why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?

Todd Copeland wrote:
"duty-honor-country" wrote in message
ups.com...

Carlos wrote:
Accuracy and the ability to control the entry of a bait into the water.

Sometime watch, really watch guys on tv casting. Or even better, go to
a wintertime fishing show where a big name angler is tossing a jig into
a cup 50-80 feet away and never missing. Doing it while not making a
lot of noise. Just laying it in there.

Baitcasters are far more useful, and accurate than you give them credit
for. They take practice. Anything worthwhile does.

I've been fishing for 37 years now, and to say a baitcaster is more
accurate, is very misleading- and downright incorrect. I can put 6
pound test on an open face and cast 200 feet with ease. And I can put
10 pound test on it and haul in huge bass. And I've fished small
streams and creeks with open faced spinning reels, that require far
more precision than any baitcaster can give- and would leave a
baitcasting reel in a birdsnest tangle.

Caros mentioned that baitcasters were more _accurate", not that they could
throw a lure further as you keep mentioning. Spinning reels _are_ good for
distance and for using light lures. But baitcaster win hands down for
accuracy.

There are very few times (really none) that anyone should want to throw a
lure 100-200 feet (by the way, the over-hand throw on a 200 foot cast has
_got_ to be scary!)

You mentioned backlashes on a baitcaster and that you've been fishing for 37
years. If you're getting backlashes then you've not fished long enough with
a baitcast to appreciate how well it does. I've been fishing, steady, for
about 10 years and use baitcasters 80% of the time. Out of the past
thousands of casts I'd say I've only had backlash once... and it only took 5
seconds to clear. The only way to control the line on a spinning reel is to
apply slight pressure against the line with your finger once each time the
line wraps around the spool. As you mentioned, on a baitcaster you just need
to drag your thumb across the spool as the line is going out.

From your posts it really seems like you are no open to accept the fact that
baitcasters _are_ more accurate then spinning reels. If they were not, why
do all professional bass fisherman use them 80%-90% of the time? I guess
they _all_ could be wrong about the subject.

Something you don't mention is what _kind_ of bass fishing you do. If you
just need to throw a shiner out into the middle of the lake, then a spinning
reel would work best for your needs. But if you want to throw that plastic
worm or spinning lure right into that 6"x6" hole of lily pads four or five
times, then you might want to consider practicing with a baitcaster.


You bring up valid points- but to repeat what a previous poster gleaned
from my posts- why use 20 pound test and a heavy lure, to catch an 8
pound fish ? And the added headaches of a baitcaster added to it. It
seems that same lure could be presented with a stout open faced reel
and rod, and horsed in just as easily.

They use open faced reels for deep sea fishing too- so obviously the
new ones have the gusto to horse a big fish in as well. Correct ?

Keep in mind professional bass fishermen get a lot of sponsor money.

I've yet to try to make a cast that I could not make with a spinning
reel. Where's the accuracy problem ? I've fished streams where the
target area is 2 feet square- and anywhere else is a snag and lost
hook/bait. If that's not an accuracy challenge, what is ?

I agree that for pulling a lure through lilly pads and stumps, a
baitcaster has the leverage advantage. But what average guy would fish
that area, every time ? Sooner or later, one tires of the obstacles
and snags. You may not break the line, but you may have to go up and
unsnag it often.

If there was a place where all of the fish caught were over 10 pounds,
sure I'd use a bait caster. But the baitcaster aura is reminding me of
a street car with a 6-71 supercharger sticking through the hood, that
can't get out of it's own way.

"duty-honor-country" wrote in message SNIP
You bring up valid points- but to repeat what a previous poster gleaned
from my posts- why use 20 pound test and a heavy lure, to catch an 8
pound fish ? And the added headaches of a baitcaster added to it. It
seems that same lure could be presented with a stout open faced reel
and rod, and horsed in just as easily.

***Why use 20 pound and a heavy lure to catch an 8 pound fish? Because that
is many times the right tools for the job. If you were taught how to
properly set up and use a baitcast rig, there would be no added headache. A
baitcast reel can handle heavier line much better than a spinning reel, and
typically, a spinning rod does not have the necessary backbone to adequately
horse a fish from heavy cover. Sure, it can be done, but I can do the same
with a baitcaster with a rig that is much lighter and easier to fish with
all day. Saying you can do the same with a spinning rod is like saying that
you can pound a nail with a screwdriver. Yep, you probably can, but it's
not the right tool for the job. Matching line weight to fish is fine for
open water fishing, but there are many other factors that must be considered
when choosing tackle. Fishing many of the areas I do with eight pound line
will only result in borken line, lost lures and lost fish.

