![]() |
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
On Apr 13, 4:48*pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote: DaveS wrote: On Apr 13, 2:51 pm, Ken Fortenberry wrote: DaveS wrote: Ken Fortenberry wrote: Another side of the story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann...-lied-to-abo_b.... I am not sympathetic. They grab our merchant ships, we should kill em whenever we can. Hell yeah, kill all those cowardly mother****ers. I mean what a bunch of worthless girly men. The Japs come in with their trawlers and take all their fish illegally and what do those wimps do ? Nada. Not a goddamn thing. If they had any balls at all they'd build a long range bomber and an atomic bomb and nuke hell out of the ****in' Japs like real men. Hell, that's what *we* did and what's good enough for 'Murica is good enough for those Somali *******s. -- Ken Fortenberry There have been lots of mistakes in Somalia. The USAs most recent mistake was to pay the Ethiopians to invade and take down the emerging "Islamic Courts" government (using the term loosely) because we were backing another bunch of clowns further north who had no base of armed support. If we would have just let things happen we could have negotiated/bribed the Islamic Courts into taking out the pirates who were a minor nuisance at the time, and aided them in remounting a coast guard and fishing zone protection operation. The "pirates" are still a minor nuisance. It's only American hubris and American macho swaggering that elevated the targeting of an American cargo ship to a national security issue. Most reasonable folks agree that so long as the pirates don't harm anyone, and they haven't, it's just good sense to pay the pittance and move along. Unfortunately that option was not taken by the Bushies so we are where we are, and that is what we have to work with. It's just plain unacceptable to let the pirates stand in the way of all the food aid operations in East Africa. ... Give me a break. The "pirates", one of whom was all of 16 years old, had no idea what was on the cargo ship or under what flag it was flying. Is there more than a bit of hypocracy going on in regards to ripping off the fish? Ya You Betcha. And its not just the Japanese (easy with the J_p stuff please. I am a member of the JACL, and we just dedicated the internment memorial here). It is also the Spanish and those pirate fishing/whaling operations typically bankrolled with Norwegian money Yeah well, **** the Japs and the Spanish and the Norwegians and the Italian mafia too. The point being killing all Somalis whenever we have the chance isn't going to solve the underlying problem. Whats new. It also bugs me that all the cell phones used on the planet use minerals/metals mined and marketed thru warlords who have turned the Eastern Congo into the worlds worst blood bath and slave state for the last 10 years. Hello Nokia, Apple etc, etc etc. They all are doing business with zip degrees of separation from some of the worst *******s on the planet. I am waiting for the indignation, protests, and boycotts to start in the tech community with baited breath. I don't hear anything from Libs or Wingnuts on this outrage. Yeah well, start a new thread about US subsidized warlords in the Congo. This thread is about Somalia. -- Ken Fortenberry- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Well first I don't think I implied we should kill all Somalis, but I have no problem with going after those that would kill our citizens and attack our civilian merchant marine. Our right to that reaction is basic to our sovereignty as a nation. Obama was briefed something like 17 times on the situation, and authorized use of force to free the American twice. The Somali "Elders" we were negotiating with were not into releasing the Captain or turning over the kidnappers for law enforcement type action in Kenya, and the captors had already shot at the captain once.. You do know that the Indian, French and one other Navy has already had armed run-ins with these folks before, right? One hostage was killed recently. And second, on the Congo thing, maybe you are right. Dave Hang in there. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Caca snipped.
Arm every merchant vessel with a 50 cal. machine gun along with a qualified gunner. When the pirates come into the effective range of that .50 (about 2000 yards), a short burst should easily dissuade anyone from being a threat. You could also have another gunner with a 50 cal M107 (probably what the Seals used in rescuing our captain). If they insist, the gunner could cut the small craft in half with such a weapon and the M107 gunner could pick and choose the threats. Works for me. Leave the ships alone and the pirates can live as long as they want. Really simple when you think about it. And, there are plenty of mercenaries world-wide that would/could do the job. Dave |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
![]() "Dave LaCourse" wrote in message ... Caca snipped. Arm every merchant vessel with a 50 cal. machine gun along with a qualified gunner. When the pirates come into the effective range of that .50 (about 2000 yards), a short burst should easily dissuade anyone from being a threat. You could also have another gunner with a 50 cal M107 (probably what the Seals used in rescuing our captain). If they insist, the gunner could cut the small craft in half with such a weapon and the M107 gunner could pick and choose the threats. Works for me. Leave the ships alone and the pirates can live as long as they want. Really simple when you think about it. And, there are plenty of mercenaries world-wide that would/could do the job. Dave Have gun, will travel. Wire John. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
On Apr 13, 5:43*pm, Dave LaCourse wrote:
Caca snipped. Arm every merchant vessel with a 50 cal. machine gun along with a qualified gunner. *When the pirates come into the effective range of that .50 (about 2000 yards), a short burst should easily dissuade anyone from being a threat. *You could also have another gunner with a 50 cal M107 (probably what the Seals used in rescuing our captain). If they insist, the gunner could cut the small craft in half with such a weapon and the M107 gunner could pick and choose the threats. *Works for me. *Leave the ships alone and the pirates can live as long as they want. *Really simple when you think about it. And, there are plenty of mercenaries world-wide that would/could do the job. * Dave Dave, Given that ~ 20,000 ships annually pass through those waters and the pirates only got 111 ships last year (70 some so far this year), the economic costs (let alone the legal, moral, safety - if an oil tanker- and other considerations) of providing trained armed security and weaponry (at least 3 expensive - probably need 6 for very large ships - trained extra crew members + night vision goggles + the weapons themselves) for every ship plying those waters would exceed the money paid out in ransom. The piracy needs to be stopped but there are probably better ways to do it. Ken, As valid as the grievances that the Somalis have are, they cannot justify outright theft and extortion. When they travel 200 and more miles from their coast just to seek out their prey of merchant ships for the lucrative returns they provide, they cannot claim that they are protecting the integrity of their country or doing it because they are hungry. Reports I have read say that many of the pirates are building villas and buying luxury cars with the income from their piracy. If true, and I have little reason to doubt the reports, that's greed not hunger. BTW although the Somalian piracy is in the news - the problem is almost as bad around in the Malacca straits and other restricted waterways in SE Asia. Bob Weinberger Bob Weinberger |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
