New boat search beginning (with quesion at end)...

"Richard Liebert" wrote in message
...
Spring is a bad time of year to buy a boat.

Last day of month is a good day to buy a car and hopefully a boat. Your
salesmen might have to meet a monthly quota. In a large store with lots of
salesmen you may inadvertently pit the salesmen against each other.

If everything else fails, leave. Walking away is your most powerful tool.
Actually it's your only tool. Time is all you really have going for you.
The
one thing a salesman truly cannot handle is the customer getting up and
leaving. You really have to be prepared to walk.

No kidding. Salesman will get downright upset sometimes when you walk out.
Especially guys who work off a hard sell formula. But seriously. Having
bought boats, motorcycles, and trucks both new and used over the years I
have definitely learned that walking out is a valuable tool. One saleman
recently who was trying to sell me a motorcycle was screaming numbers at me
when I was headed out the door. If he hadn't been so unproffessional I
might have listened at that point. The numbers he was yelling at my back
were actually starting to get close to NADA price guide. To bad for him I
never buy from somebody I wouldn't feel comfortabel dealing with in the
future.

When you walk, mention that tomorrow is another day and maybe you'll
"start
over", that way you don't shut the door behind you but you will intimidate
the salesman.


I would not leave it that open. I would go for something a little stronger
like, "Is that really the best you can do?" pause for answer. "Thank you
for your time." Then if you are sitting down immediately stand out and
stick out your hand.

If you have to deal with a hard sell environment there are a couple tricks
to watch out for.

1. If you don't have the money I am sure we can work something out.
(means they are sidetracking you from the price)
2. Let me have your driver's license so I can do some preliminary
paperwork. (means they are going to hold your license hostage to keep you
from walking out. Call the police if they try.)
3. Lets go sit down. (Its a tactic to see how committed you are to the
purchase)

Absolutely do not say you plan to buy that boat with those feature until you
have a good price on the boat. Have some options open. Contact dealers all
over the country via interent. Most are afraid to give you a price, but
some will. Also, call all the dealers in your region on the phone. Never
make a deal over the phone.


Hopefully you'll get a phone call later in the day or the next day. If so,
continue to negotiate, they won't call with their best deal, but they will
be close, very close.


Maybe you will get a call. It will not necessarily be their best price, but
it should be better. You can still negotiate for options if it is a good
price with something like, "Thats an ok price, but there are some things I
need to put on right away and that price won't allow me to afford to do
that." Be very wary of this answer. At that point you will not be able to
budge them one penny on the price.


Good luck, please post your experience. I think everyone would like to
hear
what happens.


Boat dealers are salepeople. If you have ever negotaited a good deal on a
car or hada good or bad expereince with any kind of dealership reflect on
that and try to figure out what you could have done better.

I now have a guy at one of the local Chevy dealerships that has learned to
start at the bottom and figure out what I want. I already know what price I
will pay when I walk in his office so he doesn't waste either of our time.
I pay very close to GM employee discount price. I have purchased three
trucks at that dealership in the last 2 years for my business.

Good luck
--
Bob La Londe
www.YumaBassMan.com
All about fishing in Yuma, Arizona
Promote Your Fishing Website FOR FREE

"Richard Liebert" wrote in message
...
Spring is a bad time of year to buy a boat.

Last day of month is a good day to buy a car and hopefully a boat. Your
salesmen might have to meet a monthly quota. In a large store with lots of
salesmen you may inadvertently pit the salesmen against each other.

If everything else fails, leave. Walking away is your most powerful tool.
Actually it's your only tool. Time is all you really have going for you.
The
one thing a salesman truly cannot handle is the customer getting up and
leaving. You really have to be prepared to walk.

When you walk, mention that tomorrow is another day and maybe you'll
"start
over", that way you don't shut the door behind you but you will intimidate
the salesman.

Hopefully you'll get a phone call later in the day or the next day. If so,
continue to negotiate, they won't call with their best deal, but they will
be close, very close.

Good luck, please post your experience. I think everyone would like to
hear
what happens.

Thanks Richard, Sound advice. I'll be sure to document my experience if
this comes to fruition...
--
Andrew Kidd
http://www.amiasoft.com/ - Software for the rest of us!
http://www.rofb.net/ - ROFB Newsgroup Home

"Craig Baugher" wrote in message
...
Kidd Wrote: "Any comments from anyone about the boats I've mentioned or
any
help in how far I might be able to haggle some of these prices down?"

Two ways to get that price down, but you need to be ready to buy now!
There
are BIG markup in boats and outboards. First is to go to your local
marina
carrying the boat you want. Look up their pro staff members and talk to
them about buying their boat. Usually you get a huge discount.


Good stuff snipped


They may shoot you another price, or give you a walking speech. "Love to
have your business Mr. Kidd, if you change your mind or find Marina X to
be
less than you expected, I would love to earn your business." If they give
you the speech, they may be at their best price, or you gave them a strong
indication you prefer their product. I don't let somebody walk unless one
of the above is true.

