Rapid River article

irate (Dave LaCourse) wrote in
:

Flyfish writes:

Well my latest Orvis newsletter came in yesterday with a "nice" little
article pimping for restoration money that claims "the best brook
trout fishery" is the rapid.

That will go a long way to lowering the pressure. Idiots.

This week-end is the great bass tournament at Pond in the River. The
fish and game folks told me there would be 40 people fishing the Pond
in hopes of getting rid of some of the bass. They will be lucky if
they catch 40 bass total. The best way to rid the river of bass is to
turn it into a cold water fishery instead of the warm water one it now
is. FPL's total mismanagement of the water flow is part of the
problem. The bass have been in Umbagog since 1984 and have only
recently become a problem. The Richardsons were overflowing with
water in early winter, but instead of bleeding it off normally, they
opened uf the dam and lowered the lake by 7 feet. It is about 5 feet
low right now and the 390 cfs remains. If you call TU and speak to
the Maine bigwigs, you will think you are talking to FPL's CEO.

TU in Maine has lost their statewide focus. They are totally focused on
Shawmut and their "world class" brown trout tailwater. Hardly surprising
since the Kennebec Valley TU took credit for the Edwards dam removal
(despite opposing it originally) that the Maine TU is dominated by
Kennebec Valley after this "stunning" success. TU is kissing FPL's ass
because they want fish ladders on all of FPL's dams on the Kennebec
(which is all the dams I believe). FPL has played the political game well
on the ladders and are likely to get the law changed so they don't
"have" to remove the dam on the Sebasticook in Winslow. FPL said they
were going to breach that dam rather than put a ladder in because it's
too expensive. This caused local outrage and there is now an effort to
"exempt" certain dams from the need for ladders. I expect that FPL will
get key exemptions on the Kennebec which negate the need for ladders
upstream. It worked with the Edwards dam for over 1/2 a century. This
will take at least a decade to play out, and TU will have been their
unwitting partner in not installing the ladders, all because they think
they're going to have atlantic salmon runs of a million fish in 30 years.
What they're really going to have is a great northern pike and smallmouth
fishery.

The bass tourney is just more of their fantasy. You will not clean the
smallmouth out by killing a few. In fact, I do not believe you can clean
the smallmouth out, they do quite well in coldwater elsewhere in the
State.

Also, if the flow is 390 cfs (like it has been since May 14), the
river is easy to fish and the locals flock in. Put the flow at 900
and the fishing pressure is lowered because the "catching" is harder.
Harry (the dam keeper and local poll taker for fish and game) counted
51 people on the river on Memorial Day, from Cedar Stump all the way
to Upper Dam. Sounds like alot of pressure, but it was easy to find a
place to fish.

Haven't been this year. My guide buddy tells me it's a zoo on weekends.

I've heard from a number of people that the Lower Dam structure will
be removed this August. The state fears that if it collapses into the
river below the dam, it will be a negative impact on the brookie
spawning beds. So, if you do not have some pictures of it, best to
take a few now before it becomes history.
Too bad, really. They will leave the wooden shoots and rock
structures.

Sad to hear that. I did get some nice shots last fall.

Also, the condo prolem is dead - or so I've heard. They can't find a
way to get the people in except by boat. However, two cabins *will*
be built on Rifle Point between the cove and the dam. Even more
pressure, but not as bad as it would have been with twelve condos.
Dave

Hadn't heard the condos were dead, but they'll be back in a year or two
bigger and better wait and see. Someone decided that the camps were more
important to build first. Someone at FPL probably.

Flyfish

Flyfish writes:

Hadn't heard the condos were dead, but they'll be back in a year or two
bigger and better wait and see. Someone decided that the camps were more
important to build first. Someone at FPL probably.

Three Islands won't allow the traffic on their access road, nor access from
the south via Black Cat Road. Only way in is by boat. There isn't enough
parking at the Oxford public parking at South Arm, so I don't see the condos
coming in for awhile, anyway. They will eventually find a way, and TU will
help them. *******s!
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

"Flyfish" wrote in message
...
irate (Dave LaCourse) wrote in
:

Flyfish writes:

Well my latest Orvis newsletter came in yesterday with a "nice" little
article pimping for restoration money that claims "the best brook
trout fishery" is the rapid.

That will go a long way to lowering the pressure. Idiots.

This week-end is the great bass tournament at Pond in the River. The
fish and game folks told me there would be 40 people fishing the Pond
in hopes of getting rid of some of the bass. They will be lucky if
they catch 40 bass total. The best way to rid the river of bass is to
turn it into a cold water fishery instead of the warm water one it now
is. FPL's total mismanagement of the water flow is part of the
problem. The bass have been in Umbagog since 1984 and have only
recently become a problem. The Richardsons were overflowing with
water in early winter, but instead of bleeding it off normally, they
opened uf the dam and lowered the lake by 7 feet. It is about 5 feet
low right now and the 390 cfs remains. If you call TU and speak to
the Maine bigwigs, you will think you are talking to FPL's CEO.

