Bend Over, USA

"Wolfgang" wrote...
"Tim J." wrote...
"Greg Pavlov" wrote...
Frank Church wrote:

I just counted 86 alt.politics on my newsserver..

Gee, Frank, I just counted about 400 comp. groups
on *my* server, and these aren't even alt groups, but
that doesn't stop you from posting "geek" messages
here, does it ? And there have to be hundreds of
lonely hearts groups out in usenet land, but you're
still using this forum for your divorce stories, aren't
you ?

Sorry to step on any toes here, but I see the discussion of personal
matters
involving the roffian family (as dysfunctional as it is) to be a
very different
than a political post. YMMV.

Perhaps, but as you note, opinions do vary. Meanwhile, ANY
contribution to a political thread can be seen as a political
statement in its own right.....even one decrying political statements.
Moreover, "...this small vocal core of angry lefties" can hardly be
viewed as apolitical by any reasonable standard.

Agreed. I don't see political posts as wrong, but just in a different category
from posts about personal matters. I decided quite some time ago that making my
political views known here serves no purpose other than to aggravate ME, so I've
curbed the impulse.

It can hardly escape the notice of any careful reader that diatribes
against the presence of politics in this forum are almost always
prompted not by the inclusion of politics per se, but rather by the
exposition of the WRONG politics.

Boy, ain't it the truth! (Read: "Many would agree.")

It is also worth noting that the
vast majority of objections to politics in ROFF come from individuals
whose own participation clearly marks them as what are generally (and
for reasons that are patently ludicrous) known as "conservatives", and
that these objections typically surface when their authors have their
backs to the dialectical wall.

I've noticed the wall-stance fairly equally in terms of lefties/righties.

Oh, and this exposition will doubtless sorely tempt a few to label ITS
author as a "liberal". Those individuals should, of course, not be
included in anyone's list of careful readers.

Wolfgang
whose political philosophy has been clearly and unequivocally stated
on a number of occasions.

Honestly, I (who is not assuming to place himself on the "list of careful
readers") haven't figured out much about your political bent at all. I've come
to the conclusion that there's left, right, and Wolfgang. Good job! I admire the
political enigma.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

(Greg Pavlov) wrote in news:3fd72d29.173589168
@news.cis.dfn.de:

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 12:21:42 GMT, Frank Church
wrote:


I just counted 86 alt.politics on my newsserver..

Gee, Frank, I just counted about 400 comp. groups
on *my* server, and these aren't even alt groups, but
that doesn't stop you from posting "geek" messages
here, does it ? And there have to be hundreds of
lonely hearts groups out in usenet land, but you're
still using this forum for your divorce stories, aren't
you ?

....it is true that most all of us at one time or another have posted OT
about one thing or another, but your whining leftwing posts come on a
more or less regular basis. And no, I don't talk politics when fishing
with roffians or anyone else for that matter. Since this is an
international forum it must be boring as hell for our friends who aren't
US citizens. It's the surest way to create hard feelings and who needs
that ****? Except you and a few others that seem to thrive on discord. I
will stick around and you can enjoy your stay in my bozo bin. EOT.

Frank Church
...who is not advocating censorship, just take your political **** to the
proper forum.

Frank Church wrote in
9.11:

(Greg Pavlov) wrote in
news:3fd72d29.173589168 @news.cis.dfn.de:

...it is true that most all of us at one time or another have
posted OT about one thing or another, but your whining leftwing
posts come on a more or less regular basis. And no, I don't talk
politics when fishing with roffians or anyone else for that
matter. Since this is an international forum it must be boring
as hell for our friends who aren't US citizens. It's the surest
way to create hard feelings and who needs that ****? Except you
and a few others that seem to thrive on discord. I will stick
around and you can enjoy your stay in my bozo bin. EOT.

Frank Church
..who is not advocating censorship, just take your political
**** to the proper forum.


Full Moon!

;-)

C'mon Frank, the political rants are *mostly* boring and
uninteresting thats what delete/mark as read/plonk files are for.
As you yourself and a recent email correspondent astutely noted, it
is nigh on impossible to change the views of those who have their
minds made up. I may be wrong (interpreting others' motives is
always dodgy), but I don't think Greg's original post was trying to
do that ... he was just looking for someone to share a bush bashing
session with. As it turns out he has been largely unsuccessful in
this thread .

I say *mostly* because certain diabolical acts touch us all. Also,
reading some of the OT posts (even the political ones) of the
regular roffians, like greg's original above, do give some small
insight into the poster.

Of course I may well feel differently if it was an Aus. dominated
group with local politics poke its ugly head up constantly ...

