line choice for beginner

I want to start fly fishing and have rod (5 wt) and reel (7wt). I will buy a
5 wt floating line since this has recommended for me, but am wondering
whether a weight forward or double taper would be appropriate. I see the
advantage of the DT is that you get twice the use because you can reverse it
eventually. I would also think that since my reel is a bit large for my
rod/line weight that a double taper might be appropriate. Do you guys think
it would be a good idea or should I just get a weight forward line? Also,
does it matter which exactly one I get? I have been told to get the best or
close to it. Do you have any specific recommendations as to brand?

TIA

Dan

What rod are you using ?

If you have a reel matched for a 7wt, it would probably not be a bad idea to
fill it up with backing.
That way your flyline will be less coiled (but remeber to stretch it before you
go fishing). However
depending on the reel it self it might might be a bit heavy for the rod, i.e.
move the balance too far
back.

Bud, if you are just starting you won't notice any difference between a
double taper and a weight forward. Indeed, in average stream fishing, they
are no different except in certain situations.

Just get a five weight line, rather a name brand at a good price than the
'best' you can get. It is necessary for you to progress to the point where
you can say, I don't like' this' or 'that' in my 'rod' or 'line' for your
question to have any relevance.

Go fish. worry more about your leader, tippet, knots and presentation. A
good caster can take a lousy line on a good rod, or a good line on a lousy
rod, or BOTH and catch fish.

Easy big fellah, whoa Sea Biscuit....

. . .kiss my ass I've got a boat, I'm goin out to sea....

john




"Dan" wrote in message
...
I want to start fly fishing and have rod (5 wt) and reel (7wt). I will buy
a
5 wt floating line since this has recommended for me, but am wondering
whether a weight forward or double taper would be appropriate. I see the
advantage of the DT is that you get twice the use because you can reverse
it
eventually. I would also think that since my reel is a bit large for my
rod/line weight that a double taper might be appropriate. Do you guys
think
it would be a good idea or should I just get a weight forward line? Also,
does it matter which exactly one I get? I have been told to get the best
or
close to it. Do you have any specific recommendations as to brand?

TIA

Dan

Your logic is good. The advantage of a weight foreward is that you can cast
it further when you learn how to shoot line, and you can carry more backing.
the latter is not a consideration if you have a larger reel to start with.
Eventually you may find some discomfort with the size of the reel, and you
may want to get one that would better balnace the reel as Sven suggested.
If you're just getting started, I would worry to much about that yet.
(unless money is no object)
Which band and which model? A good a starting line is the Sci. Angler 333
available (or was) at Walmart for less than $30 If money is no object, most
of the lines are good. The only line I don't like is the clear Cortland
555..too much memory!
"Dan" wrote in message
...
I want to start fly fishing and have rod (5 wt) and reel (7wt). I will buy
a
5 wt floating line since this has recommended for me, but am wondering
whether a weight forward or double taper would be appropriate. I see the
advantage of the DT is that you get twice the use because you can reverse
it
eventually. I would also think that since my reel is a bit large for my
rod/line weight that a double taper might be appropriate. Do you guys
think
it would be a good idea or should I just get a weight forward line? Also,
does it matter which exactly one I get? I have been told to get the best
or
close to it. Do you have any specific recommendations as to brand?

TIA

Dan




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..
"Sierra fisher" wrote in message
...

If you're just getting started, I would worry to much about that yet.
(unless money is no object)..money no object?

I think that's it.

I couldn't teach a hungry baby to suckle. I'd kill it first out of
frustration.

When I 'taught' my wife to flyfish, I showed her a cast or three. I cast,
she watched.

Then I showed her how to shake the line out of the rod tip. I turned and
walked away. My point? Well, Unless you happen to have a professional, and
be into some serious one on one, it doesn't really matter what you hit the
water with.

Watch a video from the library about casting and you can hit the water. Just
don't cast. Later, when you want more line out, you'll learn.

Hopefully, soon, you will have made acquaintances and you can try their rods
with your line or whatever.

Of course the sooner you meet those guys the better.

But let's face it. We are doing ourselves a disservice here. I'd recommend
this cyclic deprived Rod Stewart to buy some really expensive **** and I'll
look for it in three weeks on ebay....

john

Hi All,

There is a dramatic difference between fly line finishes. I have sold them
all sense 1965 and have cast them all too.