TU in Maine has lost their statewide focus. They are totally focused on
Shawmut and their "world class" brown trout tailwater. Hardly surprising
since the Kennebec Valley TU took credit for the Edwards dam removal
(despite opposing it originally) that the Maine TU is dominated by
Kennebec Valley after this "stunning" success. TU is kissing FPL's ass
because they want fish ladders on all of FPL's dams on the Kennebec
(which is all the dams I believe). FPL has played the political game well
on the ladders and are likely to get the law changed so they don't
"have" to remove the dam on the Sebasticook in Winslow. FPL said they
were going to breach that dam rather than put a ladder in because it's
too expensive. This caused local outrage and there is now an effort to
"exempt" certain dams from the need for ladders. I expect that FPL will
get key exemptions on the Kennebec which negate the need for ladders
upstream. It worked with the Edwards dam for over 1/2 a century. This
will take at least a decade to play out, and TU will have been their
unwitting partner in not installing the ladders, all because they think
they're going to have atlantic salmon runs of a million fish in 30 years.
What they're really going to have is a great northern pike and smallmouth
fishery.

The bass tourney is just more of their fantasy. You will not clean the
smallmouth out by killing a few. In fact, I do not believe you can clean
the smallmouth out, they do quite well in coldwater elsewhere in the
State.

Also, if the flow is 390 cfs (like it has been since May 14), the
river is easy to fish and the locals flock in. Put the flow at 900
and the fishing pressure is lowered because the "catching" is harder.
Harry (the dam keeper and local poll taker for fish and game) counted
51 people on the river on Memorial Day, from Cedar Stump all the way
to Upper Dam. Sounds like alot of pressure, but it was easy to find a
place to fish.

Haven't been this year. My guide buddy tells me it's a zoo on weekends.

I've heard from a number of people that the Lower Dam structure will
be removed this August. The state fears that if it collapses into the
river below the dam, it will be a negative impact on the brookie
spawning beds. So, if you do not have some pictures of it, best to
take a few now before it becomes history.
Too bad, really. They will leave the wooden shoots and rock
structures.

Sad to hear that. I did get some nice shots last fall.

Also, the condo prolem is dead - or so I've heard. They can't find a
way to get the people in except by boat. However, two cabins *will*
be built on Rifle Point between the cove and the dam. Even more
pressure, but not as bad as it would have been with twelve condos.
Dave

Hadn't heard the condos were dead, but they'll be back in a year or two
bigger and better wait and see. Someone decided that the camps were more
important to build first. Someone at FPL probably.

Flyfish


Flyfish is completely right. We have watched TU's silly games here for way
long. TU will be whining hard when it comes time for the fish ladder
that will let the stripers into their golden playground at Shawmut. THEN
they
will suddenly want a ladder *with inspection/sorting* to keep the stripers
out,
else they loose their playground in about a year, like we did the trout
fishery on
the Kennebec from Waterville to Augusta when they took Edwards out.

People with a cause but no clue are extremely dangerous to themselves
and others, and those folks are sure clueless, especially the " Saviours of
the
Kennebec Atlantic Salmon" (of which there may actually be two , hybidized
with stocked landlocks).

As to condo's, Two camps will lead to condo's. Its the foot in the door
thing.
Thats simply the way things are done here in Maine, one weasel-a-way at a
time.
Once those are there it will only be a matter of time. People who can afford
them will also be able to afford a 20 minute float plane ride to get to
them, and
hiring a boat once a month to come in with a load of propane for the
generators.
Enough money will swing a overland right of way sooner or later.


--
{{ MudFish{('
"Careful with that Axe Eugene."

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 07:36:31 -0400, "Mudfish\(Co30\)"
wrote:

Flyfish is completely right. We have watched TU's silly games here for way
long. TU will be whining hard when it comes time for the fish ladder
that will let the stripers into their golden playground at Shawmut. THEN
they will suddenly want a ladder *with inspection/sorting* to keep the stripers
out, else they loose their playground in about a year, like we did the trout
fishery on the Kennebec from Waterville to Augusta when they took Edwards out.

People with a cause but no clue are extremely dangerous to themselves
and others, and those folks are sure clueless, especially the " Saviours of
the Kennebec Atlantic Salmon" (of which there may actually be two , hybidized
with stocked landlocks).

