As much ROFF as anything

I'm here mainly for the entertainment value and am
rarely disappointed. Then again, my expectations are fairly low. ;-)

Let me guess, you liked "Gigli"?

--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply

Mike Connor wrote:

What price the noble hopes and dreams of all the years?
shadowed now by doubt, frustration, even tears?
lofty thoughts, imagined once of high intent,
enthusiasm, joy, now thwarted, nearly spent.

Comrades, friends, joined by common drive,
wasted, fretful, petty, doomed it seems to strive,
for hurt and insult, hateful barbs and pain,
to what end then? May one find such again?

Who knows? Who cares? The injured least of all,
innocent, but also guilty, unseeing even to the final fall,
whimpering and mewling, still blind as newly born,
ideals forgotten, lives wasted and forlorn.

Fresh wind then? Mayhap consensus for what´s right?
or acceptance of the sad result, the final sorry plight?
A smile, a word, polite discussion, as all for truth and friendship grope,
Who starts? Who ceases?, Who may yet give cause for hope?

If you'll allow me to translate your doggerel, it boils down
to "Can't we all just get along ?".

Well no, we can't. We never have, and we never will. And
thank god for that because if we were to insist that all
of us here cozy up to racists, nitwits, ****tards, SPAMmers
and armed rednecks this place would lose whatever "character"
it enjoys and be as boring as some of the fly fishing boards
people come here to avoid.

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
m...
SNIP
If you'll allow me to translate your doggerel, it boils down
to "Can't we all just get along ?".

Well no, we can't. We never have, and we never will. And
thank god for that because if we were to insist that all
of us here cozy up to racists, nitwits, ****tards, SPAMmers
and armed rednecks this place would lose whatever "character"
it enjoys and be as boring as some of the fly fishing boards
people come here to avoid.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Your "translation" is extremely over-simplified, but not entirely wrong.

There are ways and means to fight for what is right, and one of the least
effective methods is insult and bad manners.

It may well be that we can´t all just get along. Assuming such to be the
case, then why are we all here? Just to waste time with absolutely hopeless
"sounding-off"?

Whatever, my philosophical ramblings, in rhyme or otherwise, will doubtless
prove just as fruitless as the insults and affectations which seem so
prevalent here. It just seems a shame, and an awful waste of time,
opportunities, and valuable resources.

Don´t really know why I even bother reading or posting at all anymore. Like
a number of other things it has become almost meaningless.

TL
MC

Mike Connor wrote:
snip
It may well be that we can´t all just get along. Assuming such to be the
case, then why are we all here? Just to waste time with absolutely hopeless
"sounding-off"?

Exactly. It's fun, it's entertaining, and it costs nothing because
I use DSL for work anyway. It's ALL about wasting time. And don't
say that like it's a bad thing, we all obviously have loads of time
to waste.

... Like
a number of other things it has become almost meaningless.

Yeah, it's a waste of time, but so long as you have friends here,
and I most definitely and emphatically consider you a friend, it's
not meaningless.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Ken Fortenberry wrote:

Mike Connor wrote:

snip
It may well be that we can´t all just get along. Assuming such to be the
case, then why are we all here? Just to waste time with absolutely
hopeless
"sounding-off"?


Exactly. It's fun, it's entertaining,

I'm probably going to regret this, but I am curious about that
statement. I agree that some of the banter and the intellectual
jousting can be entertaining. But the part I don't get is the veiled
(or sometimes, not-so-veiled) threats of physical violence and the
insults that resemble schoolyard taunting.

It doesn't bother me in the sense that I'm offended, it just doesn't
make a lot of sense to me. I've been around newsgroups since 1991, and
spent a good bit of time on political groups, so I've seen my fair share
of the good, bad and ugly (mostly ugly). But I came to expect the worst
when the only common ground those folks had was their hatred of the
opposite side.

Here we supposedly have a common love of ff'ing, and in fact, most
of the participants in the most egregious name-calling have fished
together (and apparently, in some cases even enjoyed it). That's the
part I don't get, and can't really find humor in.

I still follow (most of) the threads, so I guess it's at least
intriguing (in a car-wreck-by-the-highway sense), but why is it
entertaining to call your fellow flyfisherman a poopie head?

Yeah, it's a waste of time, but so long as you have friends here,
and I most definitely and emphatically consider you a friend, it's
not meaningless.

