OT Two things

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 13:32:28 -0600, Kevin Vang wrote:

In article ,
says...
Are you saying that the writer is "snobby" in this article, or that he
is generally "snobby?"


Generally snobby. That particular article wasn't too bad, but here's
some other selections from his ouev

Woo-doggies, there ain't many things worse than a dude with a snobby
"ouevre"...

http://www.slate.com/id/2088890/

http://www.slate.com/id/2085758/

I didn't find either particularly snobby, and found the first to be even
anti-snobby, so to speak. I agree with him about the nonsense in
California wines (I do like some of the old-vine Zinfandels), although I
do disagree with him about the Charles Shaw/"Two-buck Chuck" as far as
that which I've tried - admittedly a small sampling, and perhaps not the
same stuff. He says it's exclusive to some store(?) called "Trader
Joe's" and what I've tried didn't come from there.

Ah, well, chocolate and vanilla, I suppose.

TC,
R


Kevin

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 13:32:28 -0600, Kevin Vang wrote:

In article ,
says...
Are you saying that the writer is "snobby" in this article, or that he
is generally "snobby?"


Generally snobby. That particular article wasn't too bad, but here's
some other selections from his ouev

Woo-doggies, there ain't many things worse than a dude with a snobby
"ouevre"...

http://www.slate.com/id/2088890/

http://www.slate.com/id/2085758/

I didn't find either particularly snobby, and found the first to be even
anti-snobby, so to speak. I agree with him about the nonsense in
California wines (I do like some of the old-vine Zinfandels), although I
do disagree with him about the Charles Shaw/"Two-buck Chuck" as far as
that which I've tried - admittedly a small sampling, and perhaps not the
same stuff. He says it's exclusive to some store(?) called "Trader
Joe's" and what I've tried didn't come from there.

Well, o.k., but why should anyone care what you think about this?
Seriously.

Ah, well, chocolate and vanilla, I suppose.

See what I mean? Nothing to say. So, why should we care? Seriously.

Wolfgang

On Nov 16, 8:44 am, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
The Dining & Wine section of the Times on November 8 had an
article and recipe on a novel way to make bread. I've never
had an aptitude for baking of any sort but I've made three
loaves now and this method makes absolutely gorgeous bread.

Mix three cups of flour (I use two cups bleached white and
one cup whole wheat) 1/4 teaspoon yeast and 1 1/4 teaspoon
of salt. Add 1 5/8 cups of water to make a very wet, sticky
dough. Cover with plastic wrap and let it sit for at least
18 hours. Turn it out on a surface with just enough flour
to keep it from sticking then fold it into thirds and then
into half. Place it seam side down on a towel coated liberally
with flour, corn meal or wheat bran (I use wheat bran) and
cover with another towel. Let it sit for at least two hours.
Crank up your oven as high as it will go, mine goes to 550F,
and put a 4-6 quart enameled, covered cast iron pot, like a
Le Creuset, into the oven while it comes to temp. You want
a very hot pot. Throw the dough in seam side up, cover the
pot and bake for a half hour. After a half hour take the
lid off and continue until browned (it varies).

You won't believe it until you try it, but this turns out
a bakery quality boule right out of your home oven. The wet
dough in the hot covered pot has the moisture home bakers
have strived in vain for and that creates a wonderful, crackly
crust that you've never been able to get at home before.
Amazingly good.

And it's the third Thursday of November !! BEAUJOLAIS NOUVEAU !!
Woohoo. They're saying this batch is the equal of the 2003.
We'll find out tonight.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Some parts of that sound like what I haver read about ancient Egyptian
bread. Check the local Kitchen Kaboodle and see if you can pick up a
"bedjain".
Here's a book you would enjoy.

http://www.amazon.com/History-Food-M.../dp/0631194975

"Daniel-San" (Rot13) wrote in message
et...

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote ...


And it's the third Thursday of November !! BEAUJOLAIS NOUVEAU !!
Woohoo. They're saying this batch is the equal of the 2003.
We'll find out tonight.

Oh, yeah! Love the stuff. To be honest, I'm not too sure why. Truth be
told, it's not the greatest wine out there, and it's certainly not the
cheapest (although it's not expensive.) But, for some reason, it's always
a fun and enjoyable wine.

Why? marketing.... there are certainly better tasting, more "bodied" wines
out there than BEAUJOLAIS NOUVEAU (with or without !!).

You drink the BEAUJOLAIS NOUVEAU!! , Give me a nice Pinot or Syrah every...

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:44:38 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

The Dining & Wine section of the Times on November 8 had an
article and recipe on a novel way to make bread. I've never
had an aptitude for baking of any sort but I've made three
loaves now and this method makes absolutely gorgeous bread.

