I need help.

On Apr 24, 5:12 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:51:51 -0700, "JT"
wrote:



wrote in message
.. .

Suppose you catch a fish you don't want to eat while fishing for fish you
do want to eat?

TC,
R

Don't be surprised by the response you got.

I'm not surprised by any response around here.

I've asked Mr. Bone the same
question several time, he generally dances around it. In your case, he just
acted dumb...

It's a waste of time trying to get honest answers, many have tired.

Ah, well, see, there's something in my favor - I didn't give a hoot in
hell about the honesty of his answers.



JT
Catch & Release is a conservation effort to protect stream viability for the
future generations, while enjoying the sport of fishing.

"Catch and Release," as in catching targeted fish with the intent of
releasing them, for sporting purposes, is not conservation and it does
nothing to protect "stream viability." The only rational is so that
humans can tell themselves such stuff. If the fish need protecting,
humans shouldn't be fishing for them. Conservation is limiting catches,
slot limits, etc., and there is no need for "conservation" when the fish
are farmed/stocked for the sole purpose of allowing humans to catch
them. There's no reason, on waters that are (objectively) fishable, to
prevent people from releasing "sporting" species (invasive species that
need to be removed are another story) if they wish to, but that does not
translate into the releasing of such fish being necessary or
"conservation."

TC,
R




Now THAT is a definition worth clipping. Stated eloquently, to boot.

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer

Halfordian Golfer wrote:
On Apr 24, 8:41 pm, rw wrote:

Halfordian Golfer wrote:

On Apr 24, 7:23 pm, rw wrote:

Halfordian Golfer wrote:

On Apr 22, 5:51 pm, rw wrote:
[snip]

In Idaho (at least in my parts) the apipose fins of all stocked rainbow
trout are clipped -- not just steelhead. If the fish is a multi-year
holdover its fin is still clipped. They don't grow back. Wild rainbows
(i.e., those with intact apipose fins) must be released.

Hi rw,

I checked with Idaho F&G and I hate to tell you that you've been
releasing stockers.

Oh my God! How can I ever live with myself? :-)

I don't mind releasing stockers. I mind killing wild fish.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Good. I'm glad you fessed up.

For the record, you've conceded that you can not tell the difference
between a streamborn trout and one that was born in a hatchery and
stocked.

That's at least a step in the right direction. I appreciate your
honesty.

Now, we need to understand why you don't mind killing and causing
extinction of your indigenous cutthroat trout by releasing stocked
rainbow.

I follow the regulations.

The regulations stipulate that stream trout with intact adipose fins are
presumed to be wild and must be released, so that's what I do.

I spend most of my time fishing in waters where there is no stocking
whatsoever. ALL of the fish are wild, and must be released according to
the regulations (except for whitefish). These are mostly cutthroat that
migrate upstream during the summer, but there are a few rainbows mixed in.

Occasionally I'll fish in the Main Fork of the Salmon near town just to
catch a creel full. Virtually ALL of those fish I catch, aside from the
odd bull trout, are stockers with clipped fins. I don't believe that a
decent sized trout can even survive in that river over the winter.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.


Why do you suppose that there's no limit on whitefish? They're a
native species right? They're delicious smoked and people (including
myself) will often harvest 40 or more in the fall. According to you
and others here if there weren't regulations they'd be wiped out. Yet,
no limit, people harvest them in the extreme, and...wow...they're
still here.

I keep lots of whitefish, and frequently go out to target them
specifically . So what?

There are PLENTY of whitefish. There aren't plenty of wild trout in the
Main Fork of the Salmon.

I wish they'd stop stocking rainbows, but I don't have a say in it.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Apr 24, 9:22 pm, rw wrote:
Halfordian Golfer wrote:
On Apr 24, 8:41 pm, rw wrote:

Halfordian Golfer wrote:

On Apr 24, 7:23 pm, rw wrote:

Halfordian Golfer wrote:

On Apr 22, 5:51 pm, rw wrote:
[snip]

In Idaho (at least in my parts) the apipose fins of all stocked rainbow
trout are clipped -- not just steelhead. If the fish is a multi-year
holdover its fin is still clipped. They don't grow back. Wild rainbows
(i.e., those with intact apipose fins) must be released.