There are tons of real old technology lines out there for the low price
point market that feel like sand paper when you cast them. We are always
looking for the best value for the dollar. Fly lines like the old SA
'Aircel' and Cortland '333' are 1950s technology. You have to get to a
certain level to get into the newer smoother finish lines that are not going
to negatively effect your casting.

We found that the Cortland '444' peach colored line (1964) has been the
turning point for many years. Another newer line that is great for beginners
in the SA/Master 'Head Start' (~year 2000) because it has the new 'AST'
finish. We are talking $40 and up to get something that is real smooth and
will cast very near like the best. The best lines in the world now are only
$60USD so I don't know why anyone would not get the best?

The best rods are $700 so that is understandable why most won't go there.

For many years the common advise to put the most money towards a good fly
line, secondly the rod and lastly the reel.

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA

Web site: www.kiene.com


"Sierra fisher" wrote in message
...

Your logic is good. The advantage of a weight foreward is that you can
cast
it further when you learn how to shoot line, and you can carry more
backing.
the latter is not a consideration if you have a larger reel to start with.
Eventually you may find some discomfort with the size of the reel, and you
may want to get one that would better balnace the reel as Sven suggested.
If you're just getting started, I would worry to much about that yet.
(unless money is no object)
Which band and which model? A good a starting line is the Sci. Angler
333
available (or was) at Walmart for less than $30 If money is no object,
most
of the lines are good. The only line I don't like is the clear Cortland
555..too much memory!
"Dan" wrote in message
...
I want to start fly fishing and have rod (5 wt) and reel (7wt). I will
buy
a
5 wt floating line since this has recommended for me, but am wondering
whether a weight forward or double taper would be appropriate. I see the
advantage of the DT is that you get twice the use because you can
reverse
it
eventually. I would also think that since my reel is a bit large for my
rod/line weight that a double taper might be appropriate. Do you guys
think
it would be a good idea or should I just get a weight forward line?
Also,
does it matter which exactly one I get? I have been told to get the best
or
close to it. Do you have any specific recommendations as to brand?

TIA

Dan




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Hi,
I would second Bill K's advice about the cost - you can buy an SA or
Cortland and have a good quality line for less than $50-$60.
I would say that the weight forward is MUCH easier to cast for a beginner,
as the Double Taper does not put as much weight up front, and you will
notice the difference in your casting, which at first will be 40 feet and
under- this will be much easier with a WF line. The advantage of a double
taper (reversing it) is really kind of silly - by the time the front wears
out, do you think the rest of the line is still unblemished? A damaged line
is a damaged line.
The real advantage to a DT is that because it has less weight up front you
can make more delicate (read - less splashy) casts when presenting dries at
a distance. You won't be doing that for the first year or two probably, so
go with the WF and have some fun!

Bill
http://www.tightlines.ca

"Bill Kiene" wrote in message
m...
Hi All,

There is a dramatic difference between fly line finishes. I have sold them
all sense 1965 and have cast them all too.

There are tons of real old technology lines out there for the low price
point market that feel like sand paper when you cast them. We are always
looking for the best value for the dollar. Fly lines like the old SA
'Aircel' and Cortland '333' are 1950s technology. You have to get to a
certain level to get into the newer smoother finish lines that are not
going
to negatively effect your casting.

We found that the Cortland '444' peach colored line (1964) has been the
turning point for many years. Another newer line that is great for
beginners
in the SA/Master 'Head Start' (~year 2000) because it has the new 'AST'
finish. We are talking $40 and up to get something that is real smooth and
will cast very near like the best. The best lines in the world now are
only
$60USD so I don't know why anyone would not get the best?

The best rods are $700 so that is understandable why most won't go there.

For many years the common advise to put the most money towards a good fly
line, secondly the rod and lastly the reel.

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA

Web site: www.kiene.com


"Sierra fisher" wrote in message
...

Your logic is good. The advantage of a weight foreward is that you can
cast
it further when you learn how to shoot line, and you can carry more
backing.
the latter is not a consideration if you have a larger reel to start
with.
Eventually you may find some discomfort with the size of the reel, and
you
may want to get one that would better balnace the reel as Sven
suggested.
If you're just getting started, I would worry to much about that yet.
(unless money is no object)
Which band and which model? A good a starting line is the Sci. Angler
333
available (or was) at Walmart for less than $30 If money is no object,
most
of the lines are good. The only line I don't like is the clear
Cortland
555..too much memory!
"Dan" wrote in message
...
I want to start fly fishing and have rod (5 wt) and reel (7wt). I will
buy
a
5 wt floating line since this has recommended for me, but am wondering
whether a weight forward or double taper would be appropriate. I see
the
advantage of the DT is that you get twice the use because you can
reverse
it
eventually. I would also think that since my reel is a bit large for
my
rod/line weight that a double taper might be appropriate. Do you guys
think
it would be a good idea or should I just get a weight forward line?
Also,
does it matter which exactly one I get? I have been told to get the
best
or
close to it. Do you have any specific recommendations as to brand?