![]() |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
![]() |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
On Apr 13, 6:30*pm, wrote:
Dave, Given that ~ 20,000 ships annually pass through those waters and the pirates only got 111 ships last year (70 some so far this year), the economic costs (let alone the legal, moral, safety - if an oil tanker- *and other considerations) of providing trained armed security and weaponry (at least 3 expensive - probably need 6 for very large ships - trained extra crew members + night vision goggles + the weapons themselves) for every ship plying those waters would exceed the money paid out in ransom. *The piracy needs to be stopped but there are probably better ways to do it. Ken, *As valid as the grievances that the Somalis have are, they cannot justify outright theft and extortion. When they travel 200 and more miles from their coast just to seek out their prey of merchant ships for the lucrative returns they provide, they cannot claim that they are protecting the integrity of their country or doing it because they are hungry. *Reports I have read say that many of the pirates are building villas and buying luxury cars with the income from their piracy. *If true, and I have little reason to doubt the reports, that's greed not hunger. BTW although the Somalian piracy is in the news - the problem is almost as bad around in the Malacca straits and other restricted waterways in SE Asia. Bob Weinberger Bob Weinberger- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Picking up on what Bob said in the first paragraph. . . . The disruption is bigger and more significant than has thus far been acknowledged. First, Mombasa, down the coast in Kenya is the most important semi modern port in East Africa. We are dealing with a continuing harassment of one of the Worlds and certainly Africa's, main trade routes. Mombasa is THE main port for food aide, and a good portion of the commodities that Central and East Africa support themselves with. Second: You want some real ****? How about shredding the supply chain that feeds Mombasa and triggering a famine that spreads across Africa, with massive waves of hunger and instability driven migration. A disaster in short. And the kind of hunger disaster that has happened in scale before in modern history. It is simply not acceptable that some street gang-bangers-with-outboards get to threaten the other couple hundred millions of people in that part of Africa. Third: Certainly Somalia needs some form of government. And at this point just about any form of *******-on-a-camel centralized rule will do. I don't see that its our job to decide for them, shell out tons of money, or do anything on the ground but just let it happen. Even if its the "Islamic Courts" I don't give a ****. But what we need to do NOW for our own interests, and what we can do cheaply is cull some of the bad guys, the arsonists, the few hundred that are playing with matches on the African powder keg. This is why we have a Navy. Fourth: The fishing thing. Hey, its not us this time. There ARE other *******s in the World folks. In this Case Japan, Spain, Norway, and a few other are the rapacious interlopers on the Somali offshore resource. And its a problem in other places where they exploit weakness or corruption. Some aide to the ultra poor countries to buy/ train for better coast guard and resource protection might be a better aide buy than repeat food aide. But right now these guys are pirates who have gone far over the line. And think about it . . .right now they have lots of new boats, crews, a mother ship or two, weapons, excellent communications, and yet . . . are they protecting a Somali fishing fleet? Nope. Why? They are pirates. Dave Where is JR. He knows this part of the World, ditto Riverman? |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Arm every merchant vessel with a 50 cal. machine gun along with a qualified gunner. *Dave I guess you can argue anything......but the Somali pirates are pirates and I am sure not taking from the rich and giving to the poor. Wrong is wrong. Have to agree with Dave. Quite inexpensive given the alternative. Man's a sorry lot... Guy |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
![]() |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
On Apr 13, 11:06*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 19:28:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote: One or two guys, with a single heavy machine gun on a 500-plus foot ship with low freeboard. *Now, add into the equation that those one or two guys are hired guns. *What you have is a recipe for a total, complete cluster****. *If you are in favor of a armed response, this is not the way to go about it. *And huffingtonpost nonsense aside, these aren't farmers with pitchfolks, they are pirates with real weapons (regardless of whether or not some might have once been farmers/fishermen). *Let me ask you this - do you favor putting mercenaries in _your_ local bank - you know, the one where you and your family bank - with orders to open fire on any potential robbers? *If not, why not? HTH, R ... and it would then only be a matter of time before the guys in the villas bought some real weaponry and set a tanker ot two on fire from 5-10 miles away .... and then we'd escalate again .... and the military contractors would have yet another Business Opportunity to soak the taxpayer. Man's a sorry lot... Guy |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
FS: Robert Kline prints - Erotic mermaids, sea maidens & pirates | Jewelry by Yael | General Discussion | 0 | April 25th, 2008 10:48 PM |
Sea Shepherd Announces: Seal Defense Campaign 2008! Sea ShepherdCrew to Shift from the Southern Ice to the Northern Ice | [email protected] | UK Coarse Fishing | 2 | April 6th, 2008 08:41 AM |
in defense of Tim | rw | Fly Fishing | 17 | August 3rd, 2006 11:33 PM |
OT In Defense of Tofu | Ken Fortenberry | Fly Fishing | 149 | January 8th, 2004 03:36 AM |
OT Pirates and Nobels | Ken Fortenberry | Fly Fishing | 10 | October 14th, 2003 03:13 AM |