Fly Patterns: East vs. West

Tom Littleton wrote:

"jeff" wrote in message
...

at penns, you better get the sulphurs' eyelashes and anal orifices tied
exactly right.

hth g

jeff


with all due respect to Jeff and Mike M, I am still not sure about what they
say. My experience is that the attitude of the fly is FAR more important
than color details here in PA. I have used the same sulfur pattern sets for
both Penns and BFC, for instance, for the past decade or so.
In my experience, first and foremost the fly has to come right down the
proper lane on both waters to have a chance. In BFC, flush floaters like
parachutes and soft hackles work best, but not so necessary on Penns. Penns
fish do have a soft spot for CDC and snowshoe emergers on the flatter
stretches, however. Having said this, I have failed enough during sulfur
hatches at both places to remain humble and thus unsure of any
pronouncements. Most especially, I and others fail frequently by overlooking
fallen spinners when duns are hatching. Given that at least 3 and possibly 4
species of flies get lumped into the hatch called "sulfurs", choosing the
proper size,color and stage of the hatch are all contributing factors to
success, but I would place color at the rear of the pecking order.
Tom


the last year i fished penns, the color of the dry fly was the only
differentiating factor i could identify. only the sulphurs with the
orange tint worked. presented identically and in the same size, the
yellow color did not produce. change to the orange, presto, the fish took.

i am saying those are some persnickety fish in penns. they can afford
to be very discriminating about what they will eat. in contrast, the
fish in the smokies want something...anything...that looks buggy and
sorta natural. our fish are starving. they are spooked easily and decide
to eat quickly. we don't have hatches of any real consequence in nc that
dictate feeding patterns.

jeff

So, if Tom says they don't care about the perzact color of your sulphur and
jeffie says "they don't, just so long as its orangish yellow", then one
might conclude to construct one's sulphurs with a bit of orange, remembering
to mind the presentation most of all. I got that right?

Hey Tom, what did happen to your website with examples of your fave flies?

Danl




"jeff" wrote in message
...
Tom Littleton wrote:

"jeff" wrote in message
...

at penns, you better get the sulphurs' eyelashes and anal orifices tied
exactly right.

hth g

jeff


with all due respect to Jeff and Mike M, I am still not sure about what
they say. My experience is that the attitude of the fly is FAR more
important than color details here in PA. I have used the same sulfur
pattern sets for both Penns and BFC, for instance, for the past decade or
so.
In my experience, first and foremost the fly has to come right down the
proper lane on both waters to have a chance. In BFC, flush floaters like
parachutes and soft hackles work best, but not so necessary on Penns.
Penns fish do have a soft spot for CDC and snowshoe emergers on the
flatter stretches, however. Having said this, I have failed enough during
sulfur hatches at both places to remain humble and thus unsure of any
pronouncements. Most especially, I and others fail frequently by
overlooking fallen spinners when duns are hatching. Given that at least 3
and possibly 4 species of flies get lumped into the hatch called
"sulfurs", choosing the proper size,color and stage of the hatch are all
contributing factors to success, but I would place color at the rear of
the pecking order.
Tom
the last year i fished penns, the color of the dry fly was the only
differentiating factor i could identify. only the sulphurs with the orange
tint worked. presented identically and in the same size, the yellow color
did not produce. change to the orange, presto, the fish took.

i am saying those are some persnickety fish in penns. they can afford to
be very discriminating about what they will eat. in contrast, the fish in
the smokies want something...anything...that looks buggy and sorta
natural. our fish are starving. they are spooked easily and decide to eat
quickly. we don't have hatches of any real consequence in nc that dictate
feeding patterns.

jeff

"Danl" danlfinn@*remove this*intergate.com wrote in message
...
So, if Tom says they don't care about the perzact color of your sulphur
and jeffie says "they don't, just so long as its orangish yellow", then
one might conclude to construct one's sulphurs with a bit of orange,
remembering to mind the presentation most of all. I got that right?

Hey Tom, what did happen to your website with examples of your fave flies?

Danl


What Jeff said is true of Penn's, my quibble was that the same shade of
orange sulfur works at the same sort of moment elsewhere in PA. The problem
is that we do have simultaneous hatches here of Dorothea(true yellow, and a
bit smaller), Invaria(a muted yellow) and Rotunda(orange yellow), along with
some kind of Stenonema which is also orange/yellow in color. They don't vary
much stream to stream, sometimes they will be larger in fertile streams.
Maybe I read Makela as trying to infer that the same species needs a
different shade on different streams and I would differ with that. My only
real difference with Jeffs first post was that one needn't get the genitalia
or other detail correct so much as putting the fly at the proper level in
the water column. Color can matter, but I have seen the wrong
color(read:species imitation) work if presented naturally enough, more often
than not.
As for the website, that disappeared when I dropped AOHell a couple years
back. FWIW, I have some hope that Mr. Fisher will post some pics of my flies
at www.pennscreekangler.com at some point. Also, I think someone catalouged
the photos I used to have up for Penn's someplace.....
Tom



"jeff" wrote in message
...
Tom Littleton wrote:

"jeff" wrote in message
...

at penns, you better get the sulphurs' eyelashes and anal orifices tied
exactly right.

hth g

jeff


with all due respect to Jeff and Mike M, I am still not sure about what
they say. My experience is that the attitude of the fly is FAR more
important than color details here in PA. I have used the same sulfur
pattern sets for both Penns and BFC, for instance, for the past decade
or so.
In my experience, first and foremost the fly has to come right down the
proper lane on both waters to have a chance. In BFC, flush floaters like
parachutes and soft hackles work best, but not so necessary on Penns.
Penns fish do have a soft spot for CDC and snowshoe emergers on the
flatter stretches, however. Having said this, I have failed enough
during sulfur hatches at both places to remain humble and thus unsure of
any pronouncements. Most especially, I and others fail frequently by
overlooking fallen spinners when duns are hatching. Given that at least
3 and possibly 4 species of flies get lumped into the hatch called
"sulfurs", choosing the proper size,color and stage of the hatch are all
contributing factors to success, but I would place color at the rear of
the pecking order.
Tom
the last year i fished penns, the color of the dry fly was the only
differentiating factor i could identify. only the sulphurs with the
orange tint worked. presented identically and in the same size, the
yellow color did not produce. change to the orange, presto, the fish
took.

i am saying those are some persnickety fish in penns. they can afford to
be very discriminating about what they will eat. in contrast, the fish
in the smokies want something...anything...that looks buggy and sorta
natural. our fish are starving. they are spooked easily and decide to eat
quickly. we don't have hatches of any real consequence in nc that dictate
feeding patterns.

jeff

Danl wrote:
So, if Tom says they don't care about the perzact color of your sulphur and
jeffie says "they don't, just so long as its orangish yellow", then one
might conclude to construct one's sulphurs with a bit of orange, remembering
to mind the presentation most of all. I got that right?

Hey Tom, what did happen to your website with examples of your fave flies?

Danl



actually...and as you know...i simply stumble about all day and
eventually luck into something that works...or i find a pod of
incredibly stupid or peculiar fish. but, makela will vouch for the weird
orange sulphur event. i think he experienced the same thing. other
years, the traditional pmd/sulphur stuff worked fine. of course, i like
the old standby elk hair caddis...and you might try one of those cdc&elk
caddis.

if anyone wants to know what works or how to make it work at penns, tom
and the finn would be my go to sources. davePA is also a good resource,
though one tends to become a bit inebriated and, uh, disoriented when
fishing with him for the day (as in, "how did we get in this oasis of
totally nude young women, weren't we just on the juniata?"
disoriented)...and, of course, bruce fisher.

jeff