They use open faced reels for deep sea fishing too- so obviously the
new ones have the gusto to horse a big fish in as well. Correct ?

***Yes, they do use spinning rods for deep-sea fishing, but look at the
weight of a spinning rod/reel combination rated for 20 pound line, then
compare a baitcast combo rated for the same. I'd rather hold and cast the
baitcaster all day than the spinning rod/reel.

Keep in mind professional bass fishermen get a lot of sponsor money.

***And those professional bass fishermen get paid to WIN tournaments. If
spinning tackle were the "End-All to End All", those selfsame professional
bass fishermen would be using spinning tackle. But, they don't, so
obviously there is a reason why baitcasting tackle is used. You could use a
Yugo to race the 24 Hours at LeMans, but you wouldn't be competitive.

I've yet to try to make a cast that I could not make with a spinning
reel. Where's the accuracy problem ? I've fished streams where the
target area is 2 feet square- and anywhere else is a snag and lost
hook/bait. If that's not an accuracy challenge, what is ?

***Then you obviously haven't fished with me. Two feet square? C'mon,
that's easy. Now, pitch a lure underneath overhanging tree branches into a
10 inch hole in the weeds, two feet underneath the overhang. THAT'S an
accuracy challenge.

I agree that for pulling a lure through lilly pads and stumps, a
baitcaster has the leverage advantage. But what average guy would fish
that area, every time ? Sooner or later, one tires of the obstacles
and snags. You may not break the line, but you may have to go up and
unsnag it often.

***THAT'S exactly why baitcasting tackle is used, leverage and mechanical
advantage. I consider myself an average guy and I fish obstacles and snags
quite often. I prefer to actually CATCH fish and that means I have to go
where they live. If you're fishing bass, pike, and muskie, they are a very
object oriented fish. That means heavier tackle, heavier lures. I don't
tire of fishing in heavy cover and I don't have to "go up and unsnag if
often" as I use the proper tools for the job, baitcasting equipment.

If there was a place where all of the fish caught were over 10 pounds,
sure I'd use a bait caster. But the baitcaster aura is reminding me of
a street car with a 6-71 supercharger sticking through the hood, that
can't get out of it's own way.

***Obviously you don't understand the concept of using the correct equipment
for the task at hand and refuse to do so.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

"duty-honor-country" wrote in message
ups.com...

I've been fishing for 37 years now, and to say a baitcaster is more
accurate, is very misleading- and downright incorrect.

Wrong. You've been fishing a long time, which is not the same thing as
saying you're experienced, or good, yet.

And I've fished small
streams and creeks with open faced spinning reels, that require far
more precision than any baitcaster can give-

No, they don't offer more precision. You just aren't good at it. But
spinning gear does offer an advantage over casting gear with very light
weight lures, and that's why you use spinning gear with very light lures.

and would leave a
baitcasting reel in a birdsnest tangle.

For those who can't cast, yes.


The only useful purpose I can see for a baitcaster, is fishing from a
boat on large lakes and ocean, where the bait it tossed a few feet from
the boat, and then trolled- and the fish are huge over 15 pounds.

Ha ha ha ha ha.

Calling that 1800's technology a "baitcaster" is somewhat of an
oxymoron- it's a winch designed to haul up heavy fish- and a winch gets
tangled when it spins backwards fast. The makers of those reals need
to improve them a bit, to eliminate backlash.

Virtually all of them do.

They don't cast bait for crap !

YOU don't cast bait for crap.

jeffc wrote:
"duty-honor-country" wrote in message
ups.com...

I've been fishing for 37 years now, and to say a baitcaster is more
accurate, is very misleading- and downright incorrect.

Wrong. You've been fishing a long time, which is not the same thing as
saying you're experienced, or good, yet.

And I've fished small
streams and creeks with open faced spinning reels, that require far
more precision than any baitcaster can give-

No, they don't offer more precision. You just aren't good at it. But
spinning gear does offer an advantage over casting gear with very light
weight lures, and that's why you use spinning gear with very light lures.

and would leave a
baitcasting reel in a birdsnest tangle.

For those who can't cast, yes.


The only useful purpose I can see for a baitcaster, is fishing from a
boat on large lakes and ocean, where the bait it tossed a few feet from
the boat, and then trolled- and the fish are huge over 15 pounds.

Ha ha ha ha ha.

