How Much Responsibility...

In article 3Rtvd.3341$Z%1.3214@trnddc03,
"B J Conner" wrote:

"George Cleveland" wrote in message
...
does Orvis have in rectifying this situation?


http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...cle/0,1299,DRM
N_85_3383209,00.html


Some, none or the "trespasser" got off easy.


g.c.

Here's a reply from Orvis. I forwarded the post you made with the question.
They addressed the answer to you at my address. It was from Abby Ward at
ORvis

Dear Mr. Cleveland:

Thank you for your letter regarding the Rocky Mountain News article dated
December 8, 2004. A representative from Orvis was not present at the river
when this confrontation took place, so a judgement of the situation cannot
be made. Three Forks Ranch has obeyed Colorado state law and to date
continues to meet the rigorous standards that have earned the business an
Orvis Endorsement.

Please feel free to contact me should future questions arise. We appreciate
your concerns and ideas and are happy to assist you wherever possible.

Sincerely,

Abby Ward
Communications Coordinator
The Orvis Company, Inc.
U.S. Mail to - P.O. Box 798, Manchester, VT 05254-0798
Ship parcels to - Rt. 7A Tennis Way, East Dorset, VT 05253
Tel: 802-362-8525
Fax: 802-362-0141



After reading this I am really disturbed by what happened to this fellow.

I think we all should write/email Orvis regarding their sponsorship of
these types of ranches, at least expressing our concern that they are
helping move the sport away from the general public.

Dave

Dave Jackson writes:

After reading this I am really disturbed by what happened to this fellow.

I think we all should write/email Orvis regarding their sponsorship of
these types of ranches, at least expressing our concern that they are
helping move the sport away from the general public.

Orvis is not responsible for what happened to this "fellow". As the letter
states, the ranch has obeyed the laws. There are many "ranches" out there, not
endorsed by Orvis or anyone else that do the same thing. The problem is not
with Orvis.

In article ,
irate (Dave LaCourse) wrote:

Dave Jackson writes:

After reading this I am really disturbed by what happened to this fellow.

I think we all should write/email Orvis regarding their sponsorship of
these types of ranches, at least expressing our concern that they are
helping move the sport away from the general public.

Orvis is not responsible for what happened to this "fellow". As the letter
states, the ranch has obeyed the laws. There are many "ranches" out there,
not
endorsed by Orvis or anyone else that do the same thing. The problem is not
with Orvis.












You are right in the fact that the problem is not with Orvis, in a way.
But, Orvis still has their name on this ranch and a canned PR reply does
not change that. Orvis needs to know that if they support these ranches
there will be problems down the road.

Dave

Dave Jackson writes:

But, Orvis still has their name on this ranch and a canned PR reply does
not change that. Orvis needs to know that if they support these ranches
there will be problems down the road.


What kind of problems? The ranch is legal. They do not write the laws of
Colorado or any other state. Their endorsement means that the ranch has
excellent meals and quarters, excellent guides and fishing, and probably has
Orvis equipment which the clients can use/test. The only time I have not been
treated well or received excellent food at one of these lodges, I complained to
Orvis and steps were taken to improve the service. If I had to choose between
an Orvis endorsed lodge and another one on the same river, I would choose the
Orvis one. It is probably gonna be a better lodge. Sorry 'bout that.

Well, I see we disagree, that's fine.

I said my peace and agree to disagree.

Dave

Dave Jackson writes:

But, Orvis still has their name on this ranch and a canned PR reply does
not change that. Orvis needs to know that if they support these ranches
there will be problems down the road.


What kind of problems? The ranch is legal. They do not write the laws of
Colorado or any other state. Their endorsement means that the ranch has
excellent meals and quarters, excellent guides and fishing, and probably has
Orvis equipment which the clients can use/test. The only time I have not been
treated well or received excellent food at one of these lodges, I complained to
Orvis and steps were taken to improve the service. If I had to choose between
an Orvis endorsed lodge and another one on the same river, I would choose the
Orvis one. It is probably gonna be a better lodge. Sorry 'bout that.

Well, I see we disagree, that's fine.

I said my peace and agree to disagree.

Dave

Dave Jackson writes:

But, Orvis still has their name on this ranch and a canned PR reply does
not change that. Orvis needs to know that if they support these ranches
there will be problems down the road.


What kind of problems? The ranch is legal. They do not write the laws of
Colorado or any other state. Their endorsement means that the ranch has
excellent meals and quarters, excellent guides and fishing, and probably has
Orvis equipment which the clients can use/test. The only time I have not been
treated well or received excellent food at one of these lodges, I complained to
Orvis and steps were taken to improve the service. If I had to choose between
an Orvis endorsed lodge and another one on the same river, I would choose the
Orvis one. It is probably gonna be a better lodge. Sorry 'bout that.

Dave Jackson wrote in news:dave-
:


After reading this I am really disturbed by what happened to this fellow.


Assuming that it's true, and that the Ranch didn't ask him to leave five
times or something. Frankly, I find it hard to believe that this sequence
of events happened exactly as described. Note that the article doesn't
solicit info from the Ranch.

I don't like it that one trespass is sufficient grounds for license
revocation, but I can understand it. Trespassers and rude thoughtless
sportsman do alot more to damage the outdoors experience than the
occasional poacher, IMO. But- I bet that the fine for poaching is more
than the fine for trespassing.

Also, it isn't the Ranch's fault that the law is so harsh.




I think we all should write/email Orvis regarding their sponsorship of
these types of ranches, at least expressing our concern that they are
helping move the sport away from the general public.

Dave


Orvis donates alot of money to conservation efforts. I think the balance
tilts in their favor.

Scott

Scott Seidman wrote:

Assuming that it's true, and that the Ranch didn't ask him to leave five
times or something. Frankly, I find it hard to believe that this sequence
of events happened exactly as described. Note that the article doesn't
solicit info from the Ranch.

A fellow on the Outdoorsbest Rocky Mountain forum wrote to Three Forks
Ranch and received this reply:

"You may do as you wish with your clients, but this story is very skewed
in favor of building sympathy for this trespasser. Mr. Pagliasotti,
drove 1/4 mile off RCR 129, through a very well signed gate, into an
irigated meadow, that had two of my clients accompanied by one of my
guides, standing next to a Ford Excursion that had the Three Forks logo
on the door. The guy was either drunk or blind. Everything around him
screamed private property, yet he maliciously decided to trespass and go
fishing. If I had it to do over, I would not change my actions.

"We purchased this 50,000 acre property to keep it as one of the last
remaining large blocks of land in this area not subdivided. In order to
do that we have to make a living off the land. We are in the cattle
business, but that alone does not pay the bills on this property. We are
in the hunting and fishing business, to compliment the cattle business,
and try to keep from subdividing this property . We are also very
conservation minded, having completed the largest "privately funded"
river restoration project in the history of the United States. The
Little Snake River was a lost fishery before we completed this project.

"Private property rights are very important, and must be upheld. This
person blatantly, violated those rights. We have a right to protect our
property, as do you.

"Regards,

"Jay Linderman
General Manager
Three Forks Ranch"


This is the link to the topic on the Outdoors best forum:

http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=285085