As to condo's, Two camps will lead to condo's. Its the foot in the door
thing. Thats simply the way things are done here in Maine, one weasel-a-way at a
time. Once those are there it will only be a matter of time. People who can afford
them will also be able to afford a 20 minute float plane ride to get to
them, and hiring a boat once a month to come in with a load of propane for the
generators.
Enough money will swing a overland right of way sooner or later.

Geeze, Ed! First post for you in - what, years? - and you're just a barrel of
laughs...But, between you and me, I'm waiting for the guided float trips next.

Speaking of float trips: ya gotta take a float using Dave's new toys, they're
a blast!

/daytripper (Maybe even take Dave for a drag behind your jet boat ;-)

just a quick note on the bass event on PIR: it was NOT a TU event; the
main sponsor and organizer was www.flyfishinginmaine.com, essentially
a board very similar to this, with just as diverse a group of members.
FFIM pulled together TU, FFIM, SAM (sportsman's alliance of
maine....essentially the hook & cook, bullet & spin crowd), Maine
IF&W, the Rangeley Region Guides and Sportsman's Association and
Rangeley Lakes Heritage Trust. 35+ fisherman harvested 85 bass under
very windy conditions. All bass were taken by IF&W biologists to do
scale sampling, aging, egg sampling, etc to further understand the
Rapid bass issue. Other issues with the Rapid aside, this was a
monumental occasion. While 85 bass may be a drop in the bucket, for
once diverse sporting groups in Maine came together with a common
goal, working for the common good, rather than fighting for their own
interests. A problem exists, and many folks are finally stepping up to
do something about it, rather than watching it slide by the wayside.
Many other problems exist within the state of maine; your TU
complaints are valid; i would personally like to see them establish a
sub-group to handle the education of young people and return the main
focus of the group to protection and restoration of Maine's coldwater
fisheries (not that education isn't important, but it seems to have
become the main focus). TU Maine needs to take a more active,
agressive approach IMHO. I also am not sure restoration of Atlantic
Salmon is possible in Maine with so many other limiting factors; we
can't even get paper companies on the Kennebec & Andro to moderately
raise dissolved 02 content (that was shot down recently) to simply
imrove the viability of holdover stocked trout, how can we expect to
restore AS. I digress, however. The Bass Event was a success on the
Rapid; we generated positive publicity to the issue, a diverse groups
of folks came together to help protect a valued resource, and at the
end of Saturday night's conclave festivities, Don Palmer, head of the
Save the Rapid coalition, was presented with a check for over $7000.
to help out Maine's most historic fishery. Not bad out of a bunch of
knuckleheads who post on a Maine fly fishing website, myself included.

Not disagreeing or agreeing with your views on Maine TU, FPL,
development (don't get me started on Plum Creek, they are in the
process of destroying the Roach fishery as we speak), but don't
discount this past weekend's actions. Don't view it as a solution, but
a beggining to helping out one of maine's most treasured resources,
and perhaps a start at helping them all.

"tim_s" wrote

.. 35+ fisherman harvested 85 bass under
very windy conditions. All bass were taken by IF&W biologists to do
scale sampling, aging, egg sampling, etc to further understand the
Rapid bass issue. Other issues with the Rapid aside, this was a
monumental occasion. While 85 bass may be a drop in the bucket, for
once diverse sporting groups in Maine came together with a common
goal, working for the common good, rather than fighting for their own
interests. A problem exists, and many folks are finally stepping up to
do something about it, rather than watching it slide by the wayside.

\ i'm sorry, but anyone who has ever caught a smallie the same length as
a trout or landlocked salmon will tell you that he *loves* to catch
smallmouth bass. what's the big deal?

wayno

"Wayne Harrison" wrote in message
. com...

"tim_s" wrote

. 35+ fisherman harvested 85 bass under
very windy conditions. All bass were taken by IF&W biologists to do
scale sampling, aging, egg sampling, etc to further understand the
Rapid bass issue. Other issues with the Rapid aside, this was a
monumental occasion. While 85 bass may be a drop in the bucket, for
once diverse sporting groups in Maine came together with a common
goal, working for the common good, rather than fighting for their own
interests. A problem exists, and many folks are finally stepping up to
do something about it, rather than watching it slide by the wayside.

\ i'm sorry, but anyone who has ever caught a smallie the same length
as
a trout or landlocked salmon will tell you that he *loves* to catch
smallmouth bass. what's the big deal?

Still, ya gotta love that egalité, fraternité, common good ****. It ain't
every day that the vast majority of humanity that is trout fans speak with a
single voice.

Wolfgang

wayno writes:

i'm sorry, but anyone who has ever caught a smallie the same length as
a trout or landlocked salmon will tell you that he *loves* to catch
smallmouth bass. what's the big deal?