This is not directed (just) at you, Ken, but since you brought up
the idea of friends: It sure seems like a number of folks here have
gone out of their way to alienate any possible friends they might have
had here.

Then what will you be left with?


Chuck Vance

Conan the Librarian wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:

Mike Connor wrote:

snip
It may well be that we can´t all just get along. Assuming such to
be the case, then why are we all here? Just to waste time with
absolutely hopeless
"sounding-off"?


Exactly. It's fun, it's entertaining,

I'm probably going to regret this, but I am curious about that
statement. I agree that some of the banter and the intellectual
jousting can be entertaining. But the part I don't get is the veiled
(or sometimes, not-so-veiled) threats of physical violence and the
insults that resemble schoolyard taunting.

It doesn't bother me in the sense that I'm offended, it just
doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I've been around newsgroups since
1991, and spent a good bit of time on political groups, so I've seen
my fair share of the good, bad and ugly (mostly ugly). But I came to
expect the worst when the only common ground those folks had was
their hatred of the opposite side.

Here we supposedly have a common love of ff'ing, and in fact, most
of the participants in the most egregious name-calling have fished
together (and apparently, in some cases even enjoyed it). That's the
part I don't get, and can't really find humor in.

I still follow (most of) the threads, so I guess it's at least
intriguing (in a car-wreck-by-the-highway sense), but why is it
entertaining to call your fellow flyfisherman a poopie head?

Yeah, it's a waste of time, but so long as you have friends here,
and I most definitely and emphatically consider you a friend, it's
not meaningless.

This is not directed (just) at you, Ken, but since you brought up
the idea of friends: It sure seems like a number of folks here have
gone out of their way to alienate any possible friends they might have
had here.

Then what will you be left with?

Good points all. It occurred to me that we haven't had a good roffian
tragedy in recent times to bring the touch of reality and
meaning-of-life-lesson to focus. I see a post like Frank wrote about his
FIL, or Barry wrote about his father, and it humbles me and makes me
recall a not-so-distant memory. When my son had his snow boarding
accident last year and shattered his back, many of the folks here
rallied around me with support, empathy, and good wishes. This wasn't
just "virtual" to me, my family, or my son, especially when he started
receiving get well cards from people not only that he hadn't met, but I
hadn't met either. Roffians offered more than just well-wishes in the
form of offers to travel and help us any way they could. That stuff is
real to me. On a personal level, I've seen things differently from that
time on. Skies are brighter, the sun's warmth is greater, and ff'ing is
an inspiration. I'm not good at putting how I feel about this stuff into
words like some others here, but this was a life-changing circumstance
in more ways than one, and roff is a part of that. It will not take
another tragedy like that to make me realize what I have and what I hold
dear.

Yeah, maudlin - sue me.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Conan the Librarian wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Mike Connor wrote:
snip
It may well be that we can´t all just get along. Assuming such to be the
case, then why are we all here? Just to waste time with absolutely
hopeless
"sounding-off"?

Exactly. It's fun, it's entertaining,

I'm probably going to regret this, but I am curious about that
statement. ...

Well, I find roff fun and entertaining but an enormous waste of time.
But being an enormous waste of time is a big part of why it's fun and
entertaining. I mean, I come here precisely because I want to take a
little break from the drudgery of wordsmithing and waste a little time.

... But the part I don't get is the veiled
(or sometimes, not-so-veiled) threats of physical violence ...

I absolutely agree. Besides being ridiculous, issuing threats of
physical violence is one of the things that is specifically
prohibited on virtually every ISPs Terms of Agreement. (You can
eliminate the vast majority of them that you see on roff just by
sticking Opie in your killfile.)

This is not directed (just) at you, Ken, but since you brought up the
idea of friends: It sure seems like a number of folks here have gone
out of their way to alienate any possible friends they might have had here.

There's very few folks here who could ever be a close friend of mine.
The overwhelming majority are decent enough fellows with whom I would
be happy to share a stream and a beer at some point and then there's
a very small few with whom I wouldn't want to associate under any
circumstances. Just like "real" life off of Usenet, right ?

Then what will you be left with?

Well, it'll always be an enormous waste of time, it's got that going
for it. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

Ken Fortenberry wrote:

Exactly. It's fun, it's entertaining,

Well, it is nice to know that one has friends of course, but I can´t see
much sense in baiting them, and even less fun in it. That one feels obliged
to refute lies, or slurs, and even rank idiocy, is clear enough, and I have
no argument with that. But friends would not do that to each other anyway?
Even should a friend make a mistake, this would not normally result in any
serious castigation?