Mix three cups of flour (I use two cups bleached white and
one cup whole wheat) 1/4 teaspoon yeast and 1 1/4 teaspoon
of salt. Add 1 5/8 cups of water to make a very wet, sticky
dough. Cover with plastic wrap and let it sit for at least
18 hours. Turn it out on a surface with just enough flour
to keep it from sticking then fold it into thirds and then
into half. Place it seam side down on a towel coated liberally
with flour, corn meal or wheat bran (I use wheat bran) and
cover with another towel. Let it sit for at least two hours.
Crank up your oven as high as it will go, mine goes to 550F,
and put a 4-6 quart enameled, covered cast iron pot, like a
Le Creuset, into the oven while it comes to temp. You want
a very hot pot. Throw the dough in seam side up, cover the
pot and bake for a half hour. After a half hour take the
lid off and continue until browned (it varies).

You won't believe it until you try it, but this turns out
a bakery quality boule right out of your home oven. The wet
dough in the hot covered pot has the moisture home bakers
have strived in vain for and that creates a wonderful, crackly
crust that you've never been able to get at home before.
Amazingly good.

And it's the third Thursday of November !! BEAUJOLAIS NOUVEAU !!
Woohoo. They're saying this batch is the equal of the 2003.
We'll find out tonight.

I don't see any sign of shortening or oil in the recipe. And you didn't advise
to lubricate the pot. Will I end up catching a boatload of wrath from the
chief cook by wasting one of our ridiculously expensive Le Creusets in this
endeavor?

/daytripper (I don't think those things stand up to sandblasting, either...)

daytripper wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
The Dining & Wine section of the Times on November 8 had an
article and recipe on a novel way to make bread. I've never
had an aptitude for baking of any sort but I've made three
loaves now and this method makes absolutely gorgeous bread.

Mix three cups of flour (I use two cups bleached white and
one cup whole wheat) 1/4 teaspoon yeast and 1 1/4 teaspoon
of salt. Add 1 5/8 cups of water to make a very wet, sticky
dough. Cover with plastic wrap and let it sit for at least
18 hours. Turn it out on a surface with just enough flour
to keep it from sticking then fold it into thirds and then
into half. Place it seam side down on a towel coated liberally
with flour, corn meal or wheat bran (I use wheat bran) and
cover with another towel. Let it sit for at least two hours.
Crank up your oven as high as it will go, mine goes to 550F,
and put a 4-6 quart enameled, covered cast iron pot, like a
Le Creuset, into the oven while it comes to temp. You want
a very hot pot. Throw the dough in seam side up, cover the
pot and bake for a half hour. After a half hour take the
lid off and continue until browned (it varies).

You won't believe it until you try it, but this turns out
a bakery quality boule right out of your home oven. The wet
dough in the hot covered pot has the moisture home bakers
have strived in vain for and that creates a wonderful, crackly
crust that you've never been able to get at home before.
Amazingly good.

And it's the third Thursday of November !! BEAUJOLAIS NOUVEAU !!
Woohoo. They're saying this batch is the equal of the 2003.
We'll find out tonight.

I don't see any sign of shortening or oil in the recipe. And you didn't advise
to lubricate the pot. Will I end up catching a boatload of wrath from the
chief cook by wasting one of our ridiculously expensive Le Creusets in this
endeavor?

/daytripper (I don't think those things stand up to sandblasting, either...)

No oil in the recipe and no need to lubricate the pot. The bread
just falls right out of the pot when it's done. The inside of the
Le Creuset does get a little dark and my wife was concerned about
the handle on the lid at 550F but the handle came through fine and
if you let the pot sit overnight full of dishwasher soap and water
it'll be sparkling white again by morning.

I didn't mention that when you let the dough rest for 18 hours it
should be in a bowl and the bowl covered with plastic wrap. This
recipe is so easy, and the bread so damn good you've just got to
try it to believe it.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:15:21 -0500, daytripper
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:44:38 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

The Dining & Wine section of the Times on November 8 had an
article and recipe on a novel way to make bread. I've never
had an aptitude for baking of any sort but I've made three
loaves now and this method makes absolutely gorgeous bread.

Mix three cups of flour (I use two cups bleached white and
one cup whole wheat) 1/4 teaspoon yeast and 1 1/4 teaspoon
of salt. Add 1 5/8 cups of water to make a very wet, sticky
dough. Cover with plastic wrap and let it sit for at least
18 hours. Turn it out on a surface with just enough flour
to keep it from sticking then fold it into thirds and then
into half. Place it seam side down on a towel coated liberally
with flour, corn meal or wheat bran (I use wheat bran) and
cover with another towel. Let it sit for at least two hours.
Crank up your oven as high as it will go, mine goes to 550F,
and put a 4-6 quart enameled, covered cast iron pot, like a
Le Creuset, into the oven while it comes to temp. You want
a very hot pot. Throw the dough in seam side up, cover the
pot and bake for a half hour. After a half hour take the
lid off and continue until browned (it varies).

