False casting problem

Jack Sorry, but if the line is hitting your rod, you have a tailing
Jack loop. If th line is not above the tip of the rod, it is
Jack tailing.

That's what I thought at one point too, but I don't think that this is
necessarily true. Think about the pendulum / underhand cast, for
example: there the line would *definitely* hit the rod if the cast
would be done vertically, but you can do it with or without tailing
loops.

http://www.sexyloops.com/flycasting/tunderhand.shtml

Jack If you are casting a lot of line, 40' plus, it is difficult to
Jack keep the line above the tip of the rod.

Why? If the line would drop below the tip of the rod, then it would
hit the rod, right? Referring to your comment above, would this mean
that with 40' plus of line, you tend to create tailing loops? If not,
then why is it difficult to keep 40' plus of line above the rod tip?
I'm not being a smartass here, I'm just trying to explore the problem.

--
Jarmo Hurri

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Jack Sorry, but if the line is hitting your rod, you have a tailing
Jack loop. If th line is not above the tip of the rod, it is
Jack tailing.

That's what I thought at one point too, but I don't think that this is
necessarily true. Think about the pendulum / underhand cast, for
example: there the line would *definitely* hit the rod if the cast
would be done vertically, but you can do it with or without tailing
loops.

http://www.sexyloops.com/flycasting/tunderhand.shtml

Jack If you are casting a lot of line, 40' plus, it is difficult to
Jack keep the line above the tip of the rod.

Why? If the line would drop below the tip of the rod, then it would
hit the rod, right? Referring to your comment above, would this mean
that with 40' plus of line, you tend to create tailing loops? If not,
then why is it difficult to keep 40' plus of line above the rod tip?
I'm not being a smartass here, I'm just trying to explore the problem.

--
Jarmo Hurri

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Chris Jarmo, this is a challenge for me as well. What has helped me
Chris is to have a fellow fly fisherman, or a casting clinic at your
Chris local fly fishing club, watch my casting and give me advice. I
Chris can see casting problems with other people pretty readily, but
Chris not in myself.

Good idea. In fact, I think I should encourage our fishing club to
have a casting clinic.

A video camera would be very nice, but unfortunately I don't have
one. Hmm, maybe with one of those newer digital cameras...

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Jarmo Hurri

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Chris Jarmo, this is a challenge for me as well. What has helped me
Chris is to have a fellow fly fisherman, or a casting clinic at your
Chris local fly fishing club, watch my casting and give me advice. I
Chris can see casting problems with other people pretty readily, but
Chris not in myself.

Good idea. In fact, I think I should encourage our fishing club to
have a casting clinic.

A video camera would be very nice, but unfortunately I don't have
one. Hmm, maybe with one of those newer digital cameras...

--
Jarmo Hurri

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Scott I really recommend "Troubleshooting the Cast" by Jaworowski.
Scott You need more vertical hand movement downward at the end of the
Scott forward cast.

I have the book, and I've tried that - didn't solve the
situation.

Actually, I think that the problem is worse on my backcast than on the
forward cast. Hmm, traditionally the casting sequence is described as
(starting with the line in front)

1. loading move
2. power snap backwards
3. upwards drift
4. loading move
5. power snap forward
6. downwards drift / followup

The vertical hand movement you refer to takes place during the forward
power snap. Since/if my problem is worse on the backcast, maybe my
backwards power snap stops too high?

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Jarmo Hurri

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"Jarmo Hurri" wrote in message
...
SNIP
The vertical hand movement you refer to takes place during the forward
power snap. Since/if my problem is worse on the backcast, maybe my
backwards power snap stops too high?

--
Jarmo Hurri


Try it without the "power snap". If this solves the problem, the snap is
causing you to throw a tailing loop. Concentrate on smooth acceleration,
and an abrupt stop.

TL
MC

Mike That is a tailing loop problem, possibly combined with other
Mike faults.

Now there's an encouraging opening. :-)

So, since I don't have tailing loops, I have two theories of what
happens during my normal casting:

1. I tilt the plane during the backcast to avoid the collision of the
line with itself. Someone referred to this already above: having a
different plane of cast for the forward and backward casts. Think
about the following situation: tilted rod, low forward cast
(inclined towards water/ground), followed by a fairly low backward
cast (for example, horizontal), that is, too much wrist or
something similar on the backcast. In this case the backward cast
would not lift the line above the rod tip. Looking from the side,
the cast would create a tailing loop, with the line crossing itself
somewhere fairly close behind the rod tip. But the line would not
tangle with itself, if I raise the tip to a vertical position after
the backcast. The line traveling backwards would be in a different
plane than the line traveling forward. I think this is likely the
thing that's happening.

2. I am in fact casting pendulum casts backwards. I don't think this
is very likely, since I can cast a pendulum cast, and it's
different.

I have a question to you, Mike. (It's actually a variant of the one I
posed to Jack above.) Is it more difficult to keep the line above the
rod tip in a perfectly vertical cast with a longer line? If so, why?
Is it just that the line has more time to drop below its initial
level. If not, what is required of the cast?

I will starting doing the exercises (a.k.a. back to the drawing board)
once the thermometer rises above the freezing poing again. Could be in
a couple of days, could take 4 months. Ah yes, the weather forecast
predicts +2C for tomorrow, with sleet and a wind of 16 m/s. :-)

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Jarmo Hurri

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Mike Having seen you cast, I suspect you are overpowering.

At some particular stage of the cast, or just in general?

Mike Go back to the basic cast, as described above, and follow it
Mike from there.

Yep, will do that when conditions permit. Making theories until
then. :-)

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Jarmo Hurri

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"Jarmo Hurri" wrote in message
...
SNIP
I have a question to you, Mike. (It's actually a variant of the one I
posed to Jack above.) Is it more difficult to keep the line above the
rod tip in a perfectly vertical cast with a longer line? If so, why?
Is it just that the line has more time to drop below its initial
level. If not, what is required of the cast?


Not really, the timing is important, but not the time per se. The longer
the line, the more power required, and the more accurate the timing has to
be. People tend to let the line drop too much, often as a result of having
thrown it too low in the first place, and then try to compensate by adding
more power abruptly. This causes a tailing loop.

Too abrupt power application anywhere, will cause tailing loops. As will
dipping the rod tip.

"Snapping" can cause all sorts of problems.

Leraning to drift properly will help. Do a search on "Sexyloops", for
"Drift" and "Drifting". This takes any excess power out of the cast.

TL
MC

"Jarmo Hurri" wrote in message
...

Mike Having seen you cast, I suspect you are overpowering.

At some particular stage of the cast, or just in general?



I suspect the "snap" is the main problem, coupled with throwing the line
down behind you.

Leave out the snap, and throw the line UP not back.

TL
MC