I can't believe you don't know. Bass are a warm water fish and will eat a
fishery to death of all its trout/salman. The Rapid *was* a cold water fishery
without bass. They were illegally introduced to Umbagog in the mid 80s. Maine
has a problem with Bubbuhs who think that bass and pike are more important than
the native fish. Nothing wrong with fishing for bass using any rig you want,
but there is a problem when you try to protect one of the greatest Brook Trout
streams in the country and some asshole introduces bass. You have your
unspoiled Hazel. I have my Rapid which is quickly becoming spoiled. Imagine
bass and pike in Hazel eating all those rainbows and browns. Would you stand
for it? Fish for the bass instead?
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
wayno writes:

i'm sorry, but anyone who has ever caught a smallie the same length as
a trout or landlocked salmon will tell you that he *loves* to catch
smallmouth bass. what's the big deal?

I can't believe you don't know. Bass are a warm water fish and will eat a
fishery to death of all its trout/salman. The Rapid *was* a cold water
fishery
without bass. They were illegally introduced to Umbagog in the mid 80s.
Maine
has a problem with Bubbuhs who think that bass and pike are more important
than
the native fish. Nothing wrong with fishing for bass using any rig you
want,
but there is a problem when you try to protect one of the greatest Brook
Trout
streams in the country and some asshole introduces bass. You have your
unspoiled Hazel. I have my Rapid which is quickly becoming spoiled.
Imagine
bass and pike in Hazel eating all those rainbows and browns. Would you
stand
for it? Fish for the bass instead?
Dave

Wanna restore North America to a pristine state? Well, you could start by
getting your murderous fat white evil welfare ass off of it.

Oh, and lest anyone should feign shock over the simple truth, allow me to
point out that:

A: Dave has explicitly stated support for an illegal action in which a lot
of people's grandchildren have been sent to occupy another sovereign nation
and in the process kill thousands of the grandchildren of many thousands of
other people. Now, I'm no legal expert, but I'm fairly certain that here in
the US, any willful and premeditated illegal action with a high probability
of mortality among the victims and which indisputably results in such
mortality is murder.

B: Dave is most certainly fat. I know.....I've met him.

C: Dave is most certainly white (in the vernacular sense). I know.....I've
met him.

D: Dave has assured me (as well as an individual who once wished him simply
"Peace", and to whom he responded with a hearty "**** your peace") that
human beings are inherently evil. Dave is, to a moral certainty, human.
Ergo, Dave is evil. Incidentally, it necessarily follows that
grandchildren, too, are evil.

E. Dave has been on welfare for virtually all of his adult life.

F: Dave wishes for things to be the way they were.

So, who's got a problem with that?

Wolfgang

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
wayno writes:

i'm sorry, but anyone who has ever caught a smallie the same length as
a trout or landlocked salmon will tell you that he *loves* to catch
smallmouth bass. what's the big deal?

I can't believe you don't know. Bass are a warm water fish and will eat a
fishery to death of all its trout/salman. The Rapid *was* a cold water
fishery
without bass. They were illegally introduced to Umbagog in the mid 80s.
Maine
has a problem with Bubbuhs who think that bass and pike are more important
than
the native fish.

truth is, louie, i didn't realize that smallmouth bass and pike weren't
"native" to maine.

Nothing wrong with fishing for bass using any rig you want,
but there is a problem when you try to protect one of the greatest Brook
Trout
streams in the country and some asshole introduces bass.

hey, i ain't trying to be combative; just trying to understand. am i
wrong by surmising that if the water is colder than the smallies can handle,
they won't survive, or at least they wouldn't become the dominant species.
thus, it would appear that the villain here is whoever is responsible for
the change in water temp, not ol bubba...

You have your
unspoiled Hazel.

you know, there has been (still may be) considerable rumblings about
taking all the rainbows and browns out of hazel and returning it to its
native state--nothing but brookies. if i were four or five years old, i
might not mind that idea coming to fruition. however, it would take longer
to develop than i likely have to fish, and i am too selfish to lose my time
there.

I have my Rapid which is quickly becoming spoiled. Imagine
bass and pike in Hazel eating all those rainbows and browns. Would you
stand
for it?

well, no doubt i would be ****ed. still, that is a very unlikely
scenario, since there is nothing that anyone could do to raise (or lower)
the water temp in hazel. there are plenty of bass and pike around the mouth
of hazel, btw. but i think my response to any sort of undesirable change
would be to look up a couple of my politically influential republican
friends (that *is* possible, you know) and set them loose on the local
congressman. far more effective than having a "fish in", imho.


Fish for the bass instead?

if they were in there, their asses would be fished for...

yfitons
wayno