Tippets: 'X' vs breaking strength

"riverman" wrote in message
ups.com...

Can anyone give me a summary of the relationship between the X system
of tippets, and the breaking strength?

The X system described tippet thickness when the
material was silkworm glands, drawn out into threads
through a series of dies. Thus the 4X die produced
tippet lengths about 0.007 inches diam. This much
silkworm material had a breaking strength of a few
pounds (varying with source quality, dampness,
abrasion etc.)

Nylon tippets were usually measured in thousandths
of an inch, and strength varied with thickness: no
problem except for quality of the source. Trout anglers
point out presentation the wear on the knot are of
more practical importance than notional strength.

But flurocarbon material is stronger for unit diameter
than nylon, and some makers (e.g. Pezon & Miichel)
always advertised special nylon formulae for tippets,
supposedly stronger.

My Mongolia connection
recommends using a 10-12 pound tippet, but I'm not at all sure what
size that is.

This is normal for big fish that are not leader shy. Quebec
salmon fishermen go by breaking strain rather than tippet
diameter, in the range 20 lb. to 10 lb.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

On May 1, 10:43 am, rw wrote:
BJ Conner wrote:

I have read you have to use big flys in Mongolia. Taimen paterns
include muskrat, otter and various water foul imatations.

Are you going to be fishing or playing water polo? :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Thats a fowl thing to say.
BTW - In the days of Ghengis Khan the religion was a form of Shamanism
and to foul running water was punishable by instant death. Is fly
fishing befouling water??

On 1 May 2007 07:43:06 -0700, riverman wrote:

Can anyone give me a summary of the relationship between the X system
of tippets, and the breaking strength? My Mongolia connection
recommends using a 10-12 pound tippet, but I'm not at all sure what
size that is. I'm vaguely aware that the material and diameter will
play a significant role, and I also know that I can just read it on
the spool, but my gear is buried kinda deep in the shed and its dark
out there....
:-o

--riverman

I imagine, from the sounds of it, that you will be chucking big
streamers, the same as when I fished Kamchatka two years ago. I
brought 0X and 1X leaders, and had a roll or two of 1x tippet. It was
MORE than enough. Lee Wulff has said that you should be able to land
a 4 pound fish on a 2 pound tippet - not pick it out of the water,
mind you, but land it. I believe that is true because we landed many
Rainbows in the 12 -14 pound range with 1x and 2x tippet. I landed a
16 pound Silver in Alaska on a 1x tippet, so I tend to believe what
Wulff said.

Dave

On Tue, 1 May 2007 11:47:46 -0500, "Daniel-San"
(Rot13) wrote:


"Ken Fortenberry" wrote ...

[...]

My bass leaders taper to 0X,

Do you see a difference in turning over the big bugs with a "real" leader? I
throw bass bugs tied on to 10 pound mono. I've tried leaders, and notice no
difference.

'Course, that could be a problem with the shooter, not the rifle, so to
speak.

--Dan

I read about and tried a 12 pound spin line last fall. I used an 8
foot section and tied a 4x fluoro tippet to it. It was recommended by
a famous nympher (forget his name - duh!) because the line sank faster
than fluoro or regular mono. I used it for a day and really didn't
see any advantage. And, no, it was not hard to cast.

Dave

On 1 May 2007 08:07:34 -0700, riverman wrote:

Suddenly my 9ft 7wt rod looks like a pea shooter....)

I used a 10ft 7wt Sage XP in Kamchatka, Alaska, Labrador, and on the
Saugeen catching Chinook (Kings) with Peter Charles. The fish ranged
from 7lbs (brookies and char) to 16lbs (rainbows/salmon). What 9ft 7
do you have? It may be more than enough.

Dave

Just out of curiousity, how much does a trip to Mongolia cost, and
what is the airfare? I know, I know, if I have to ask I can't afford
it. d;o) Via e-mail if you wish. TIA

I have a nephew who was second highest ranking diplomat at the
American embassy in Mongolia's capitol. The taiman fishing became
popular while he was there and he invited me to come for a visit.
Should have taken him up on the offer.

Dave

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote ...

[...]

No, not the big bugs. I use tapered leaders rather than flat mono
because sometimes I'll throw something other than a big bug.



Sure sounds like a reasonable thing.

Maybe a better question would be and what point in the fly size range do you
find the use of tapered leaders loses value? Or going the other way, when do
they become required? Seems to me, the need is more a function of precision
required in the cast, than size. Am I wrong?

--Dan

"Dave LaCourse" wrote ...

[...]
I read about and tried a 12 pound spin line last fall. I used an 8
foot section and tied a 4x fluoro tippet to it. It was recommended by
a famous nympher (forget his name - duh!) because the line sank faster
than fluoro or regular mono. I used it for a day and really didn't
see any advantage. And, no, it was not hard to cast.


Interesting... saved me a few bucks...thanks.

--Dan

Daniel-San wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote ...
[...]
No, not the big bugs. I use tapered leaders rather than flat mono
because sometimes I'll throw something other than a big bug.

Sure sounds like a reasonable thing.

Maybe a better question would be and what point in the fly size range do you
find the use of tapered leaders loses value? Or going the other way, when do
they become required? Seems to me, the need is more a function of precision
required in the cast, than size. Am I wrong?

It's not the size of the fly per se, it's how much wind it eats.
A streamlined hopper of the same size as a Dahlberg Diver will
cast much differently. With the Diver a tapered leader isn't
necessary, all you can hope to do is plop it somewhere, but if
you want the hopper to land somewhere close to where you're aiming
a tapered leader is better than flat mono.

So, you're absolutely right.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On May 2, 4:40 am, Dave LaCourse wrote:
On 1 May 2007 08:07:34 -0700, riverman wrote:

Suddenly my 9ft 7wt rod looks like a pea shooter....)

I used a 10ft 7wt Sage XP in Kamchatka, Alaska, Labrador, and on the
Saugeen catching Chinook (Kings) with Peter Charles. The fish ranged
from 7lbs (brookies and char) to 16lbs (rainbows/salmon). What 9ft 7
do you have? It may be more than enough.

Dave

I have two. One is a two-piece GuidelinePro, very common in the
Scandanavian countries, with a medium action. The other is a 6-piece
LLBean Travel Series, also with medium action.

Personally, unless I get into one of those 15-18 pound monsters where
I really ought to be spey casting, I think I can manage. The outfitter
I'm working with (the same guy in Conan's post) said the majority of
the taimen are in the 10-12 pound range. I suspect I can handle them
with my gear. He told me today that he could loan me a beefier rig if
I want.

--riverman