How much fly line?

On 21 Mar 2007 14:35:11 -0700, wrote:

On Mar 21, 10:19 pm, "rb608" wrote:

SNIP
I realize that's an emotional generalization born out of the bull**** that
goes on here; but as one of the 95% who fail consistently, I can assure you
that it is not due to lack of understanding of the physics of casting or the
mechanics of my equipment. I understand all of that perfectly well; what I
lack is the magic.

SNIP
Oh I understand you perfectly, and indeed Tim J. as well. Certainly
far better than you realise. When I am fishing, I don´t need to
analyse anything, it has become second nature.

Furthermore, it is apparently not clear to you and others that I don´t
do anything else. I live, eat, breathe and sleep, fishing, a minimum
of twelve hours a day, and usually seven days a week, 52 weeks a year,

Well, maybe if you spent 16 hours a day, 8 days a week, and 54 weeks a
year on it, you'll eventually understand something about it...it has
nothing to do with physics and Greek letters and line weights and other
BORING ****...it has to do with what each individual finds enjoyable...

I have nothing else worthwhile to do. I read about it, think about it,
and discuss it without pause, with some of the greatest experts on the planet,

That's bull****, Georg...oops...anyway, it's bull****, pure and simple.
You spend too much time with silly-ass self-delusional pimping to be
anything more than just some 'net/USENET loony.

On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 17:39:41 -0600, rw
wrote:

wrote:

Furthermore, it is apparently not clear to you and others that I don´t
do anything else. I live, eat, breathe and sleep, fishing, a minimum
of twelve hours a day, and usually seven days a week, 52 weeks a year,
I have nothing else worthwhile to do. I read about it, think about it,
and discuss it without pause, with some of the greatest experts on the
planet, the same goes for fly-dressing and other related subjects.

Gosh. That doesn't leave much time for lengthy treatises in ROFF and
other worthless forums.

As I said, this may be of interest;

http://www.fish-wild.co.uk/index.php...eatures&pid=69

Quote from the link above (an article by Mike Conner):

"What many people completely fail to understand is that the number or
size of fish is basically irrelevant to a true angler."

Quote from a Mike Connor post dated 12:30 PM today:

"Good advice, if you want to be just like all the other stupid
unthinking dumbos who can´t cast, and know virtually nothing about
their equipment or how to use it, much less how to catch fish.

"You know why 5% of the anglers catch 95% of the fish? Because that
95% of anglers who consistently fail are just as stupid and ignorant
as this lot."

My apologies if I upset anybody who did not deserve it.

Yours is one of the worst cases of monomaniacal cognitive dissonance
I've ever seen.

Oh, goody...yet another numbnuts with a degree in psychobabble...well,
have it your way, Wizard of Id...

HTH,
Dickie
....****, I took that there whatchacall Horshack test, and all of them
pitchers looked like nekked wimmen...with Martini shakers...the doc said
something he thought was real profound...I said, "aw, hell, boy, you
ain't gotta get all worked up or nothin...I just REALLY like to drink
and ****...and besides, I ain't the one tryin' to show another guy the
sorry-assed porn..."

On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 21:38:35 GMT, "Tom Littleton"
wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
. It beats me
why anybody would want to make such a complete prat of himself, and be
disliked by everybody, but please feel free.


c'mon folks, own up to it! I can't be the only one with tears of laughter
rolling down my cheeks at this one, can I?
Tom



I don't have enough of that kind of sense of humour. I was just
staring and then shaking my head.
--

r.bc: vixen
Minnow goddess, Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher.
Almost entirely harmless. Really.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Tom Littleton typed:
"daytripper" wrote in message
...

fine angling story snipped

....and what year can we hope to see a display of this
angling prowess unleashed upon the hapless Penn's Creek brown trout(I
am referring to you and Tim, who seems
to fall a few hundred miles short each May himself)??

