TR

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 17:53:58 -0500, Dave LaCourse
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 13:10:05 -0500, daytripper
wrote:

Do you really not understand, Dave?

Mike has never rained the litany of foul, hate-filled lying invectives you
have laid on me for years.

But yet he is as guilty as any for the hate-filled lies published on
these pages. You and I have had our differences and it all stems from
those two claves. I do not appreciate paying for the room both times,
nor for all of the gas except one fill-up. There were *no* lies,
Dave, concerning those claves, and you know it. I talked to Tom Brown
and he confirms the amount of beer we bought for *everyone*, not just
you.

I'm sorry, I can't let you have the last words on this topic if they are going
to be dishonest. Not after all these years of being the target of your abuse.

I paid Ken for the room at the Fall Ball, he confirmed it for all to see.
I paid you for the room at the Spring Fling, *you* confirmed it for all to see
- though you trimmed the truth there as well, claiming I didn't pay you the
whole price.
The gas thing you brought on yourself with your disgraceful conduct in public.
And you lied about why we spent the night in a double-wide trailer of friends
of yours whom I'd never even met before, a mere 2 hours from the Spring Fling

The beer thing, if it happened, was clearly of little consequence compared to
all the other things you lied about, but if it happened, for that you have my
apology.

The rest of the lies, you're just going to have to live with, or recant them
just as publicly as your wrote them. Otherwise we really have nothing further
to discuss.

That, in all its simplicity, is the difference...

Right. I get the blame for all the hate on roff and your buddies Ken,
Wolfgang, and Mikey go scott free. Like I said, your slip is showing.

Dave, nobody has ever accused you of being the brightest bulb on the tree, and
I'm not going to, either. Either you refuse to read what I write, or you
simply cannot comprehend the words. Either way the result is the same: you
totally miss the point.

That statement had nothing to do with anyone but *you* and your conduct here
to me. Period. End of sentence. Deal with it, and you'll be better for it.
Refuse to comprehend the damage you've wrought, and you'll be the lesser man
you've been for all these years.

Hope your wife and family enjoy the start of the Holidays...

Had the kids and all the grandkids plus a fishing buddy and his wife
for dinner. Thank you for your good will sentiment. Hope you and
yours are well.

Dave

Thank you, and for the record, I sincerely meant exactly what I said.

/daytripper

daytripper wrote:

I'm sorry, I can't let you have the last words on this topic if they are going
to be dishonest. Not after all these years of being the target of your abuse.

I paid Ken for the room at the Fall Ball, he confirmed it for all to see. ...

Nobody at Fall Ball paid for a room. The total cost of the lodging
was divided by the number of *beds*, not by the number of rooms. I
don't exactly remember why you two ended up in the same room but I
can confirm that both of you paid for your beds.

If this longstanding animus between you two is in any way related
to confusion over room vs. bed at Fall Ball then I'm the one who
should apologize for not being more clear.

And this just goes to show why I will never again be a Clavemeister.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 11:20:45 -0800 (PST), Mike
wrote:

On 22 Nov, 15:10, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 02:58:11 -0800 (PST), Mike



wrote:
On 22 Nov, 03:24, daytripper wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:59:16 -0800 (PST), Mike
wrote:
[...]

I don´t know what Mr.Tatosian is going to do, but I definitely will
not reply to you again, it makes me feel dirty.

MC

It would go a long way to restoring some semblance of civilization here if you
would simply hold to that commitment, Mike...

Cheers

/daytripper

Well, it´s an interesting theory, but I don´t think you will ever
restore "civilisation" here, as per definition, it requires people to
be civil, and several here gave up any semblance of that long ago, and
some were never privy to its niceties at all. The Ricks and Oakies.
Would you fish with such? I wouldn´t.

Regardless of what one posts, one must expect a sniper or some other
well-wisher to start the insults and rubbish. It´s like trying to
navigate a minefield blindfolded while giving a lecture to
recalcitrant schoolboys. One must weigh every single word with the
utmost care, and it still does no good.

Once upon a time this place worked reasonably well, because the checks
and balances, such as they were, still operated on the basis of mutual
respect and a certain peer pressure was evident. That has not been the
case for a long time. It actually started in earnest with Gehrke.
There is no way now even to shame some people into behaving in a civil
manner. They obviously view this place as some sort of personal
playground, where they may simply do as they like, without let or
hindrance. Unfortunately, that is also true. Without self control,
there is no control.

To be truthful, the only reason I am still here, is because I do not
wish to give anybody the satisfaction of saying I left in a snit or
some equally ridiculous crap. I will never bow down to liars, cowards,
and assholes. Also, just to make it clear, I am not refraining from
replying to LaCourse, Fortenberry, or that total ****bag Dean, because
it is the civil thing to do, I am doing it because anything else is
totally pointless. One might as well try to converse with a retarded
five year old in a tantrum, or a common house brick.

