Knot to replace Blood Knot?

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 19:23:00 GMT, "Sunny_B"
wrote:

What Tool???
Sunny_B

If it has a name, I have long ago forgotten it. It is the brass tool
demonstrated at the fly shows. To tie the clinch knot, thread the
fly, make a loop, stick the tool in the loop and twist around the loop
5 or 6 times, then reach through the loop with the tool, grasp the
bitter end of the tippet and pull it through the looop. Release the
tool, wet the knot and pull tight.

For the double surgeon's knot, make a loop with the end of the leader
and one end of the tippet held together. Reach through the loop and
make two (or three) twists. Then, grab the longest end of the tippet
and the short end of the leader with the tool, pull completely through
the loop. Tighten by pulling on all four parts of the knot (leader
and tippet, short ends of leader and tippet).

The same knots can be tied with your forceps using the instructions
above. If I lose my tying tool (every couple of years or so), I use
my forceps.

There are other knots that can be tied with this tool, but the two
mentioned above are all I need.

Dave

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 19:23:00 GMT, "Sunny_B"
wrote:

What Tool???
Sunny_B

If it has a name, I have long ago forgotten it.

Can you take it picture of it or find it on the web...we would like to see
it.
-tom

On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 13:04:54 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:

Can you take it picture of it or find it on the web...we would like to see
it.

Here is one made of plastic and stainless steel.

http://www.knottying.com/

The top of the yellow plastic is spring loaded and slides down
revealing a jaw on the tip of the stainless steel end, used to grasp
the line and pull it through the loops of either a clinch knot or a
double surgeon's knot.

I prefer my all brass model, but the plastic one works just as well.
And, with a little practice, so does your forceps.

Dave

riverman wrote:
http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/Zeppelin.html

I just tried it on two pieces of 4x, and it seems very strong and is
quite easy to tie. Its not as simple as the Surgeons Knot, but it has
the advantage that it leaves a linear knot, and its much easier than a
Blood Knot.

What do others think...is this a good leader-tippet or tippet-tippet
knot? I wonder if its even worth doing two or more passes through
rather than the one.

No opinion on efficacy of the knot. However, I did look at the website
and then checked the information presented there against Ashley. I was
mildy suprised to find that the knot wasn't listed under either of the
names given on the website. According to the footnote on the website,
the knot was in use in the 30s (not surprising for a knot named after
Zeppelins). "The Ashley Book of Knots" was first published in 1944.

Another note on the website states that the Zeppelin knot is not the
same thing as the Rigger's bend/Hunter's bend. This one DOES show up
in Ashley under the label 1425A, described on page 260 and illustrated
on the following page. Looking at the illustration, I'm inclined to
agree both with the statement that it is not the same knot and that it
looks pretty much the same upon completion. However, knots are
tricky....that's why they're fun. As any knot maven will declare
(correctly), a knot that differs in any respect.....even in the tiniest
detail.....is a different knot. But....and this is a very important
qualification.....that is true only of the finished product. How you
get there doesn't matter. And two processes that look radically
different in illustration (knots are notoriously difficult to
illustrate anyway) may end up in identical products.

For what it's worth.

Wolfgang
is there a topologist in the house?

riverman wrote:
http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/Zeppelin.html

I just tried it on two pieces of 4x, and it seems very strong and is
quite easy to tie. Its not as simple as the Surgeons Knot, but it has
the advantage that it leaves a linear knot, and its much easier than a
Blood Knot.

What do others think...is this a good leader-tippet or tippet-tippet
knot? I wonder if its even worth doing two or more passes through
rather than the one.

--riverman

Here is a knot for consideration and testing. I never committed the
time to learn to efficiently tie blood knots, but many years ago
started tying a clinch to clinch knot for my tippet connections. The
result is a knot that looks very similar to a blood knot. I can do
this knot very quickly while on stream. Back when I first started
fooling around with this knot, I performed a very simple test comparing
this knot to a true blood knot.