Just as an aside really, it seems to me that the longer some people are
here, the worse the baiting becomes. A case perhaps, of familiarity breeding
contempt?

Whatever. Back to occasional lurking.

TL
MC

Conan the Librarian wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:

Mike Connor wrote:

snip
It may well be that we can´t all just get along. Assuming such to
be the case, then why are we all here? Just to waste time with
absolutely hopeless
"sounding-off"?


Exactly. It's fun, it's entertaining,

I'm probably going to regret this, but I am curious about that
statement. I agree that some of the banter and the intellectual
jousting can be entertaining. But the part I don't get is the veiled
(or sometimes, not-so-veiled) threats of physical violence and the
insults that resemble schoolyard taunting.

It doesn't bother me in the sense that I'm offended, it just
doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I've been around newsgroups since
1991, and spent a good bit of time on political groups, so I've seen
my fair share of the good, bad and ugly (mostly ugly). But I came to
expect the worst when the only common ground those folks had was
their hatred of the opposite side.

Here we supposedly have a common love of ff'ing, and in fact, most
of the participants in the most egregious name-calling have fished
together (and apparently, in some cases even enjoyed it). That's the
part I don't get, and can't really find humor in.

I still follow (most of) the threads, so I guess it's at least
intriguing (in a car-wreck-by-the-highway sense), but why is it
entertaining to call your fellow flyfisherman a poopie head?

Yeah, it's a waste of time, but so long as you have friends here,
and I most definitely and emphatically consider you a friend, it's
not meaningless.

This is not directed (just) at you, Ken, but since you brought up
the idea of friends: It sure seems like a number of folks here have
gone out of their way to alienate any possible friends they might have
had here.

Then what will you be left with?

Good points all. It occurred to me that we haven't had a good roffian
tragedy in recent times to bring the touch of reality and
meaning-of-life-lesson to focus. I see a post like Frank wrote about his
FIL, or Barry wrote about his father, and it humbles me and makes me
recall a not-so-distant memory. When my son had his snow boarding
accident last year and shattered his back, many of the folks here
rallied around me with support, empathy, and good wishes. This wasn't
just "virtual" to me, my family, or my son, especially when he started
receiving get well cards from people not only that he hadn't met, but I
hadn't met either. Roffians offered more than just well-wishes in the
form of offers to travel and help us any way they could. That stuff is
real to me. On a personal level, I've seen things differently from that
time on. Skies are brighter, the sun's warmth is greater, and ff'ing is
an inspiration. I'm not good at putting how I feel about this stuff into
words like some others here, but this was a life-changing circumstance
in more ways than one, and roff is a part of that. It will not take
another tragedy like that to make me realize what I have and what I hold
dear.

Yeah, maudlin - sue me.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Conan the Librarian wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Mike Connor wrote:
snip
It may well be that we can´t all just get along. Assuming such to be the
case, then why are we all here? Just to waste time with absolutely
hopeless
"sounding-off"?

Exactly. It's fun, it's entertaining,

I'm probably going to regret this, but I am curious about that
statement. ...

Well, I find roff fun and entertaining but an enormous waste of time.
But being an enormous waste of time is a big part of why it's fun and
entertaining. I mean, I come here precisely because I want to take a
little break from the drudgery of wordsmithing and waste a little time.

... But the part I don't get is the veiled
(or sometimes, not-so-veiled) threats of physical violence ...

I absolutely agree. Besides being ridiculous, issuing threats of
physical violence is one of the things that is specifically
prohibited on virtually every ISPs Terms of Agreement. (You can
eliminate the vast majority of them that you see on roff just by
sticking Opie in your killfile.)

This is not directed (just) at you, Ken, but since you brought up the
idea of friends: It sure seems like a number of folks here have gone
out of their way to alienate any possible friends they might have had here.

There's very few folks here who could ever be a close friend of mine.
The overwhelming majority are decent enough fellows with whom I would
be happy to share a stream and a beer at some point and then there's
a very small few with whom I wouldn't want to associate under any
circumstances. Just like "real" life off of Usenet, right ?

Then what will you be left with?

Well, it'll always be an enormous waste of time, it's got that going
for it. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry