what WF3 line should I buy?

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 17:28:23 -0600, Willi wrote:



Peter Charles wrote:

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 19:47:02 +0300, Jarmo Hurri
wrote:



Good point. What we will soon need is some fanatic who will actually
weigh new lines and publish the results on a web page for
comparison. Pretty much insane - we already had the standard.

I think that my next new line will be one of the old 444's - just to
support lines with known ratings...



No sympathy from this corner -- if you think regular lines are screwed
up, you should try spey lines.

One popular West Coast light spey rod casts both a Rio Windcutter 5/6
and a Hardy Mach 1 8/9 lines with equal ease as both lines weight
about the same!!!

It's chaos . . .

That sucks! When the line makers abandon the standard, you have to buy
or try out a bunch of lines to find what's going to work for you. I'm
going to buy those lines that still rate their lines by the standard.
Hope at least some still stay that way.

Willi


With spey lines, there never has been a standard -- they're working on
it now.

I've produced some charts to help this along. Since not all of line
behind the rod is used to load it in a spey cast, that portion of the
line used in the load, I've called "casting weight". I've suggested
to the line makers that lines be rated according to their casting
weight, based on an arbitrary standardized D-Loop. It's had a
reasonable reception from SA so we'll see where we go from here.

In case you're interested. It's dry stuff but it would useful for
anyone interestied in spey casting. Incidentally, spey casts can be
done with any spey rod.

http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...tingweight.xls
http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...texplained.pdf
http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...eightmodel.pdf
http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...weightuses.pdf
http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...htvariance.xls

Peter

"Willi" wrote in message
...


Peter Charles wrote:

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 19:47:02 +0300, Jarmo Hurri
wrote:



Good point. What we will soon need is some fanatic who will actually
weigh new lines and publish the results on a web page for
comparison. Pretty much insane - we already had the standard.

I think that my next new line will be one of the old 444's - just to
support lines with known ratings...



No sympathy from this corner -- if you think regular lines are screwed
up, you should try spey lines.

One popular West Coast light spey rod casts both a Rio Windcutter 5/6
and a Hardy Mach 1 8/9 lines with equal ease as both lines weight
about the same!!!

It's chaos . . .

That sucks! When the line makers abandon the standard, you have to buy
or try out a bunch of lines to find what's going to work for you. I'm
going to buy those lines that still rate their lines by the standard.
Hope at least some still stay that way.

Um......I don't suppose it has occurred to anyone that line standards don't
mean **** if they aren't matched to stringent rod standards? Anybody here
ever tried to cast identical rods matched with identical reels and identical
lines side by side? And, I don't suppose it has ever occurred to anyone
that line standards based on gross weight of the first thirty feet......or
whatever.....don't mean **** unless the weight is distributed EXACTLY the
same in ALL of those lines?

Here's a little experiment you can do at home:

Take two identical rods, two identical reels, and two identical lines.
Spool up the lines and attach the reels to the rods. Thread the lines
through the guides. Now, attach a small weight......say, a tiny split
shot.....to the end of one of the lines. Take an identical weight and
attach it to the other line, about fifteen feet from the end. Remember now,
the lines are identical. Thus, by attaching the two identical weights you
have in NO way changed the difference in weight between the first thirty
feet of the two lines......they are STILL identical.

O.k., now go outside and cast both rods with an identical length of line out
above the tip top. Try a whole bunch of different lengths. Here's what's
going to happen.....no matter what length of line you have out on the two
rods (assuming it is the same for both), they will NEVER cast the same.

So far, so good.

Now, get 37 five weight rods.....all of them different makes and/or models
from one another. Cast all of them with the same reel and line......pick
whatever weight line is handy.....it doesn't make a damned bit of
difference. O.k. Done? Surprised? Why? You shouldn't be.

Sophistry, it would appear, still isn't an exact science.

Wolfgang

Peter Charles wrote:

No sympathy from this corner -- if you think regular lines are screwed
up, you should try spey lines.

One popular West Coast light spey rod casts both a Rio Windcutter 5/6
and a Hardy Mach 1 8/9 lines with equal ease as both lines weight
about the same!!!

It's chaos . . .

Yeah, every time I take it into my head to quit just thinking about
going spey and actually buying something, I look at the Spey Clave site,
and after an hour or so my head starts spinning from all the rod/line
combinations, so I revert to rumination mode.....

Someone just posted these links on Westfly -- tables with Rio's and SA's
spey line-to-rod matchups.

http://www.rioproducts.com/pages/speyrecs.asp
http://www.flyfishusa.com/lines/mast...atability.html

Are these useful in your opinion? Maybe *this* is the future....

JR

In article , JR wrote:

Salmo Bytes wrote:

"William H.M. Wood" wrote in message

snipped

What would be a good WF 3?

snipped


One of the best examples of how the industry is f***ing up the sport in
order to sell more stuff is the line manufacturers' screwing with line
weights (i.e., producing lines whose first 30 ft is not standard). A
very good summary was put together by Chuck Stranahan (Caddis Variant)
in his posts on this thread on the VFS forum:

http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=208385

JR

That may well be true JR (and I'll read the article later) but the
Cortland Quiet Taper WF3F I use has been a very good small stream line
that has a much shorter forward taper than most. That being said I
bought it knowing that after talking to the Cortland rep so there was
no false advertising involved. I don't think it roll casts as well as a
DT but it handles any wind and larger flies better than others I've
tried.

Allen

JR wrote:



One of the best examples of how the industry is f***ing up the sport in
order to sell more stuff is the line manufacturers' screwing with line
weights (i.e., producing lines whose first 30 ft is not standard). A
very good summary was put together by Chuck Stranahan (Caddis Variant)
in his posts on this thread on the VFS forum:


My chief gripe about lines too.

Willi