--
Craig Baugher


Thanks Craig... These suggestions sound excellent, and are exactly what I
was looking for. To be honest, I'm way too nice a guy with negotiations
....but I'm trying to work on that.
Last truck I bought (with GM Class A disc), I got my trade-in truck up
past the book price for wholesale. That was a start. I feel like this
negotiation will be better yet, cause I am totally in the driver seat with
financing, and I'm staying flexible enough to walk away from a deal I don't
like... These hints will help greatly. I definitely was prepared to walk
away, but the subtlety of the leaning-in tactic is great.... I would never
have thought about that one.
--
Andrew Kidd
http://www.amiasoft.com/ - Software for the rest of us!
http://www.rofb.net/ - ROFB Newsgroup Home

andrew:

i'm just jealous you get to go shop for a new boat. the new ones ARE
breathtaking (i really like the sonar/gps surface mounted in the dash
and bow)

but my 9 year old ranger commanche is sooo sweet, i could never justify
replacing it.

good luck!
calvin.


Andrew Kidd wrote:
"Craig Baugher" wrote in message
...

Kidd Wrote: "Any comments from anyone about the boats I've mentioned or

any

help in how far I might be able to haggle some of these prices down?"

Two ways to get that price down, but you need to be ready to buy now!

There

are BIG markup in boats and outboards. First is to go to your local

marina

carrying the boat you want. Look up their pro staff members and talk to
them about buying their boat. Usually you get a huge discount.



Good stuff snipped

They may shoot you another price, or give you a walking speech. "Love to
have your business Mr. Kidd, if you change your mind or find Marina X to

be

less than you expected, I would love to earn your business." If they give
you the speech, they may be at their best price, or you gave them a strong
indication you prefer their product. I don't let somebody walk unless one
of the above is true.

--
Craig Baugher



Thanks Craig... These suggestions sound excellent, and are exactly what I
was looking for. To be honest, I'm way too nice a guy with negotiations
...but I'm trying to work on that.
Last truck I bought (with GM Class A disc), I got my trade-in truck up
past the book price for wholesale. That was a start. I feel like this
negotiation will be better yet, cause I am totally in the driver seat with
financing, and I'm staying flexible enough to walk away from a deal I don't
like... These hints will help greatly. I definitely was prepared to walk
away, but the subtlety of the leaning-in tactic is great.... I would never
have thought about that one.

snip
I definitely was prepared to walk
away, but the subtlety of the leaning-in tactic is great.... I would never
have thought about that one.

I had a boss that always tried to be higher than whoever he was
negotiating with. For his guests in his office, he had an overstuffed
armchair with a stiff, uncomfortable back. When you sat down in it, you
would sink low. Whenever I needed to have the upper hand, I would sit on
one of the chair arms, like you might do if you were only going to be
there for a minute. This placed my head well above his, and you could
tell it threw him off. After a while he replaced the chair with an
armless one, and wouldn't sit down until after you did.

lean in = control
folded arms = closed attitude
open arms and legs = open attitude

Experienced salesmen know body language, and some can tell from this
that even though you are saying no, there is still room for negotiation.
Start with open, friendly body language, and when you are putting your
foot down, do just that. Put your feet flat on the floor and fold your
arms. That will reinforce to him that there you are not giving any more
ground. It never hurts to check your watch now and then, either. It
makes them worry that they are going to lose you.

Henry wrote: "Experienced salesmen know body language, and some can tell
from this that even though you are saying no, there is still room for
negotiation. Start with open, friendly body language, and when you are
putting your foot down, do just that. Put your feet flat on the floor and
fold your arms. That will reinforce to him that there you are not giving any
more ground. It never hurts to check your watch now and then, either. It
makes them worry that they are going to lose you."

We are trained in the art of body language. So we observe everything,
including:
1. Your eyes (especially the direction in which they are focused, and pupil
size - are you telling me the truth, are you lying, are you excited, are you
scared, are you mad) the eyes tell you a great deal.
2. Your skin tone (coloration speaks volumes - especially where the color is
strongest, and where it is the weakest means a great deal).
3. Your respiration (speed, depth)
4. skin perspiration
5. Your Hands, positioning and movement.
And so on, and so on. . .


--
Craig Baugher

"Henry Hefner" wrote in message
...

snip
I definitely was prepared to walk
away, but the subtlety of the leaning-in tactic is great.... I would
never
have thought about that one.

I had a boss that always tried to be higher than whoever he was
negotiating with. For his guests in his office, he had an overstuffed
armchair with a stiff, uncomfortable back. When you sat down in it, you
would sink low. Whenever I needed to have the upper hand, I would sit on
one of the chair arms, like you might do if you were only going to be
there for a minute. This placed my head well above his, and you could
tell it threw him off. After a while he replaced the chair with an
armless one, and wouldn't sit down until after you did.

lean in = control
folded arms = closed attitude
open arms and legs = open attitude

Experienced salesmen know body language, and some can tell from this
that even though you are saying no, there is still room for negotiation.
Start with open, friendly body language, and when you are putting your
foot down, do just that. Put your feet flat on the floor and fold your
arms. That will reinforce to him that there you are not giving any more
ground. It never hurts to check your watch now and then, either. It
makes them worry that they are going to lose you.