Hi rw,

I checked with Idaho F&G and I hate to tell you that you've been
releasing stockers.

Oh my God! How can I ever live with myself? :-)

I don't mind releasing stockers. I mind killing wild fish.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Good. I'm glad you fessed up.

For the record, you've conceded that you can not tell the difference
between a streamborn trout and one that was born in a hatchery and
stocked.

That's at least a step in the right direction. I appreciate your
honesty.

Now, we need to understand why you don't mind killing and causing
extinction of your indigenous cutthroat trout by releasing stocked
rainbow.

I follow the regulations.

The regulations stipulate that stream trout with intact adipose fins are
presumed to be wild and must be released, so that's what I do.

I spend most of my time fishing in waters where there is no stocking
whatsoever. ALL of the fish are wild, and must be released according to
the regulations (except for whitefish). These are mostly cutthroat that
migrate upstream during the summer, but there are a few rainbows mixed in.

Occasionally I'll fish in the Main Fork of the Salmon near town just to
catch a creel full. Virtually ALL of those fish I catch, aside from the
odd bull trout, are stockers with clipped fins. I don't believe that a
decent sized trout can even survive in that river over the winter.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Why do you suppose that there's no limit on whitefish? They're a
native species right? They're delicious smoked and people (including
myself) will often harvest 40 or more in the fall. According to you
and others here if there weren't regulations they'd be wiped out. Yet,
no limit, people harvest them in the extreme, and...wow...they're
still here.

I keep lots of whitefish, and frequently go out to target them
specifically . So what?

There are PLENTY of whitefish. There aren't plenty of wild trout in the
Main Fork of the Salmon.

I wish they'd stop stocking rainbows, but I don't have a say in it.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

You do have a say in it.

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer

On Apr 24, 9:22 pm, rw wrote:
Halfordian Golfer wrote:
On Apr 24, 8:41 pm, rw wrote:

Halfordian Golfer wrote:

On Apr 24, 7:23 pm, rw wrote:

Halfordian Golfer wrote:

On Apr 22, 5:51 pm, rw wrote:
[snip]

In Idaho (at least in my parts) the apipose fins of all stocked rainbow
trout are clipped -- not just steelhead. If the fish is a multi-year
holdover its fin is still clipped. They don't grow back. Wild rainbows
(i.e., those with intact apipose fins) must be released.

Hi rw,

I checked with Idaho F&G and I hate to tell you that you've been
releasing stockers.

Oh my God! How can I ever live with myself? :-)

I don't mind releasing stockers. I mind killing wild fish.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Good. I'm glad you fessed up.

For the record, you've conceded that you can not tell the difference
between a streamborn trout and one that was born in a hatchery and
stocked.

That's at least a step in the right direction. I appreciate your
honesty.

Now, we need to understand why you don't mind killing and causing
extinction of your indigenous cutthroat trout by releasing stocked
rainbow.

I follow the regulations.

The regulations stipulate that stream trout with intact adipose fins are
presumed to be wild and must be released, so that's what I do.

I spend most of my time fishing in waters where there is no stocking
whatsoever. ALL of the fish are wild, and must be released according to
the regulations (except for whitefish). These are mostly cutthroat that
migrate upstream during the summer, but there are a few rainbows mixed in.

Occasionally I'll fish in the Main Fork of the Salmon near town just to
catch a creel full. Virtually ALL of those fish I catch, aside from the
odd bull trout, are stockers with clipped fins. I don't believe that a
decent sized trout can even survive in that river over the winter.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Why do you suppose that there's no limit on whitefish? They're a
native species right? They're delicious smoked and people (including
myself) will often harvest 40 or more in the fall. According to you
and others here if there weren't regulations they'd be wiped out. Yet,
no limit, people harvest them in the extreme, and...wow...they're
still here.