Steve (fair dinkum furriner, relatively speaking

"Stephen Welsh" wrote in message
...
Frank Church wrote in
9.11:

....Of course I may well feel differently if it was an Aus.
dominated
group with local politics poke its ugly head up constantly ...

Is it possible I am the only person in this group sorely disappointed
that we aren't occasionally treated to internecine political squabbles
from other places? It is a very sad thing to contemplate that so few
are interested in the doings of the quaint folk in far away lands.

Steve (fair dinkum furriner, relatively speaking

Well sure, but then, who ain't?

Wolfgang

"Frank Church" wrote in message
9.11...
(Greg Pavlov) wrote in news:3fd72d29.173589168
Snip Snip
"Since this is an
international forum it must be boring as hell for our friends who aren't
US citizens. It's the surest way to create hard feelings and who needs
that ****? Except you and a few others that seem to thrive on discord. I
will stick around and you can enjoy your stay in my bozo bin. EOT.

Frank Church
..who is not advocating censorship, just take your political **** to the
proper forum.

Frank,
With all due respect, the **** that Greg is referring to is not "politics" .
.. . its massive corruption at the highest levels of our government and is
treason or something very close to it. Secondly, I believe you are fairly
well disconnected if you believe that the mismanagement of US foreign
relations is not of concern internationally. Few other national governments,
and fewer foreign populations support the present Cowboy policies of our
un-elected government.

These are painful times for US patriots: The right-wing has lost all moral,
economic, or patriotic credibility. The left wing is immobilized by general
goofiness and the all out assault on civil liberties, and the center is
embarrassed that it was conned by an inept clown, who parroted all the
feel-good slogans. The corruption, the stealing, the betrayal of troops in
the field, the posturing of White House martinets, IS outrageous.

Our country will find its moral compass again and things will get corrected.
However, to complain right now that the occasional screams of outrage are
uncomfortable is akin to bitching about the smoke from a neighbor's burning
house.

Dave

"David Snedeker" wrote in
:

My last post to anyone on this cluster****... my initial post was to
complain about turning roff into his private propaganda medium since there
are far more welcoming venues to post that stuff. It seems Muskie has taken
a break or crawled back under a rock someplace and it would be nice to get
away from this political blather. I hear it everyday on the radio, and see
it on the evening news and it would be nice to come to a place I enjoy, and
is very much a part of my life and not have to filter out or delete this
stuff. Base on the replies, I am in the minority on that score so I will
leave it at that. I still maintain that an OT post
in this forum is acceptable, those that don't pit people against one
another as these political rants always do. They have no place here.

Frank Church

"Frank Church" wrote in message
9.11...
(Greg Pavlov) wrote in news:3fd72d29.173589168
?

...it is true that most all of us at one time or another have posted OT
about one thing or another, but your whining leftwing posts come on a
more or less regular basis.

Frank,
A question about your logic Frank . . . why is complaining about corruption
a "whining leftwing post(s)"? Would a post praising corruption be a
"forthright rightwing post"? How about a post betraying the identity of an
American intelligence agent? Would that be a "patriotic rightwing post"?

Dave
Too old to follow the shapeshifters into hell

Frank Church,swapmeister extraordinaire,
notes:
.who is not advocating censorship, just take your political **** to the
proper forum.

I dunno, from what I have seen, and I've been here for a while, this IS the
proper forum, so long as OT, political: or the like is preceding the post. If
you don't want to read it, don't. If you get ****ed off, that's ok
too. If people leave, chalk it up to Darwinian evolution. C'est la vie!
Tom

"Tim J." wrote in message
...

"Wolfgang" wrote...


Wolfgang
whose political philosophy has been clearly and unequivocally
stated
on a number of occasions.

Honestly, I (who is not assuming to place himself on the "list of
careful
readers") haven't figured out much about your political bent at all.
I've come
to the conclusion that there's left, right, and Wolfgang. Good job!
I admire the
political enigma.

It was never my intention to be enigmatic......well, not about this
anyway. Quite simply, I'm an anarchist. However, as a long time
observer of political processes (and some time participant), I came to
the realization decades ago that very few people are interested in
trying anarchy and, as anarchy obviously requires near universal
acceptance, it ain't gonna happen. So, I live with the political
system we have in place, reserving the right to comment periodically
on the antics of the greedy and murderous assholes who run it, and the
even greedier and more murderous vapid assholes who lend their support
to one insufferable faction or another, all the while trying
desperately to justify their rapaciousness and boundless misanthropy.

Simple, no?

Wolfgang
who is all atwitter with anticipation over which fool of a liar will
step up to the plate first.

"Wolfgang" wrote...
snip
Wolfgang
who is all atwitter with anticipation over which fool of a liar will
step up to the plate first.

I read that challenge as:
"You're so vain, I bet you think this song is about you. Don't you?"


--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj