montana - july 9-17

"Dave S" wrote in message
...
Yes, it is a tailwater, and much cooler than the LBH. But "cold
water" must be used carefully, especially in relation to other Montana
cold water streams.

From MT FWP:

"Prior to 1965, the Bighorn was a warm, silty stream that flowed out
of the Bighorn Canyon into the Montana prairie. With the completion of
Yellowtail Dam, it transformed into a cooler tailwater ideal for trout.
It can be called a coldwater fishery, though not in the way some of
colder, crisper streams in the central and western parts of the state
can. A species list shows the middle-ground diversity of the Bighorn
River:

Bigmouth buffalo, black bullhead, burbot, channel cat, carp, emerald
shiner, flathead minnow, flathead chub, freshwater drum, goldeye, green
sunfish, longnose sucker, whitefish, river carpsucker, sauger, shorthead
redhorse, smallmouth bass, smallmouth buffalo, walleye, white sucker,
yellow perch.

The river meets the Yellowstone near Custer, the Yellowstone turning
into a warmwater fishery east of Billings"


Our definitions of warmwater are just different due to our geographic
location.

I think not. However, it appears that our perceptions of differences due to
geographic differences are different.

If you are from the Heartland or other areas of the midwest,

Which I, for one, may or may not be depending on how one chooses to parse
the continent....

I'm sure the Bighorn seems like coldwater heaven.

Not to me.....nor to any number of people here in the tropical Heartland who
can show you any number of spring fed waters that'll freeze your nuts off on
a hot August day.

But when you live in
a state that has some of the highest, cleanest, coldest, and most pure
water left on the planet....the Bighorn seems, well, pretty warmwater.

When you live in a state that has some of the hioghest, cleanest, coldest
and most pure water left on the planet.......you definitely need to get out
more......maybe read a book or something in the meantime.

Anywhere I can catch a trout, a ling (burbot), and a catfish in the
same day......warm water.

Interesting that water temperature doesn't enter into the equation.

Not trying to stir things up.

No, of course not.

I just figure that if you come to MT,
which is known for it's mountains, fishing, and some of the purest
waters left on earth, why fish a river that probably looks like a river
near you.

You don't figure real well.

The Bighorn is a man-made fishery...and it looks and feels
like one.

Unlike all the alpine lakes in Montana chock full of iced native trout, huh?


You will catch big fish all day long, yes.

Yeah, that part is pretty distressing.

But you are comparing
their fight to a fish caught in a river near you, not a river near me.

Let's assume, since the person you are ostensibly replying to lives and does
most of his fishing in a geographic region that no sane person could
conceivably think of as the "Heartland" or other area of "the midwest," that
you mean a river near "me".....or someone like me. So, which one would that
be?

A wild 12 inch trout caught in the cold waters of 10,000ft will fight
harder than a man-planted 22 incher in the warmer waters of the Bighorn.

Startling revelation! Just WAIT till word of this gets out!

If you ever get the chance to eat a trout caught at 10,000 ft and
compare it to a Bighorn trout, or a trout near you...you will know what
I mean.

Anyone who knows what you mean (and you may rest assured that there are
numerous competent readers here who do) will be a large step ahead of you.

There is an actual physical difference in the flesh due to
water temp and comparative inactivity of fish on the man-made fishery
that is the Bighorn.

One is reminded of the (quite possibly apocryphal) story of Huxley's comment
on Darwin's theory.

Wolfgang

Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 23:10:32 -0600, (Dave S) wrote:

warm water.

And if I cannot wade above my thighs because the water is 53 degrees,
it is cold water. I am sure those species you mentioned are in the BH
lower down the river, even before it gets to where the LBH flows in.
It looks like a warm water stream near Hardin. But below the dam and
the next mile or so, it is 53 degrees and chock full of big wary
trout. I spent a week on the river and hope to return again, but not
in mid-summer when the temp is a warm 104 degrees. d;o)

Hi Dave,

I've been cold on the 'horn but that's probably because I only used to go in
the winter. Way to crowded in the summer. Any time you can walk across the
river on drift boats, it can't be good.

I've fished the river 50-75 times and it's always been fun even though it's a
pain to "pop ice". It's really bad if you fall in. I always pack a towel and
change of clothes but have never used them for myself. My fishing buddy, Rich
(pictured holding a good Bighorn fish in the link), used them once, though, and
they literally are a life saver if you take a dunkin in the winter.

I took my last trip to the Bighorn this last winter. It gets boring seeing
the same thing year after year and I'm tired of being cold. Wading for hours
fell off my list of "things to do" due to osteoarthritis in my toes and a bum
shoulder that makes rowing a pain.

Anyway, here's a link with some Bighorn fish in it. Some roffians may remember
Kevin from Billings shown holding a good fish. There some other guys pictured
in this link I'll be some of you know.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ishing%20Page/

Snoop

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 12:50:42 -0600, Snoop
wrote:

Anyway, here's a link with some Bighorn fish in it. Some roffians may remember
Kevin from Billings shown holding a good fish. There some other guys pictured
in this link I'll be some of you know.

That looks like the *same* stoggie from the last time I saw you.
Kevin remarked that you were a Hollywood star, a dog, and with the
stoggie you looked like a dog taking a poop! Laughed my fat ass off!

When I fished the Bighorn, it was very hot. We had a guide for five
days and he worked very hard rowing that drift boat up-river so that
we could fish the same run again. Caught some beautiful fish, many
looked like rainbows with a little bit of cutt in them around the
mouth.

I sight fished for an 18 incher for 10 minutes before he finally took
what I offered. Great fun. I will long remember the Whirl Pool.
Took some nice fish out of it, but to this day I don't know how.
Never saw or felt the take. I lifted the rod when Adrian, the guide,
told me to. Strange.

Saw three dudes doing the San Juan Shuffle on a sand/gravel bar in the
middle of the river. The guy in the middle would do the shuffle while
the other two caught fish. Then they would swap positions. Sad way
to catch a fish.

Dave

anyway...looking forward to another year's visit.

jeff


I'm in Great Falls, as I type this, finishing up my wife's visit and our
trip
into Canada. She flies out of here tomorrow.

I'll head back to the Greater Yellowstone area after she leaves.

It's is very HOT here and I'm hoping that back at Last Chance things are
better. If not, don't plan on much but first and last light and chuck and
duck. I hope for all our sakes that it cools down and wants to rain daily.

Enjoy your trip.

Oh, I called some friends there today and was told to bring my fire fighting
gear with me, apparently they have fires now in the West Yellowstone area
.... plan on breathing smoke :-(( ....... fishing report was
so/so......... and, yes it's unusually hot in the West/Last Chance area
:-( not intended to discourage, just inform






--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

That's cute. Fly fishing "purists" valiantly defending the Bighorn.
The only people that do that here are 1) fishing guides on the BH, 2)
out-of-staters and/or tourists, or 3) disabled people who may have fewer
options. Notice how 1 and 2 are closely related, a 3 is
understandable.

Does the term "like fishing in a barrel" mean anything to some of you?

On any given day on the Bighorn, you may catch 15 or 20 "trophy" sized
monsters. But after the 3rd or 4th catch, most people take notice of
how easy they come, how unnatural and artificial it feels. Why?
Because it IS unnatural. It's an artificial fishery created within the
last 40 years as much to part the tourist-type fisherman from his money
as any sort of crop irrigation. Fishing in a barrel. Whether you call
yourself a tourist or not, it's a tourist-style fishery that most
serious fisherman leave to the tourist-style fisherman.

If that's for you, fine. But after reading some of George Cleveland's
fantastic fishing reports, I would figure more of you would be
visiting/fishing Montana George Cleveland style.

If you came to Montana to, say, see a grizzly, would you go to a zoo?
Would you go to Egypt and NOT see the pyramids? Do you ever order a
hamburger at a fine steakhouse?

This long-winded blather was not intended for all of you. I apologize
if any real fishermen were offended.

Wait. I don't know why I care about the wanna-bes anyway. It keeps
you off my fishing waters. Goddamn me. Good-bye.

Larry L wrote:
anyway...looking forward to another year's visit.

jeff



I'm in Great Falls, as I type this, finishing up my wife's visit and our
trip
into Canada. She flies out of here tomorrow.

I'll head back to the Greater Yellowstone area after she leaves.

It's is very HOT here and I'm hoping that back at Last Chance things are
better. If not, don't plan on much but first and last light and chuck and
duck. I hope for all our sakes that it cools down and wants to rain daily.

Enjoy your trip.

Oh, I called some friends there today and was told to bring my fire fighting
gear with me, apparently they have fires now in the West Yellowstone area
... plan on breathing smoke :-(( ....... fishing report was
so/so......... and, yes it's unusually hot in the West/Last Chance area
:-( not intended to discourage, just inform







just got a note from charlie choc...he sent a link that reports the fire
is over on the south side of hebgen around madison arm... 3000+ acres
involved.

there are a couple of places that remain relatively cool despite the hot
temps of the day...but even at its warmest, montana remains a cool place
to visit. i recall the rock creek trip's daytime temps of 105-110F...

hope to see you during the visit larry.

jeff

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 15:21:20 -0600, (Dave S) wrote:

If you came to Montana to, say, see a grizzly, would you go to a zoo?
Would you go to Egypt and NOT see the pyramids? Do you ever order a
hamburger at a fine steakhouse?


Hmmmm. Let's seeeee, Wicky..... I can call you Wicky can't I? I've
fished the Madison, the Yellowstone, went looking for Fawn Lake but
couldn't find it. I've fished the Middle Fork of the Salmon as well
as the West Fork. Henry's Fork was fished very successfully - sort of
like shooting fish in a barrel. (I know, I know, that's Idaho, but I
try to spread the wealth around dontchaknow?) Went "up the hill" from
the Bighorn to fish an unnamed spring creek in Wyoming for little
Cutts on a 3 weight and a size 16 Adams I've been to Alaska three
times for *wild* trout and salmon, Kamchatka (Zuponava River) for
GIANT rainbows (32 inchers) and char (5 pounders), I've taken
steelhead and chinook (King) salmon out of the Saugeen in Ontario (on
a 7 weight). I've fished several wild rivers in Main for large
brooktrout and landlocks (just got back from a month on the famous
Rapid River), BIG brookies on the Antakonak River in Labrador, as
well as BIG brookies from the English River in Labrador. BIG brookies
are 3 to 8 pounds, normous creatures that looked like gaudy footballs.
Plus I've fished the Great Smokeys, Penns Creek for big browns, and
the Connecticut Lakes region as a boy in the 1940s - 50s, and of
course lesser streams, brooks, ponds, and drainage ditches throughout
the good old USA.

Oh, yeah, almost forgot:

I've fished within 30 feet of several grizzes (for three weeks), I was
in Egypt (briefly) but didn't see the Pyramids, and yes, I have
ordered a very good hamburger in a fine steakhouse (lunch, doncha
know?). In addition, I've seen Japan, The Phillipines, Vietnam (from
the air), Guam, Iwo Jima, Saipan (by air), Kwajalien, Wake, Midway,
South Africa, Rio DeJanero, Rome, Paris, London, Hamburg, Bremen,
Zurich and Davos Switzerland, The Azores (three of the islands),
Lizbon, Madrid, Ice Land (from a periscope - really!), Jan Mayen
Island (look than up in your Funk and Wagnal) Morrocco, Panama (ya
ever seen the canal - wonderful experience. Ever caught a tarpon?),
Mexico, Guatamala, Bogata Colombia (landed in an air craft that only
had another 5000 feet on its max elevation - scarey ride), Cali
Colombia, and of course Canada and Russia. In addition, I've crashed
twice in aircraft. Once at Wright Patterson in Ohio, and another at
Atsugi, Japan.

I've been fly fishing since about 1947 when I got my first "made in
occupied Japan" Sears bamboo flyrod ($5, thankyouverymuch). My mom
tied flies and gave me lessons as a boy about the time I got my first
non-steel fly rod (the Sears) I remember silk lines, and the first
Cortland (333 I believe) fly line.

And, I now have 440 days on my G3s without a leak. Took another nasty
fall last week. No leak from the waders, but there was a nasty leak
from my right shin/knee. I think the G3s are gonna outlast me. Can't
take many more falls.

BTW, I never claimed the Bighorn was the best river I ever fished -
that honor would go to Morraine Creek in Alaska, but I *did* have fun
on the Bighorn and I did catch some very fussy bows on dries. Ain't
that what it's all about?

Now, tell me a little bit about yourself, kid.

d;op

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 15:21:20 -0600, (Dave S) wrote:

3) disabled people who may have fewer
options.

Oooops, forgot to add. I can't walk to well. At least not very far
or very fast. Would I qualify for 3)?

Another oooops. Make that the South Fork of the Salmon, the one near
Yellow Pine. Didn't catch much, but wonderful to see.

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 20:27:21 -0400, Dave LaCourse
wrote:

Another oooops. Make that the South Fork of the Salmon, the one near
Yellow Pine. Didn't catch much, but wonderful to see.

Wow! I built a cabin outside Yellow Pine back in 1969... on Salt
Creek... Worked for the Forest Service at Landmark a bit south of
town.

neat area before the burn up Lick Creek.....most are, before
Harry
troutflies com