I keep lots of whitefish, and frequently go out to target them
specifically . So what?

There are PLENTY of whitefish. There aren't plenty of wild trout in the
Main Fork of the Salmon.

I wish they'd stop stocking rainbows, but I don't have a say in it.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

BTW - I believe that every single last rainbow trout in Idaho is the
direct result of stocking them there or the descendant progeny
thereoef. I could be wrong but I do not think the rainbow trout is
indiginous there and believe there is confusion over the original
distribution, the Columbia, snake and collapse of the ancient arch
blocking upstream migration. Appreciate any additional information.

Anyway, there'd be NO *wild* rainbow trout in Idaho without having
stocked them at some point. If not Idaho than for certain Colorado.

Thus I really, really, really, really, really struggle with people
that simultaneously bash stocking programs while reaping the benefits
of them.

Makes no sense at all, does it?

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer

On Apr 24, 11:17 am, "JT" wrote:
"Halfordian Golfer" wrote in message

...



LOL. And you call me a troll.

OBROFF: I'd still like to hear from the original author what he meant
by "hating to see bait fishermen with stringers of dead fish". I might
owe him an apology and you know I'd rather crap glass from a broken
shiner bock bottle.

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer

Putting words in peoples mouth again eh? He said nothing about dead fish...

The OP's original post:
"I have been out FF four times so far this year. Today I was at the Black
River in Hackelbarney. I have not had any luck yet. I used GRHE,Pheasant
Tail,Royal Coachman Wet, and a Adams dry. I used a 7.5 to 9 FT leader
including tippit( both 4X). The thing that I hate is I see bait guys
with a stringer full of fish.This is basically my second season FF. Is
my lack of success normal. I am tying my own flies, but do buy
sometimes. I dont know what else to try. Any suggestions?"

You misunderstood what he was saying. Do as you will, however I would
suggest you go crap some glass...

Good luck with those demons,
JT
Catch & Release fishing is a conservation effort to protect stream
viability for the future generations, while enjoying the sport of fishing.

JT

If you're going to debate please try to keep up.

The quote was from the "original author" of this thread and was quoted
exactly as typed. I asked him for clarification and he did NOT
respond.

I'll ask again right now: Tim - when you said you hated to see "bait
fishermen with stringers of dead fish" what did you mean.

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:46:45 -0700 (PDT), Halfordian Golfer
wrote:

On Apr 24, 11:17 am, "JT" wrote:
"Halfordian Golfer" wrote in message

...



LOL. And you call me a troll.

OBROFF: I'd still like to hear from the original author what he meant
by "hating to see bait fishermen with stringers of dead fish". I might
owe him an apology and you know I'd rather crap glass from a broken
shiner bock bottle.

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer

Putting words in peoples mouth again eh? He said nothing about dead fish...

The OP's original post:
"I have been out FF four times so far this year. Today I was at the Black
River in Hackelbarney. I have not had any luck yet. I used GRHE,Pheasant
Tail,Royal Coachman Wet, and a Adams dry. I used a 7.5 to 9 FT leader
including tippit( both 4X). The thing that I hate is I see bait guys
with a stringer full of fish.This is basically my second season FF. Is
my lack of success normal. I am tying my own flies, but do buy
sometimes. I dont know what else to try. Any suggestions?"

You misunderstood what he was saying. Do as you will, however I would
suggest you go crap some glass...

Good luck with those demons,
JT
Catch & Release fishing is a conservation effort to protect stream
viability for the future generations, while enjoying the sport of fishing.

JT

If you're going to debate please try to keep up.

The quote was from the "original author" of this thread and was quoted
exactly as typed.

Nope.

I asked him for clarification and he did NOT respond.

He's smarter than many others here? ;-)

I'll ask again right now: Tim - when you said you hated to see "bait
fishermen with stringers of dead fish" what did you mean.

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer

He never used the word "dead".