Calling that 1800's technology a "baitcaster" is somewhat of an
oxymoron- it's a winch designed to haul up heavy fish- and a winch gets
tangled when it spins backwards fast. The makers of those reals need
to improve them a bit, to eliminate backlash.

Virtually all of them do.

They don't cast bait for crap !

YOU don't cast bait for crap.

posted like a true bass pro !

Thanks for the laugh champ!

WW

"duty-honor-country" wrote in message
ups.com...
question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes
with ANY bait casting reel, and the fact your thumb must ride the spool
at all times to (try to) prevent it- why would anyone bother even using
a bait casting reel for fresh water fishing ? I can see the cranking
advantage to a bait caster, for hauling in huge fish, and dragging
lures through weeds, etc.. But in my actual experience, the bait
casters can't cast as far, and not as accurately, as a cheap open face
spinning reel or even a spincasting reel.

When I go fishing, I want to fish, not untangle the reel ever 4th cast.
Are the 5-ball bearing bait casters so much better they don't tangle,
over a single-ball bearing bait caster ? Common sense tells me no.

These bait casters seem at best something to use, to toss bait a few
feet from the boat, then troll in the ocean or large lakes for huge
fish- NOT for casting with precision and distance. I can cast hundreds
of feet with my spinning reel- and hardly 100 feet with a bait caster
with a lug nut attached for weight.

I'm getting the notion the reel industry is doing a lot of bs-ing to
sell bait casters.

skeptic bordering on cynic...

"duty-honor-country" wrote in message
ups.com...
question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes
with ANY bait casting reel, and the fact your thumb must ride the spool
at all times to (try to) prevent it- why would anyone bother even using
a bait casting reel for fresh water fishing ? I can see the cranking
advantage to a bait caster, for hauling in huge fish, and dragging
lures through weeds, etc.. But in my actual experience, the bait
casters can't cast as far, and not as accurately, as a cheap open face
spinning reel or even a spincasting reel.

Short answer: They do work, if you learn how to use them. Open-faced
spinning real more accurate than baitcasters? Not in the hands of an
experinced baitcaster user. I bet you don't sit a 5 gallon pale out in the
yard and practice casting to it at all, with any reel, do you? If not, you
are not the target market for baitcasters. Your methods are too casual, you
don't want to practice you just want to fish. Be that the case, then sure,
stick with spinning reels and closed spinning reels like the Zebco 33.

I live and die by the baitcaster, they outnumber the spinning reels on my
boat 6-2. And I keep those 2 spinning reels on there for 2-3 purposes:
Certain extra-light weight baits that I use, very windy conditions, and for
times when non-experienced anglers are going to be on-board and in need of
fishing rods.


And your technique needs some help. You aren't required to keep your thumb
on the spool all the time. You won't get any distance with that much
friction on the spool. The key to casting a baitcaster, consistently and
without hassle IMO, is your casting technique. That's what ultimately sets
and controls the bait's speed, which is what is the root of most overruns.
Too much bait speed at the get-go. Think of it in gun-like terms, you don't
necessarily want a really high muzzle velocity, but you do want a nice
consistent down-range velocity after the launch. A lot of this comes from
the casting wrist & arm, not the casting thumb.


When I go fishing, I want to fish, not untangle the reel ever 4th cast.

Again, it takes practice. You get a backlash every 4 casts, I get one every
4-5 trips, usually when I tried to skip a bait under a distant dock and hit
the dock by mistake. Of course, I have fished baitcasters since I was 8-9
years old (and am currently pushing 40), and I tune mine up each season, and
spend hours in the yard casting to small pales, at different distances, and
don't stop "tuning" my reels until I can use the bait I want, and hit the
pales dead center, 9 out of every 10 casts, using whatever cast I want to
practice: overhead, sidearm (fore and backhand), flipping and pitching.

Are the 5-ball bearing bait casters so much better they don't tangle,
over a single-ball bearing bait caster ? Common sense tells me no.

Experience tells me yes. You have to tune a baitcaster to your casting
habits (do you wrist or arm cast? what are your magnet settings, reel/spool
tension, line type and weight?), and extra bearings in a baitcaster make it
more smooth, easier to tune, and way easier to cast accurately once you have
it tuned to your tendencies, bait choices, and weather conditions.


These bait casters seem at best something to use, to toss bait a few
feet from the boat, then troll in the ocean or large lakes for huge
fish- NOT for casting with precision and distance. I can cast hundreds
of feet with my spinning reel- and hardly 100 feet with a bait caster
with a lug nut attached for weight.