This year won't be any different. I get really cranky during that week,
'cause I sure wish I could be there again.
--
TL,
Tim
-------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

"Tom Littleton" wrote


and can assure you, and any other damned soul that will listen,
that "casting skill" accounts for a VERY small percentage of angling
success. Presentation involves so much more than distance casting or show
casting. Mostly, it involves getting to the sweet spot where the actual
cast is EASY, and avoiding being seen or heard by the fish.


Now, I haven't read any of this thread since I posted in it a couple days
ago and WAY up there G

Curious how anything could go on so long and noticing a few names of folks
usually reasonable, I picked the name of a poster that has a history of
being worth reading and opened Tom's offering WAY down here.

Imagine my surprise to find thought of value in these murky depths !!

I post, again having read only 3 or 4 entries in this thread ( I quit
following when I see certain names more than twice in a thread ), only to
say that MY experience is exactly what the quoted passage above says. A
FEW times each year I wish for better casting skills, and even then almost
always better accuracy not distance, I'd kill for better approach and wading
ability and need them every single day of fishing.

I guess I could check a few other posts further up to see if there is more
of value .... nah, the odds just seem too great against it ... have "fun"
ya'll

On 19 Mar 2007 07:45:13 -0700, wrote:


What is a "shooting head"? What can I do with it? Do I really need
one?


Mike,

I think you're the right person here to whom I can ask my question.
And the question is what would be the best combination of
rod-reel-backing-line-tippet-fly for fishing with fast sinking
shooting head?
I mean in terms of rod length/weight, shoting head length/weight,
backing length/diameter etc.
And could you name a couple of brand names for
the sinking shooting head line?
I visited the Bass Pro shop but it's too confusing to me to find the
right combination from the specs they provided.
Thank you in advance.

Vladimir L.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Larry L wrote:

( I quit
following when I see certain names more than twice in a thread ),

Which names in particular?

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Larry L wrote:
"Tom Littleton" wrote
... "casting skill" accounts for a VERY small percentage of angling
success. Presentation involves so much more than distance casting or show
casting. Mostly, it involves getting to the sweet spot where the actual
cast is EASY, and avoiding being seen or heard by the fish.

...
Imagine my surprise to find thought of value in these murky depths !!

I post, again having read only 3 or 4 entries in this thread ( I quit
following when I see certain names more than twice in a thread ), only to
say that MY experience is exactly what the quoted passage above says. A
FEW times each year I wish for better casting skills, and even then almost
always better accuracy not distance, I'd kill for better approach and wading
ability and need them every single day of fishing. ...

Well, in Mike's defense he's talking about a whole different ballgame.
I'd imagine when you're standing waist deep in the Baltic casting big
streamers to small sea trout distance is more important than it is in
the kind of fishing me and you Tom usually do. Stealth isn't an issue
and wading ability means being able to stay on your feet when a wave
hits. Not my cup of tea, I prefer little trout streams, but different
strokes ... literally.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Mar 22, 5:24 pm, Vladimir L. wrote:
On 19 Mar 2007 07:45:13 -0700, wrote:



What is a "shooting head"? What can I do with it? Do I really need
one?

Mike,

I think you're the right person here to whom I can ask my question.
And the question is what would be the best combination of
rod-reel-backing-line-tippet-fly for fishing with fast sinking
shooting head?
I mean in terms of rod length/weight, shoting head length/weight,
backing length/diameter etc.
And could you name a couple of brand names for
the sinking shooting head line?
I visited the Bass Pro shop but it's too confusing to me to find the
right combination from the specs they provided.
Thank you in advance.

Vladimir L.

--


What do you want to use it for? What is your target quarry?. I need
that information to give you a sensible answer.


TL
MC

A practical application, an extract form an article on Grayling
fishing.

OK, we've all done it. read a book or a magazine article about some
clever-****e who wanders around getting paid for catching fish. Often
large ones, in interesting and exotic places, which we will never ever
see. Wonderful pictures of various stream and river-scapes, and
fantastic fish are depicted, perhaps a re-hash of some tactic or other
we have all heard a hundred times before, a list of flies, some
technical information on lines or rods etc, and that was it.

