30, 1:15 am, rw wrote:
Mike wrote:
On Dec 30, 12:47 am, rw wrote:

Counteract the rotation with your fins. The greater the change of
direction of the cast, the more effort is required with the fins. Small
changes in direction won't require much effort, if any at all.

Imagine as a worst case casting directly behind you.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

That sounds plausible, and if you manage to coordinate your finning
with your casting it will also doubtless work, but I have never
managed it in my tubes ( belly-boats) . In my main pontoon boat, I
don´t use fins anyway, just the oars.

Well, that's the problem, Mike. You need fins. Oars won't do. No matter
how cold it is, you need fins. You have to put down your rod to use
oars. That's one reason I hate fishing from frigging canoes and kayaks.

A big advantage of a kickboat (oars and fins) vs. a belly boat is that
you can get your fins out of the water when you don't want them there,
like when it's really cold, or when you're trying to make time with the
oars.

Other than that, for me, they're in the water when I'm fishing.

And then there's the wind. Always the wind. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

You are right, and on a few big lakes I fish in spring and summer,
mainly for pike and perch, I would do that, but you can´t use fins
for long in Winter on the Baltic. I tried it a few times, and damn
near froze my feet off. I would not use a float tube in those
conditions anyway, it would be a bit suicidal. If anything happened,
you would not last long in that water, a life-jacket is more or less
useless at those temperatures. It will keep you afloat, but it wont
stop you dying very quickly of hypothermia. I know a couple of guys
who wear special survival suits, and I tried one once, but I just
couldn´t cast while wearing it. The life-jacket is more than enough of
a hindrance.

The pontoon boat keeps you clear of the freezing water, but you would
be dead just as quickly if you fell out of the boat etc. I had a
special safety belt on mine with a quick release, and I was never
usually very far from shore, or in relatively sheltered bays etc, and
even then only in more or less calm conditions.

In winter, you can´t usually stay out more than an hour or so anyway.
So you paddle out, fish for an hour, paddle back in, warm up for a
while, and then paddle out again and fish, until you have had
enough! Catching fish is usually quite easy, because there are a
lot of them at about the 6m mark in various places, but catching them
from the shore is well nigh impossible except under certain
conditions. Usually after a storm, during heavy overcast, or at
night.

TL
MC

With regard to the wind, that is a more or less permanent feature in
Winter on the Baltic, so what a few of us do is use it to our
advantage. As you quite rightly say, it is more or less pointless
trying to fish properly from a constantly moving boat, and the wind
will also blow you away pretty fast which could be very dangerous.
There are only a few pontooners on the Baltic in winter, and virtually
no float tubers. it is just too cold and dangerous for that.

Anyway, those of us who do pontoon ( did, in my case, I am getting too
old for that now) use a longish anchor rope ( say 30-40 meters at 6m
water depth). lower the anchor, pull it in with a reverse breakaway
knot, and then pay out the rope anchoring the boat by the stern
stanchion. ( you can see the anchor winder on my boat in the picture).
The wind blows you until the rope is more or less taut, and you
commence fishing. You do move about quite a lot, but it serves well
enough as a fishing platform. This also ensures you have the wind at
your back, making it easier to cast and fish, and you don´t ( seem to)
get so cold so quickly.

TL
MC

Something that occurred to me after my post (which happens to all of us
from time to time) regards what is IMO the single most frustrating
characteristic of belly boats and kick boats.

When you use your fins to orient the boat, you inevitably take yourself
farther away from where you want to cast. Your energy can't be converted
into rotation with perfect, or even close to perfect, efficiency. You
will cause some translational movement, and it will be away from where
you'd like it to be. The casts get longer and longer.

I've fished schools of risers, getting no takes at all, or maybe few,
and then had to turn around 180 degrees and fin or row back into the
action, usually putting them down. That sucks.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Dec 30, 1:03 am, Mike wrote:

Something else which may be of interest in this regard. On one of my
pontoon boats I made a "drop keel", which I lowered behind the boat.
It looked like a rudder, but was fixed. It did improve tracking the
boat, and it allowed some direction changing casts without twisting
the boat much at all, but it was a mess on, and something else to
transport, so I eventually gave up using it.

One other thing you can try, if it is possible where you fish, and is
not dangerous, is to use two anchors. Lower one anchor and pay out
rope until you are some way away from it, then lower the other anchor,
and pull up the first anchor rope until you are equidistant to both
anchors. You have to fix the ropes to either side of the boat somehow,
( I just looped mine around the rowlocks. This is a mess on, but it
gives you a relatively stable casting platform. Of course it is also a
mess on changing position. Also best not to use hook anchors for this,
it can be dangerous if they hook up solid on something. I used two
buckets filled with cement mostly.

TL
MC