I took two equal lengths of the same X tippet. Two ends were tied
together using a blood knot, the other two ends were tied together
using two clinch knots. I then used two screwdriver handles to stretch
test the leader material/knots. It seemed that the two different knots
broke in alternating order. My conclusion, not overly scientific, was
that the two knots were similar in strength. I've been using nothing
but the clinch to clinch knot ever since.

Give this knot a try, and if anyone does test it against a true blood
knot, please post your results.

Jeff

wrote:

Here is a knot for consideration and testing. I never committed the
time to learn to efficiently tie blood knots, but many years ago
started tying a clinch to clinch knot for my tippet connections.

That's a terrible knot. Did you learn it from Wayno? :-)

It may test strong when freshly tied, but it will soon weaken because of
the tight 180-degree bend around the clinch-knot loops.

Learn the Surgeon's Knot, dude. It's easy.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"rw" wrote in message
m...
wrote:

Here is a knot for consideration and testing. I never committed the
time to learn to efficiently tie blood knots, but many years ago
started tying a clinch to clinch knot for my tippet connections.

That's a terrible knot. Did you learn it from Wayno? :-)

It may test strong when freshly tied, but it will soon weaken because of
the tight 180-degree bend around the clinch-knot loops.

Learn the Surgeon's Knot, dude. It's easy.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Use it consistently for nymphing (the doubled cinch). Have tested it over
time versus the surgeon's knot variations and it holds up. I also use
Flouro for nymphing which may have an impact. One thing about this doubled
cinch is you have to seat it well, especially when using fluoro, it can slip
if not tied tight. I also do a horrible thing, bite the tags vs cut them,
again to prevent slippage.

Mike

"riverman" wrote in news:1154622840.240160.100490
@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/Zeppelin.html

I just tried it on two pieces of 4x, and it seems very strong and is
quite easy to tie. Its not as simple as the Surgeons Knot, but it has
the advantage that it leaves a linear knot, and its much easier than a
Blood Knot.

What do others think...is this a good leader-tippet or tippet-tippet
knot? I wonder if its even worth doing two or more passes through
rather than the one.

--riverman



The surgeon's is a fine knot, but the ends don't end up perfectly straight
and in line like they do with a blood knot. Because of this, when I use
the surgeons, its just to tie on one piece of tippet, and not to rebuild a
leader.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
.4...
The surgeon's is a fine knot, but the ends don't end up perfectly straight
and in line like they do with a blood knot. Because of this, when I use
the surgeons, its just to tie on one piece of tippet, and not to rebuild a
leader.

Same for me. I tie my leaders with a blood-knot exclusively. I seldom use
the surgeon's knot, even for my tippet section, unless I am tying on 6x on a
dark and cloudy day or I'm tying on 7x tippet.

I have all but stopped buying knotless leaders and tie my own leaders using
Orvis' Leader Formula Booklet. It's a very handy little booklet, with
formulas for many different flyline weights and light and heavy leaders.
The nice thing about tying your own leaders is that you know exactly what to
tie back, if you encounter a break.

Op

Scott

"riverman" wrote in news:1154622840.240160.100490
@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/Zeppelin.html

I just tried it on two pieces of 4x, and it seems very strong and is
quite easy to tie. Its not as simple as the Surgeons Knot, but it has
the advantage that it leaves a linear knot, and its much easier than a
Blood Knot.

What do others think...is this a good leader-tippet or tippet-tippet
knot? I wonder if its even worth doing two or more passes through
rather than the one.

--riverman


There's a variation of the blood knot that's much easier to tie. I have no
pictures, but you tie the two lines together with an overhand knot, just to
attach them. You then form a loop with the overhand at the top end and the
double strand at the bottom. You twist the doubled line together five or
six times, leaving a gap in the center through which you pass the overhand
knot, then tighten and trim. You get a blood knot, but both tag ends come
out the same side of the knot

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply