Good Riddance to 'Clave Raffles

On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 02:57:09 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

That's very generous of you, thanks. By my calculation me
and Kipper at Lakewood would cost $175/day. I just may
take you up on that one of these years.

Anytime your want.

On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 21:28:13 -0700, rw
wrote:

If I were you I'd take the cash.

If you were him you wouldn't get invited, Putz.

If so, it's a shame it's come to that. In many respects, there
have been sad laments as to how ROFF isn't what it used to be, blah,
blah, blah. People come, people go, and the overall personality may
change a bit; but it's still essentially SSDD. But bitching about
the clave raffles? What's next, complaints about the quality of fly
swap flies?

Now, I've been to a few claves and was a one-time Penns Clave
rafflemeister, and I'll allow as to there having always been some
grumbling about inequities in the booty distribution; but this is the
first I've noticed (and granted, I haven't been paying attention)
that the nature of the raffles has changed to the point that people
give donations with an expectation of receiving some return of greater
or equal value. I'm chagrined.

Why back in the "good ol' days", I remember when folks used to donate
stuff out of the goodness of their ROFF souls. ROFFians would send
stuff in with no expectation of receiving *anything* in return, much
less complaining about a gift from another. Zimbo's bamboo, Mike
C's rods, and Frank's quilt are but a few of the wonderfully
generous items once donated out of generosity, not of greed. These
events were supposed to be for fun, not profit. (I mean, who really
wants a Big Mouth Billy Bass?). IMHO, if anyone donates to a raffle
just to be eligible to receive a prize, they should just stay the hell
out of it.

I don't know who or under what circumstances your donation was
criticized; but if that's what the raffles have become, then good
riddance indeed.

Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 21:28:13 -0700, rw
wrote:


If I were you I'd take the cash.


If you were him you wouldn't get invited, Putz.

I've now heard the same thing about you from three different people. You
act like you're generous, but when you don't get the ass kissing you
think you deserve then you get surly and start complaining about being
taken advantage of. If you were truly generous you wouldn't advertise it
on ROFF. You could email Fortenberry your invitation instead of posting
on ROFF, but that would defeat your purpose, which is to be seen as a
kind of beneficent wealthy patriarch. It's a terrible character flaw,
and I'm surprised that at your advanced age you haven't learned it
doesn't make you friends, but enemies.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"rb608" wrote in message
oups.com...
If so, it's a shame it's come to that. In many respects, there
have been sad laments as to how ROFF isn't what it used to be, blah,
blah, blah. People come, people go, and the overall personality may
change a bit; but it's still essentially SSDD. But bitching about
the clave raffles? What's next, complaints about the quality of fly
swap flies?

Now, I've been to a few claves and was a one-time Penns Clave
rafflemeister, and I'll allow as to there having always been some
grumbling about inequities in the booty distribution; but this is the
first I've noticed (and granted, I haven't been paying attention)
that the nature of the raffles has changed to the point that people
give donations with an expectation of receiving some return of greater
or equal value. I'm chagrined.

Why back in the "good ol' days", I remember when folks used to donate
stuff out of the goodness of their ROFF souls. ROFFians would send
stuff in with no expectation of receiving *anything* in return, much
less complaining about a gift from another. Zimbo's bamboo, Mike
C's rods, and Frank's quilt are but a few of the wonderfully
generous items once donated out of generosity, not of greed. These
events were supposed to be for fun, not profit. (I mean, who really
wants a Big Mouth Billy Bass?). IMHO, if anyone donates to a raffle
just to be eligible to receive a prize, they should just stay the hell
out of it.

I don't know who or under what circumstances your donation was
criticized; but if that's what the raffles have become, then good
riddance indeed.

This isn't the first time this matter of raffle prizes has come up. It
surfaces periodically and it's pretty much the same bunch that whines about
giving too much and getting too little. It's part of the cost of doing
business in a forum like this, where people can air grievances (real or
imagined) that stem naturally from more or less haphazard face to face
encounters. For that matter, it's also a perfectly natural part of the cost
of doing business regardless of whether face to face encounters occur. None
of this is surprising. Nor should anyone find it particularly distressing.
What IS surprising.....and bears remembering.....is that so many people here
who, as far a they know (at least at first), have little in common besides
an interest in fly fishing have gotten together so many times and generally
gotten along so well together. Also worth remembering is that, frequent
lamentations notwithstanding, this is still a good virtual place to come to.