This tells me that you haven't given a baitcaster a fair chance. I
personally, don't tune my baitcasters with lug nuts. And IMO, not many
freshwater sized baitcasters are even setup for the 2-4 ounces that a
typical lug nut surely weighs. Penn Senator salt water baitcasters? Maybe. I
have fished 32 oz Mojos off those for striped bass....


I'm getting the notion the reel industry is doing a lot of bs-ing to
sell bait casters.


No, they market harder to use and control reels to fisherman that want the
most accuracy that they can achieve with them with a little practice.

Do you golf at all? How well do you golf without practicing with your
current clubs? Fishing is the same way when it comes to equipment above the
entry level stuff. Based on your post, I'd say if you DO golf, that you do
it with off-the-shelf equipment, that wasn't "fitted" to you and you wonder
why you can't get rid of that slice, right? Go get your clubs bent to fit
your height and stance and arm length and I promise you'll shave 5 strokes
off your next round.....Put in some practice with a baitcaster - and get it
tuned to your style - and you'll wonder how you ever lived without them.

skeptic bordering on cynic...

duty-honor-country wrote:
question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes
with ANY bait casting reel,

You are blaming your own shortcomings on the hardware. Sad.

RichZ wrote:
duty-honor-country wrote:
question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes
with ANY bait casting reel,

You are blaming your own shortcomings on the hardware. Sad.

I tried to learn to use a baitcaster but spent too much time unraveling
the rats nest tangles in the reel. I use a spinning reel on a medium
action rod for virtually everything I fish for.

RichZ wrote:
duty-honor-country wrote:
question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes
with ANY bait casting reel,

You are blaming your own shortcomings on the hardware. Sad.

you are blaming another person for your hardware preferences- that's
what's even sadder.

duty-honor-country wrote:
RichZ wrote:

duty-honor-country wrote:

question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes
with ANY bait casting reel,

You are blaming your own shortcomings on the hardware. Sad.


you are blaming another person for your hardware preferences- that's
what's even sadder.



??? I'm not blaming anyone for anything. I didn't comment on your
preference for spinning tackle, just your insistence that backlashes and
tangles are unavoidable and 'incessant' with casting tackle -- a
position that just isn't accurate. You seem to think it is, which
reflects only on your your abilities with the tackle, not on the design
of the tackle itself.

There is no denying that casting tackle requires a more skilled and
practiced hand to cast. The lighter the weight being cast, the broader
the gap in how much skill is needed to do it with casting tackle rather
than spinning gear. You apparently haven't developed that skill, and
are blaming the tackle. Then again, you might be trying to learn with a
piece of junk, and it really IS the tackle.

I prefer spinning tackle for any application in which I use 6 lb test or
lower. Since drop shotting is among my favorite techniques, and I pretty
much wrote the book (or at least the article in In-Fisherman magazine
years ago) on light tackle jig & worm fishing, most days I use spinning
gear as much as, or more than casting tackle. But as soon as I go
heavier than that, casting gear gets the nod. It's more comfortable, and
in sizes suitable for handling heavy line, much lighter.

Also, in pure mechanical engineering terms, a casting reel is a more
elegant and efficient machine for retrieving the line. Spinning gear
takes the line around an awkward right angle turn on the retrieve, and
that turn puts pressure at a right angle to the bearing on which the
rotor rotates, trying to cock the rotor whenever it is pulling weight
around that awful corner. Further, the spinning reel asks you to set
into motion a large rotor and bail, instead of a comparatively small
spool to wind the line. The rotor/roller/bail assembly is an out of
balance, rotating mass -- something they taught us to avoid when I
studied mechanical design. If it wasn't such a good design for a reel's
other function (paying out line) it would be tough to even justify the
existence of a spinning reel. But because it does such a good job with
that half of its responsibilities -- particularly when light line and
light weights are involved -- I find it to be worth putting up with its
poor design for the other half of its job, but only in specific
circumstances.

I really don't care what kind of tackle you or anyone else prefers. I
know lots of anglers who don't have the ambition, dexterity or resolve
to learn to use a bait casting reel with any amount of confidence and
grace. I happily share my boat with several 'spinning gear only'
anglers. I'd much rather they concentrate on the important parts of
fishing -- finding fish and forcing them or tricking them into biting
something artificial -- than on trying to master tackle that they're
uncomfortable with for no reason other than that's what some pro uses.
As long as they're not doing something dumb like trying to fish in heavy
cover with 6 or 8 pound test because that's all that really fishes well
on their light spinning gear, more power to them. And to you.