TIA

Dan




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Dan I too am a novice. I talked to many fly fishing shops before buying new
line last time I bought it. Everyone of them told me to go with WF.
"Dan" wrote in message
...
I want to start fly fishing and have rod (5 wt) and reel (7wt). I will buy
a
5 wt floating line since this has recommended for me, but am wondering
whether a weight forward or double taper would be appropriate. I see the
advantage of the DT is that you get twice the use because you can reverse
it
eventually. I would also think that since my reel is a bit large for my
rod/line weight that a double taper might be appropriate. Do you guys
think
it would be a good idea or should I just get a weight forward line? Also,
does it matter which exactly one I get? I have been told to get the best
or
close to it. Do you have any specific recommendations as to brand?

TIA

Dan

Fly-shops are there to sell you things. Some will give you first class
advice, and yet others will merely try to sell you something. The only way
to make sure you get what you really need, is to inform yourself as well as
you possibly can. There are a couple of fly-shop owners posting on here (
and of course there are many other good ones as well, but I don´t know them
!), who can be relied upon to give you good advice on gear etc, as opposed
to merely selling you something.

Manufacturers advice, and general "blurb" with regard to the gear they sell
is often less than useless, as most will exaggerate, obfuscate, and lie
through their teeth in order to flog their gear.

I am aware that many people advise beginners to use WF lines, I have just
never been able to figure out why. I rather suspect it is because there is
more money to be earned on a WF line, and advertising is a very powerful
force. Much greater than common sense.

With regard to the "thousands" of people I have taught to cast. This sounds
ridiculous of course, but is a fact. Where I live, people are obliged to
take a number of tests before they can go fishing. For a long time I
instructed large numbers of people wishing to do this. Often up to a
hundred or more at a time, and several times a year. Normally, most could
cast well enough to pass the test after two Saturday mornings instruction,
and a couple of days practicing on their own. At such a rate, and after over
twenty years of doing it, it does not take all that long to have taught a
few thousand people. It also does not take long before you have cast
several thousand rods and lines! Not to mention the odd conglomeration of
reels and other gear which turns up. Nevertheless, one often has difficulty
persuading people to change what they bought! Even when it is quite
obviously unsuitable! Nowadays, most clubs etc here have a selection of
suitable gear for people to use for casting practice prior to tests etc, and
this is much better than them buying a load of stuff beforehand.

People learn things at different speeds. Out of a hundred people say, maybe
60 will learn to cast ( under the same instruction of course), in two
Saturday mornings. Others, say 20 to 30, will require more time, maybe four
or five Saturday mornings, and the rest will need much longer. This is
perfectly normal. Trying to learn on your own will work, but may take a lot
longer, as you do not know exactly what you are trying to do. It is rare
for somebody to be able to cast immediately, but it does occur. Much as
some people can shoot very accurately immediately, or pick up a musical
instrument and play it almost immediately. Talent also varies widely. If
you have no talent, you can still do it, but it takes a lot more time,
effort, and application.

There are some people who are quite fanatical about WF lines, and I know a
couple of top casters who use them. If you are a top caster, then you don´t
need any advice from me anyway. If you like, and use WF lines, then that is
great, I have nothing whatever against you doing so. I do not use them
myself, and I do not advocate them either. Most especially not for
beginners.

Usually, people are advised to use a WF line one rating up from the rod
rating. For a long time, most rods had two ratings marked on the butt i.e
#6/#7 or similar.
This was usually a manufacturers recommendation that the rod would cast a
DT#6 or a WF#7. This is because a WF line of the same rating as the DT
would be too light to load the rod at short range, Many beginners still
have difficulty even when using a WF one rating higher, as this also does
not load the rod well at short range. If you have trouble loading the rod,
then use a DT one rating up. This is easier to start with. All rods will
cast a range of lines, but it will be easire and better with the right one
for you.

Before you can catch fish at ranges of sixty feet and more, you must be able
to catch them at ranges of thirty feet or less! Doing otherwise, is trying
to run before you can walk, is extremely frustrating, and is in any case
more or less doomed to failure.