You won't believe it until you try it, but this turns out
a bakery quality boule right out of your home oven. The wet
dough in the hot covered pot has the moisture home bakers
have strived in vain for and that creates a wonderful, crackly
crust that you've never been able to get at home before.
Amazingly good.

And it's the third Thursday of November !! BEAUJOLAIS NOUVEAU !!
Woohoo. They're saying this batch is the equal of the 2003.
We'll find out tonight.

I don't see any sign of shortening or oil in the recipe. And you didn't advise
to lubricate the pot. Will I end up catching a boatload of wrath from the
chief cook by wasting one of our ridiculously expensive Le Creusets in this
endeavor?

/daytripper (I don't think those things stand up to sandblasting, either...)

Got a clay coqcotte/cocotte? I haven't tried the recipe, but it might
work well, lightly soaked and then lightly oiled.

TC,
R

"Steve" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:16:13 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:27:27 GMT, Steve wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:21:36 -0600, wrote:

I'll take your word for it having come through at some point "Trader
Joe's," but it isn't made by Franzia (as far as the Franzia Winery),
hidden or otherwise.

Do you mean the one that you tasted wasn't Franzia?
The (in)famous 2 buck chuck from "Charles Shaw" is an exclusive
arrangement between Bronco Wine Co, (Franzia) and Trader Joe's stores.
There is no Charles Shaw winery.

There _was_ a Charles Shaw Winery, but he went under and Bronco bought
(at least) the name (I can't speak to what happened to the winery itself
or if Shaw is still alive). And while some of the Franzia family is
involved with Bronco, neither they nor Bronco have anything to do with
Franzia Winery. Bronco is like a US version of Duboeuf or to a lesser
extent, B & G.

TC,
R

My apology, you're right.
I made the assumption that Frank Franzia was Franzia Winery, and
that's not true.

It is Fred Franzia and he also has a 4 buck Fred. Is the Napa valley
appelation. I think the winery he bought was Sutter Home and probably one
or two others. He got sued by the Napa Valley vintners for not having
enough Napa grown wine in a wine with a Napa label. He is the nephew of
the biggest growers in past times, E & J Gallo. Makers of the poison of
choice in our younger days. . . Red Mountain.

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
...
daytripper wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
The Dining & Wine section of the Times on November 8 had an
article and recipe on a novel way to make bread. I've never
had an aptitude for baking of any sort but I've made three
loaves now and this method makes absolutely gorgeous bread.

Mix three cups of flour (I use two cups bleached white and
one cup whole wheat) 1/4 teaspoon yeast and 1 1/4 teaspoon
of salt. Add 1 5/8 cups of water to make a very wet, sticky
dough. Cover with plastic wrap and let it sit for at least
18 hours. Turn it out on a surface with just enough flour
to keep it from sticking then fold it into thirds and then
into half. Place it seam side down on a towel coated liberally
with flour, corn meal or wheat bran (I use wheat bran) and
cover with another towel. Let it sit for at least two hours.
Crank up your oven as high as it will go, mine goes to 550F,
and put a 4-6 quart enameled, covered cast iron pot, like a
Le Creuset, into the oven while it comes to temp. You want
a very hot pot. Throw the dough in seam side up, cover the
pot and bake for a half hour. After a half hour take the
lid off and continue until browned (it varies).

You won't believe it until you try it, but this turns out
a bakery quality boule right out of your home oven. The wet
dough in the hot covered pot has the moisture home bakers
have strived in vain for and that creates a wonderful, crackly
crust that you've never been able to get at home before.
Amazingly good.

And it's the third Thursday of November !! BEAUJOLAIS NOUVEAU !!
Woohoo. They're saying this batch is the equal of the 2003.
We'll find out tonight.

I don't see any sign of shortening or oil in the recipe. And you didn't
advise
to lubricate the pot. Will I end up catching a boatload of wrath from the
chief cook by wasting one of our ridiculously expensive Le Creusets in
this
endeavor?

/daytripper (I don't think those things stand up to sandblasting,
either...)

No oil in the recipe and no need to lubricate the pot. The bread
just falls right out of the pot when it's done. The inside of the
Le Creuset does get a little dark and my wife was concerned about
the handle on the lid at 550F but the handle came through fine and
if you let the pot sit overnight full of dishwasher soap and water
it'll be sparkling white again by morning.

I didn't mention that when you let the dough rest for 18 hours it
should be in a bowl and the bowl covered with plastic wrap. This
recipe is so easy, and the bread so damn good you've just got to
try it to believe it.

--
Ken Fortenberry


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/08/di...5dc3&ei= 5070

In article ,
says...
I didn't find either particularly snobby, and found the first to be even
anti-snobby, so to speak.



I think you gotta give props to a guy who can proclaim that there are
no drinkable California wines under $15 a bottle, and when he undertakes
to write about drinkable cheap wines, compiles a list of French and
Italian wines which are unobtainable at any price in any of the several
states that I frequent.

Kevin