There is virtually no joy here any more, and it is also quite boring.
That is why it will just slide away quietly, and nobody will miss it
much. Those of you who are friends outside this group will doubtless
remain so, and that is fine. But this group is doomed as a going
concern. It was doomed the first time somebody abused another member
in an unforgivable manner, and nobody said anything. This has happened
countless times in the meantime, and nothing much was done. You lost
the best "bouncer" you had when Cyli passed. Her presence, and
occasionally her words, still held sway over even the worst offenders.
There is now nothing at all, no matter how low, evil, and nasty, some
would not say in the hope of damaging somebody they hate and perceive
to be an enemy. They HATE somebody, who at least originally, came here
because of a common interest, maybe even the love of fly-fishing. What
a disgusting perversion.

It all ceased to be about fishing a long time ago as well.

You don´t really want to associate with ****bags like Dean do you? He
is a nasty ******* because he enjoys being a nasty *******, and he
will never change.Neither will Fortenberry, he will continue to attack
and denigrate people who disagree with him, convinced beyond any
possible doubt that he is right, and therefore has the right to use
any means to further or impose his views on others. LaCourse is just
an unfortunate casualty, like an old bull full of banderillas, shaking
his head and feinting with what is left of his strength and hoping to
hit something with his horns although half blind with frustration and
rage. He doesn´t know what´s going on half the time. He has already
begun writing his attack before he has read and understood the first
line of the post, while invariably misinterpreting the motives or
intentions of the poster.

All a bit bloody pathetic really.

My third attempt at writing this, and it seems no better than the
first two. I don´t suppose it matters much anyway, and I do have the
time at least. I am even getting bored with the bloody website
now..................

Bugger it.

Did you ever wonder why you seem to be the (new) target of the most
incoming fire, as it were? Speaking only for myself, it's 90-something
percent over-the-top shtick, but I'll grant that some of what comes from
some quarters _seems_ to be loaded with real malice. But since I can't
speak for those authors as to their actual feelings, I won't. OTOH,
_you_ seem to produce more hate-filled, truly venomous spew than just
about anyone here OR you come off as a pompous clown whose every opinion
ought to be worshipped by all as a nugget of pure, shining wisdom. IOW,
you're begging for a nonstop gigging in a fishcamp/hunting camp/barroom
place like ROFF.

Maybe you haven't been lucky enough to be a part of any real-life groups
of guys (and the occasional gal) that gather to fish and hunt and
generally be "guys," at least for a time. You know - fish or hunt,
drink, have a side of sirloin with their ribeye after a fish or
backstrap appetizer, drink, smoke cigars, drink and cuss and fart
without so much as the hint of a feminine look that says "you BETTER
excuse yourself now, mister..." If so, that's a shame, but I can tell
you from 25 years of thankfully near-constant experience with such, at
least as far as the general bull****ting goes, it's about par for the
(normal) course. If we (the real-life groups, IAC) didn't want at least
a temporary respite from being serious adults with jobs, businesses,
clients, wives, girlfriends, children, leaking plumbing, lawns to mow,
and other assorted responsibilities, we wouldn't be at the ****ing
camp/on the boat/etc. And everyone in these various overlapping groups,
sooner or later, is going to do something that strikes folks as worthy
of a little bit of gigging, and in a friendly way, that person is gonna
get gigged. If they act like an asshole about it, it's only going to
draw more. Speaking only for myself, I don't _hate_ anyone around here -
heck, I'd happily share a stream, a cockpit, a hunting camp fire or a
drink with many, even most, of the goofballs and reprobates that share
this virtual campfire.

And something in your post that particularly stood out to me is your
description of Dave as an "old bull..." While I'd agree that such a
description does seem to fit him at time, frankly, I think that
description also fits you. You seem hellbent on "impressing" all here
with your knowledge and what a superior specimen you are. I would offer
that if you simply added you opinion to the often-large pile and were
done with it unless (seriously) asked for more information - like most
here do - you'd have a much easier time of it. As to impressing anyone
here, I doubt _anyone_ here stands much of a chance on becoming crowned
the King of ROFF, simply because there are too many folks here that, at
least as far as their own fishing happiness goes, know their ****. And
a good many could teach you (and/or others) a trick or three. Plus, the
regulars aren't here for fishing lessons, they are here for the
bull****ting around the campfire, and interrupting the punchline of a
good dirty joke to instruct folks on proper etiquette ain't gonna win
friends and influence people.

As 'tripper said, albeit at the wrong time, grow up. Don't take things
so seriously. Sure, when appropriate, put down your cocktail and be
serious, but not so much that you can't have some real fun.