Here's the OP's first post on this topic:

On Apr 21, 4:06pm, tim wrote:
I have been out FF four times so far this year. Today I was at the Black
River in Hackelbarney. I have not had any luck yet. I used GRHE,Pheasant
Tail,Royal Coachman Wet, and a Adams dry. I used a 7.5 to 9 FT leader
including tippit( both 4X). The thing that I hate is I see bait guys
with a stringer full of fish.This is basically my second season FF. Is
my lack of success normal. I am tying my own flies, but do buy
sometimes. I dont know what else to try. Any suggestions?

/daytripper (for the record)

Moe wrote:

Hey Charlie,

Will you please recommend some reading by Ted?

My most recent read was "Merles Door", which didn't speak all that much
of fishing, aside from hooking up with the dog on the San Juan. You would
enjoy "Bloodties" and "Out There", but "Heart of Home" was the one that
seemed most to mirror the arguments you've made. You ineloquent puke
;^)....

Halfordian Golfer wrote:

BTW - I believe that every single last rainbow trout in Idaho is the
direct result of stocking them there or the descendant progeny
thereoef. I could be wrong but I do not think the rainbow trout is
indiginous there and believe there is confusion over the original
distribution, the Columbia, snake and collapse of the ancient arch
blocking upstream migration. Appreciate any additional information.

Anyway, there'd be NO *wild* rainbow trout in Idaho without having
stocked them at some point. If not Idaho than for certain Colorado.

There are two native strains of rainbows in Idaho: steelhead and desert
redband.


Thus I really, really, really, really, really struggle with people
that simultaneously bash stocking programs while reaping the benefits
of them.

Makes no sense at all, does it?

I'm not "bashing" stocking programs. I merely disagree with them. If
Idaho F&G persists in stocking the Main Salmon, I'll take the fish, and
so will the ospreys.

I'm finished with you. Trip on.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:19:52 -0700 (PDT), Halfordian Golfer
wrote:

On Apr 24, 5:12 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:51:51 -0700, "JT"
wrote:



wrote in message
.. .

Suppose you catch a fish you don't want to eat while fishing for fish you
do want to eat?

TC,
R

Don't be surprised by the response you got.

I'm not surprised by any response around here.

I've asked Mr. Bone the same
question several time, he generally dances around it. In your case, he just
acted dumb...

It's a waste of time trying to get honest answers, many have tired.

Ah, well, see, there's something in my favor - I didn't give a hoot in
hell about the honesty of his answers.



JT
Catch & Release is a conservation effort to protect stream viability for the
future generations, while enjoying the sport of fishing.

"Catch and Release," as in catching targeted fish with the intent of
releasing them, for sporting purposes, is not conservation and it does
nothing to protect "stream viability." The only rational is so that
humans can tell themselves such stuff. If the fish need protecting,
humans shouldn't be fishing for them. Conservation is limiting catches,
slot limits, etc., and there is no need for "conservation" when the fish
are farmed/stocked for the sole purpose of allowing humans to catch
them. There's no reason, on waters that are (objectively) fishable, to
prevent people from releasing "sporting" species (invasive species that
need to be removed are another story) if they wish to, but that does not
translate into the releasing of such fish being necessary or
"conservation."

TC,
R




Now THAT is a definition worth clipping. Stated eloquently, to boot.

What?

HTH,
R

On Apr 24, 5:57*pm, Halfordian Golfer wrote:
On Apr 24, 7:34 pm, Dennis wrote:

if you like you can meet up with myself and some of my friends we fish
the musky and flatbrook * we will put you on some fish and we don't
fish with the baiters either so it could be a good fit

--
Dennis
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Why don't you fish with baiters Dennis?

Best regards,

TBone

I would give $50 to see a pix of the look of your face at a Jersey
style opening day. You would swear off fisheaten and your obsession
for good. But also, as the gentlemen is generously offering, Jersey
does have its class A too, and without C&R its Bladerunner in Waders.
and wall to wall treble hooks.

Dave