WF lines were originally designed for distance casting, invariably with a
double haul, and they do work quite well for this. ( Not as well as a
shooting head though). For some stillwater or other long distance work they
are more than adequate, especially some of the newer special lengths and
tapers which are offered. These are in no way suitable for beginners!

One inevitably returns however to the simple fact that beginners are unable
to cast much distance, they often can not cast at all! Selling them, or
advising them to buy something which they can not use properly, is
absolutely pointless, and merely results in them becoming frustrated, not to
mention the money they wasted.

What the "mainstream advice" happens to be at any given time, has never
worried me much at all, although when I first started a long time ago, I
wasted time, money, and tears, on the wrong things as well. Doubtless every
half way experienced angler on this group, or anywhere else for that matter,
has wasted varying amounts of time and money trying to set up his optimal
personal rig, or rigs. This is part of the game really. But many beginners
simply can not afford to go this route, they are better served with
reasonably priced and suitable gear to start with. They can always buy the
fancy stuff later, after they have learned how to use it.

By the same token, buying extremely expensive gear to start with is usually
a mistake. Once upon a time, the standard advice was to buy a reasonable
rod, a cheap reel, and the best line you could afford.

Rods and reels, even the cheap ones, are now generally so good that it does
not even matter much what you buy, they will work. This will save you
money, and allow you to gather knowledge and experience. With regard to
lines, it is certain that the best lines will allow you to cast better. But
as you can not cast to start with, and are liable to beat hell out of your
first line anyway, as handling etc also has to be learned, then it is
probably better to go for a medium priced line, as you will probably ruin it
in your first season.

Advice on this or any other group, is only advice. It may differ widely.
This does not necessarily make it "wrong". As a general rule, if you get the
same advice from ten experienced anglers, and differing advice from three
others, then go with the majority! Hardly anybody will wilfully give you
bad advice.

The best way to get started is not to buy anything at all! But to take
casting lessons from a good caster, or a reputable guide, preferably a well
known pro. After this, you "KNOW" what you need and why, and it will work
out cheaper in the long run, not to mention the time and frustration you
save as a result. Very few people go this route, but it is undoubtedly the
best way of going about it.

If you don´t want, or are unable to do this, then you are forced to rely on
advice from others, and your own devices. What you make of this is entirely
up to you.

Even with the best advice, best instruction, and the best gear, you can not
learn in twenty minutes what it has taken others twenty years to learn.
Fishing is a continual journey of discovery. It is not like learning to
ride a bicycle! You will never be "perfect" no matter what you do, and there
is always something new around the corner. Casting is only a part of what
you need to learn.

There are now millions of people flyfishing. The skill and knowledge level
of these people differs massively. Just because somebody has been fishing
for twenty years does not necessarily make him an expert, and by the same
token, some young guy who only started a year ago may be brilliant at it!
Normally, it is quite easy to tell who is a good angler, and who is not.
Merely watch and listen. Many things become obvious in a very short time,
even though you yourself may have very little knowledge of the matter, you
can tell very quickly indeed whether somebody else has.

What you need to do is go fishing and enjoy yourself, that is really what
fishing is all about. If you enjoy yourself, then many things will come
quite naturally, without even a conscious effort on your part. If you look
at fishing or casting as a task which somehow has to be accomplished in a
given time, and then you are an expert, then you will very likely fail, and
you will also not enjoy yourself much.

TL
MC

In article , Mike Connor
wrote:

snipped

With regard to the "thousands" of people I have taught to cast. This sounds
ridiculous of course, but is a fact. Where I live, people are obliged to
take a number of tests before they can go fishing. For a long time I
instructed large numbers of people wishing to do this. Often up to a
hundred or more at a time, and several times a year. Normally, most could
cast well enough to pass the test after two Saturday mornings instruction,
and a couple of days practicing on their own.

TL
MC

Mike,

A bit off topic for the subject but I was intrigued by the idea of
required instruction prior to taking up fishing. Driving, sure (in
fact, most in the US ought to go back for a refresher! ) Hunting, makes
good sense as you're dealing with potentially lethal mistakes, but
fishing? Is it conservation that they want to teach or is it a safety
issue? I fish with Frank Reid regularly so no one is more aware of the
dangers of fishing than me (and I've pulled some pretty stupid stuff
myself I just don't share it!) but I can't think of any classroom or
on-the-water course that would have saved me.

Happy Easter

Allen
Catonsville, MD