HTH,
R

Against my better judgement, because I don´t trust you for a second,

"Trust me?" Man, you REALLY need to get a grip - "trust" doesn't have
the slightest thing to do with the matter. I simply spoke my piece, and
stand by it. I spoke no ill of or about you and made no attempt to drag
others into it. You, OTOH, can't seem to resist doing both. If you
ever wonder why you get ****, you need look no further than to simply
look to what you give.

and also ignoring once again the fact that I said I would not reply to
you, Mr.Bowen is quite correct. You have constantly posted **** on
here, but this is indeed cogent and sensible. I don´t agree with it, I
simply do not share your views in this regard, but I "hear what you
are saying".

Horse****. If you "heard what I was saying," you'd have heard that I
think you need - yeah, that's right, NEED - to calm you ass down, relax,
and have some fun. Some will like you, some will not, and many, on
varying occasion, will either ignore you or not understand you. So the
**** what? Get over it and yourself and have some fun...or continue in
a sad, sick, and silly vein and don't. Since you're given a full, free
choice, I'd offer the former beats all hell out of the latter, but hey,
YMMV...

I fear we will also never agree on such matters.
Basically I simply don´t understand you.

And whomever even suggested that you needed to? Laugh with me, at me,
or in spite of me, and at least we'll both be laughing...or don't...and,
well, you won't be...

You assume certain things as a matter of course, I see them
differently. These things should not be the grounds for discord. We
are different, and we always will be, but that should not stop us
learning from each other.

Yeah, well, put your money here your, um, well, keyboard is...

Quite apart from any other considerations, we have a duty to those
who come after us, indeed to those who are now looking at what we do
and how we behave.

"A duty?" Are you serious? This is a (figurative) campfire, not a
****in' summit on world peace. None of us a "duty" to do **** around
this campfire, and I'd not be ashamed in the least of anything I've ever
posted here, as long as those who "come after us" are over about 16 or
18 years old. And if those who come after us are too Goddamned ignorant
to separate honest rod reviews from silly-assed homo trainstation
bull**** and Sultan of Sausage at Beefeater Hall crapola, well, sorry,
but tough **** for them - I'm not a babysitter, have no interest in
trying to be one, and I'd offer you are unlikely to succeed in trying to
be one...hey, as always, YMMV...

You, and apparently some others, think I am a pompous knowitall, and
I think you are an unprincipled ****bag. Perhaps we are simply both
wrong?

Perhaps.

So how do we find out?

"We" don't. You stand your ass up in your own two loafers and _you_
make _your_ choice. But if you need a suggestion, here's mine: I'll
keep my nose out of your choosing process, and you quit being a pussy
and take your finger out of the wind with attempts to get others to
ratify your choices. I'll stick with SOP. amke my own choices and
ignore those who attempt to force their choices unto me. Whoever else
happens to be reading can make their own.

HTH,
R

MC

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 03:51:36 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

Mike wrote:
... Mr.Fortenberry,

I can not change what is, or what has been, but I can at least attempt
to change your perceptions of it, indeed, I constantly try to change
my own, as otherwise I would learn nothing. ...

You're not gonna change my perception of your vicious, foul-mouthed
personal attacks. It's like I said in another thread, you ride the
prevailing winds of roff and at this holiday moment the winds are
blowing towards sweetness and light. I'm guessing it won't be long
before sweetness and light is forgotten and you revert to form.

Now, see 'tripper, here's where a "grow the **** up" is not only
appropriate, but well-earned and much-deserved...so, on that note:

Ken, grow the **** up.

YFCOTGC,
R

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 17:59:47 -0500, Dave LaCourse
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 11:20:45 -0800 (PST), Mike
wrote:

So how do we find out?

We already have. I agree with Richard about you, but Richard is not a
****bag.

Are you defending that ****ba...HEY! Wait just a goldurned minute
here...are you trying to trick me or something?

Happy Thanksgiving,
R

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 17:53:58 -0500, Dave LaCourse
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 13:10:05 -0500, daytripper
wrote:

Do you really not understand, Dave?

Mike has never rained the litany of foul, hate-filled lying invectives you
have laid on me for years.

But yet he is as guilty as any for the hate-filled lies published on
these pages. You and I have had our differences and it all stems from
those two claves. I do not appreciate paying for the room both times,
nor for all of the gas except one fill-up. There were *no* lies,
Dave, concerning those claves, and you know it. I talked to Tom Brown
and he confirms the amount of beer we bought for *everyone*, not just
you.

That, in all its simplicity, is the difference...

Right. I get the blame for all the hate on roff and your buddies Ken,
Wolfgang, and Mikey go scott free. Like I said, your slip is showing.

Hope your wife and family enjoy the start of the Holidays...

Had the kids and all the grandkids plus a fishing buddy and his wife
for dinner. Thank you for your good will sentiment. Hope you and
yours are well.