Again, more great suggestions! Thanks Henry...
--
Andrew Kidd
http://www.amiasoft.com/ - Software for the rest of us!
http://www.rofb.net/ - ROFB Newsgroup Home

Awesome Craig... You're experience as a car salesman is showing, and I'm
glad to see that someone here is willing to share the secrets of car sales.
These guys can really do a number on you, and you never knew what hit you
until the about a week later.
--
Charles B. Summers
Secret Weapon Lures
http://www.secretweaponlures.com


"Craig Baugher" wrote in message
...
Kidd Wrote: "Any comments from anyone about the boats I've mentioned or
any
help in how far I might be able to haggle some of these prices down?"

Two ways to get that price down, but you need to be ready to buy now!
There
are BIG markup in boats and outboards. First is to go to your local
marina
carrying the boat you want. Look up their pro staff members and talk to
them about buying their boat. Usually you get a huge discount.

Method two: Pure art of negotiation. Know the boat you want, and know its
competition (both the marina's and another boat brand). In negotiations,
the
one who is asking the questions, is the one in control. Know pricing,
going
interest rates, and terms. Know the boat's features so when the salesman
goes to demonstrate them, you rattle them off and explain the advantages
and
disadvantages (to the boat you are look at and it competition). Keep that
salesman off balance, so that he or she is off their game. Be very direct
(matter of fact). Never let them see you smile, Never say you like a
feature or that it is important.

When you sit down, lean into them. They are trained to lean into you to
keep pressure on you and to stay in control. If you lean into them, you
will throw them off guard and they are likely to lean back in their chair
or
away from you. If they do, you are in control. Begin to ask them for
their
best price. They will tell you a price and wait for your objection.
Leaning into them even further, "John, you or your manager can do better
than that. I'm buying a boat TODAY, either from you or Marina X. You
have
1 minute to convince me, and I don't want to hear about the features, or
your marina. I want to hear a price that going to make me stay here.
Because once I get up, I'm gone." If it was me, I would smile at you, and
say something like: "Ok, Mr. Kidd, what price would it take to make you
stay
and buy that boat now, knowing I'm selling it for X?" My attempt to gain
control again, because if you give me a price, I'm going to write it down
with a statement like: "I will buy product X at X price today!" and then
ask
you to sign it. Your price may not be what I want to hear, but it may be
better than the best price I or my GM could give you. Then I would ask
you
to complete a credit application, and take whatever money I can get out
of
you as your down payment. Then I would walk it into my GM to talk. The
GM
may accept the offer or counter. But I have your money, your signature
and
most people at that point believe they are committed. (You lose)

Instead, say: "John, I suggest you go sit with your manager and the two of
you come up with your best price. This will not be a back and forth
process. The two of you have one shot to convince me. I'm buying a boat
today, is it going to be with you or with Marina X?" If they even try to
say or do anything but head for their manager, get up and start walking
for
the manager's desk. The salesman will go to their manager, and they will
shoot you a price. If it is acceptable, GREAT, if not, get up, shake
their
hand and tell them: "Gentlemen, it was nice talking with you. But I have
to see a man at Marina X about buying a boat Today! You have my cell
number, if you have a better offer, you have 5 minutes. After that, I
will
be too far away for me to turn around. Nice meeting you, Have a good
day.",
then walk and drive away.

They may shoot you another price, or give you a walking speech. "Love to
have your business Mr. Kidd, if you change your mind or find Marina X to
be
less than you expected, I would love to earn your business." If they give
you the speech, they may be at their best price, or you gave them a strong
indication you prefer their product. I don't let somebody walk unless one
of the above is true.

--
Craig Baugher

lol charles,

I could teach you everything, but if you run across a master (which I am
not), you're done. They can make you think crap smells good and convince
you that you need to have a ton of it in your trunk. You'll not only buy
the car, but the crap too, all for about $3,000 more than the sticker, and
walk out thinking what a great guy he is and what a great deal you got.

I'm working a master now, and I am amazed by him everyday. He NEVER LIES,
But he does knows how to make the worst thing in the world sound good and
something you must have!

--
Craig Baugher

My dad sold cars as long as I can remember. Well, that was until Alzheimers
put an end to that about two years ago. He was a master...! LOL

I've overheard some of the methods he used, but luckily none of it ever
rubbed off on me.

--
Charles B. Summers
Secret Weapon Lures
http://www.secretweaponlures.com


"Craig Baugher" wrote in message
...
lol charles,

I could teach you everything, but if you run across a master (which I am
not), you're done. They can make you think crap smells good and convince
you that you need to have a ton of it in your trunk. You'll not only buy
the car, but the crap too, all for about $3,000 more than the sticker, and
walk out thinking what a great guy he is and what a great deal you got.

I'm working a master now, and I am amazed by him everyday. He NEVER LIES,
But he does knows how to make the worst thing in the world sound good and
something you must have!

--
Craig Baugher