Wolfgang

Wolfgang typed:
"rb608" wrote in message
oups.com...
If so, it's a shame it's come to that. In many respects, there
have been sad laments as to how ROFF isn't what it used to be, blah,
blah, blah. People come, people go, and the overall personality may
change a bit; but it's still essentially SSDD. But bitching about
the clave raffles? What's next, complaints about the quality of fly
swap flies?
snip
What IS
surprising.....and bears remembering.....is that so many people here
who, as far a they know (at least at first), have little in common
besides an interest in fly fishing have gotten together so many times
and generally gotten along so well together. Also worth remembering
is that, frequent lamentations notwithstanding, this is still a good
virtual place to come to.

Let's take a poll: Who *WAS* happy with their clave raffle prize? I'll go
first - I was perfectly happy with my gain. Unfortunately, no one ever
claimed the prize I donated, and since I wasn't in attendance to force the
issue, this puts me forever in someone's debt.
--
TL,
Tim
-------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

On 4/11/06 12:20 PM, in article , "Tim J."
wrote:

Wolfgang typed:
"rb608" wrote in message
oups.com...
If so, it's a shame it's come to that. In many respects, there
have been sad laments as to how ROFF isn't what it used to be, blah,
blah, blah. People come, people go, and the overall personality may
change a bit; but it's still essentially SSDD. But bitching about
the clave raffles? What's next, complaints about the quality of fly
swap flies?
snip
What IS
surprising.....and bears remembering.....is that so many people here
who, as far a they know (at least at first), have little in common
besides an interest in fly fishing have gotten together so many times
and generally gotten along so well together. Also worth remembering
is that, frequent lamentations notwithstanding, this is still a good
virtual place to come to.

Let's take a poll: Who *WAS* happy with their clave raffle prize? I'll go
first - I was perfectly happy with my gain. Unfortunately, no one ever
claimed the prize I donated, and since I wasn't in attendance to force the
issue, this puts me forever in someone's debt.

I wrote-but-didn't-post a reply to Ken yesterday saying that I've enjoyed
the two raffles in which I have participated and would be sad to see them
disappear. First one I can't remember what I won, but at the second I got
two dozen Big Dale flies and hell, BD wasn't even at the clave! I plan on
using one of those prince nymphs this evening, BD. I hear tell the
steelhead are taking them.

Neither of these raffles had rules about how much or how little you could
spend (or not spend) on your entry, and the gifts ranged from the ridiculous
(that goofy hat) to the sublime (the infamous Zimboo rod which Dan'l
occasionally caresses). There was a beautiful handmade knife at one. Like
Frank's quilt, it would be hard to match that with a purchased raffle gift,
if you are concerned about dollar amounts.

I would have loved that first aid kit, Ken. I carry the "Optimist" in my
day pack, the "Fundamentals" in my backpack.

I gave books. Go figure. :-) Roger took a first edition copy of "Trout
Madness" back to Sweden with him, although the vultures were circling that
one, and he might have traded.

I think the one thing I like about raffle night at Penns is it is the one
evening where nearly all attendees will be together*, and, if nothing else,
a great photo opportunity. And a chance to see Joel perform :-)

A big fan of paying it forward, and wondering if this is one of those "woods
for the trees" situations,
Bill

*although two years ago there was one evening where it seemed like we were
testing the limits of how many ROFFians could fit on the porch of Tom and
Mike's trailer...

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
om...
Having been accused in another thread of bringing a
$5 item to a $20 raffle I must protest. In the first
place it was a $10 raffle and this is what I brought:

http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/...w_mou_solo.htm

I carry one in my vest and I thought it was a practical,
useful raffle gift.


I thought Ken's raffle was very practical:
http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/images/pd.../sam-mummy.jpg
-tom

On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 07:10:52 -0700, rw
wrote:

It's a terrible character flaw,
and I'm surprised that at your advanced age you haven't learned it
doesn't make you friends, but enemies.

I don't hang around this nut house to make friends or enemies. It
doesn';t matter. My friends know who I am, and that is all I care,
about, Putz.

On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:17:26 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:


"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
. com...
Having been accused in another thread of bringing a
$5 item to a $20 raffle I must protest. In the first
place it was a $10 raffle and this is what I brought:

http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/...w_mou_solo.htm

I carry one in my vest and I thought it was a practical,
useful raffle gift.


I thought Ken's raffle was very practical:
http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/images/pd.../sam-mummy.jpg
-tom


So did I. But the person receiving it sure as hell didn't. And
because I was the raffle meister, I took the crap, not Ken. Go
figure.

Dave