Always disappoints the hell out of me in the end! Although I keep
reading them all, or at least as many as I can afford!

Long ago, I decided that if I could not visit all these places, then I
must find a way of catching such fish and enjoying myself close to
home. The reason I explain this, is that anybody reading this can do
exactly the same. It requires some application and knowledge, but once
you have this, you can not fail. The result is inevitable. After all
we are only trying to fool a fish, this is not quantum mechanics.

As I mentioned in a previous article, in my opinion #6 weight rods are
far too heavy for most of this type of fishing, especially small
stream fishing, and most especially for grayling fishing. "Oh of
course", everybody doubtless thought at the time, and continued
reading avidly, as they would also like to catch lovely fish on light
gear, and then went on to wonder how I manage to cast a size six long
shank weighted Woolly bugger, green tailed or otherwise, with such a
rod.

This is the monstrosity under discussion;



Well, I will let you into a little secret. Just like all the other
clever-****es, I cheat! There is no way you are going to be able to
cast such a heavily weighted and wind resistant fly using a standard
#3 weight set-up. It is pointless even trying, you will cry tears of
frustration, and if the rod does not shatter the first time the heavy
fly hits it, then you will doubtless break it across your knee, and
curse the fool who ever suggested such a thing to oblivion and worse.

There is however an extremely simple and effective trick which will
allow you to cast such a monstrosity, in the manner I will presently
describe, without any trouble at all, to the everlasting amazement of
your angling companions, (who don't know the trick yet), and hopefully
the inevitable downfall of large numbers of nice fish.

This trick is absolutely germane to many of the techniques I use, I
could not possibly do without it, and if forced to, I would probably
not catch very much, certainly not many very large Grayling.

So, enough suspense building, what do I actually do? Quite simple, I
use a heavier line. I never need to cast more than thirty feet, and so
I simply use a thirty-foot piece of #6 weight fly-line. I have no
trouble at all hurling leaden monstrosities with such a line, and as I
never have more than thirty feet of line out, the rod has no trouble
handling it either. I have even used a piece of #8 weight line on a #3
weight rod without any problems at all.

So why not use a #6 weight rod to start with? I hear you asking.
Because that is not the same thing at all. If one fishes heavy flies
on light tippets, then one must perforce use a light rod, as otherwise
the rod will simply not provide enough cushioning effect, and the fish
will break you. One may use 2 lb tippet on size six long shank woolly
buggers with impunity, as long as the rod is light enough to cushion
the fight of the fish.

One must indeed constantly check the knots on such a leader, and also
change the tippet at the slightest sign of abrasion, or after a hang-
up etc. But it works perfectly well.

Standard tapered leaders are useless for this type of fishing. One may
use the butt of such a leader, but it must be modified, usually by
adding a much heavier butt. We need a good length of light line in
order to get down deep quickly, notwithstanding the very heavy fly, in
order to stay in the "strike zone" as our American friends say, and a
normal leader will not allow this.

"Oh dear!", I hear some of you mumbling, "That does not sound much
like the fly-fishing I know and love". At this particular point in
time, one is bound to decide, does one wish to fish? Or does one wish
to catch a few as well? Preferably large ones!

For those of you already sickened by this philistine approach, then
cease at once I beg you. Because it gets worse! Smile

Most people go and buy a fishing rod somewhere, for any number of
reasons, and then start trying to get the rest of the tackle they are
of course then also obliged to buy, to match it in some way. This very
rarely works, and is the main reason why many have awful trouble
catching fish.

In this particular instance, we require absolutely specific flies and
leaders, in order to attain our objectives. All the other gear used is
a direct result of this. If you want to try these methods on a #6
weight rod, then go ahead, but they will not work anywhere near as
well.

So, we have our fly, preferably the size six long shank weighted green
tailed woolly bugger already mentioned. Other flies may be used, but
this one works perfectly, and is easy to tie.


There are no Grayling in the Baltic. I catch them in small rivers and
streams.

TL
MC