Well, **** me running...hey, it's a start...now grow some hair, kiss
each other, and think about if a tank of gas or whatever other
chicken-**** nonsense was worth it...and if either of you can honestly
say "yes," print this post out and show it to someone who will have the
common sense to slap the **** out of you...

HTH,
R

Dave

On Nov 23, 1:35 am, Mike wrote:
On 22 Nov, 18:14, riverman wrote:





On Nov 23, 12:56 am, Mike wrote:

On 22 Nov, 17:30, Halfordian Golfer wrote:

On Nov 20, 11:39 pm, Mike wrote:

On 21 Nov, 05:34, Mike wrote:

Or would you like to continue flogging a dead dog, dumbo?

MC

Here you go LaCourse, just for you;

http://media.putfile.com/TownGmike

I don´t dance to anybody else´s tune LaCourse, I sing and play my own.

MC

TownGmike Sweet! Very nice and melodic and smooth in the baratone.
Well done Mike,

Your pal,

Tim

Very nice of you to say so, thanks. Obviously not a folk style which
will find universal approval of course. Perhaps you might like the
following. It tells the tale of a fox hunt not far from my home, which
now no longer exists, as the valley concerned was flooded to build a
dam;

http://media.putfile.com/KielderMikeAC

TL
MC- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Damn nice song! Did you sing all the harmonies too?

--riverman

No, those are live recordings on stage at the Jahnhalle, the audience
knew we were recording and apart from the odd cough or so, they were
absolutely silenjt. That was the initial line up of Alloy. Myself,
Heinz Juergen Mike, and Juergen Lange.

I know you play a really mean ( in the best possible sense!
Guitar. Any recordings? I really would like to hear something from
you again, I remember being surprised, ( more or less pleasantly! ,
when you picked up my guitar, and could play better than I could!


All the recordings I have I made on a 4-track cassette mixer years
back. I still have the masters, but the player died and went to heaven
long ago. Its kind of fun to play the masters on a regular cassette
deck, because half the track play backward in one speaker, the others
play forward in the other. Very satanic.

I haven't picked up my guitar in about 6 months, because this stupid
nerve thing has my hand extremely compromised. I can't even use a
mechanical pencil, let alone fingerpick a guitar. And even strumming,
I get all tangled in the strings. I think maybe in a few years I might
be back to where I can start retraining myself.

( I can still cast better !!! )


Yep, and you probably always will. You have about 70 years head start
on me, old man.

--M

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Mike wrote:
... Mr.Fortenberry,

I can not change what is, or what has been, but I can at least attempt
to change your perceptions of it, indeed, I constantly try to change
my own, as otherwise I would learn nothing. ...

You're not gonna change my perception of your vicious, foul-mouthed
personal attacks. It's like I said in another thread, you ride the
prevailing winds of roff and at this holiday moment the winds are
blowing towards sweetness and light. I'm guessing it won't be long
before sweetness and light is forgotten and you revert to form.

Now, see 'tripper, here's where a "grow the **** up" is not only
appropriate, but well-earned and much-deserved...so, on that note:

Ken, grow the **** up.

Do you really think His Loony Mikeness is going to get well
overnight and somehow be able to participate on roff without
collapsing into a full-blown, online hissy fit ? If so, I'll
be sure to tell the Düsseldorf branch of the FBI not to tell
you anything about Santa, the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy
during the course of your questioning. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 23:26:45 -0500, daytripper
wrote:

I paid Ken for the room at the Fall Ball, he confirmed it for all to see.
I paid you for the room at the Spring Fling, *you* confirmed it for all to see
- though you trimmed the truth there as well, claiming I didn't pay you the
whole price.

If you paid Fortenberry, *why* did you answer "no" when I asked you if
you paid? You didn't pay Walt for the room at the Spring Fling, or at
least that is what you said. That room cost me $250; I asked you for
$100 and you paid. It seems, therefore, that you owe Walt $250, and I
owe you $100. The beer story is true, as confirmed by Tom Brown. And
Tom will also confirm that neither of us drank five cases of beer. He
recently called me about that. This was after you accused me of
drinking "your" beer. A beer! A buck? You would deny me a beer?

Driving down we could not find a hotel because of graduation exercises
at colleges along the I81 corridor. So we stopped at my
brother-in-law's place. Without it, we would have spent a miserable
night in the car. While we were only two or three hours to clave
central, both of us were too beat to continue - if you remember it was
about 3 or so in the a.m., and we had been driving about 11 hours.
You didn't seem to have much trouble falling asleep if I remember
correctly.

There are no lies, Dave. I know you would like everyone to think I am
the villian in this story, but I was and still am the victim of that
moment and now of your lies.

Go ahead, have the last word.

Dave

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
news:KRs1j.73913
And this just goes to show why I will never again be a Clavemeister.

--
Ken Fortenberry

trust me, after the first couple of times, you just let the other folks mess
with these details, and it all runs just fine!
Tom