Newbie leader question

On 11 Nov, 01:53, mdk77 wrote:
On Nov 10, 11:52 am, Dave LaCourse wrote:

What are you fishing for using 7x leader?

Like those who posted before me, I would go to a 4x or 5x leader and
then go to a smaller tippet. There is little water I have fished that
requires a 7x tippet.

Another neat little trick is to go to fluoro carbon tippet. A 5x fc
is about the same as a 6x nylon as far as strength and visibility in
the water. I carry nothing but 5x in fc tippet. I use Orvis super
strong leaders and tippet. I have used RIO a couple of times when I
left home on a trip and found myself short of leaders. No problems
with 5x RIOs.

Dave

I'm going to try fishing at Taneycomo, Mo. next year and that was
recommended. I'd never fished anything smaller than 5x and I also
fish 7.5' leaders, so the 9' was alien to me also. I thought I'd
"practice" a bit around home here with the new leaders. I caught
white bass on it locally. But the leaders had coil-memory that I
couldn't straighten out. I hated fishing with them. The 9' 7x
leaders with additional tippet seemed like fishing with spiderweb, and
on windy days. I'm fishing a 4wt DT line with this setup.

Maybe the leaders had been "on the shelf" a long time before I bought
them. I noticed that the rated "pound test" on the leader package was
less than what Rio now sells. So maybe these leaders were sitting for
years before they were purchased, and that was why they had the
permanent coil problems. It was like fishing with a "slinky" toy that
I had as a kid.

Anyway, I'm going back to my old leaders. I'll take the advice on
ROFF and go with fine tippet, but not the long 7x leaders.

If you want to remove "memory" from nylon leader, then just place it
in very hot water, and hold it straight until it cools, or place it in
cold water.

Fine nylon is more prone to retaining memory anyway. The longer it
remains coiled the more memory it retains. Also, if such coiled
leaders are kep in a warm place, or left on the dashboard of a car
etc, the memory is programmed immediately. The only way to remove it
is by heating and then cooling.

The same applies to any thermoplastic material, including fly-lines.

MC

On 10-Nov-2007, Mike wrote:

If you want to remove "memory" from nylon leader, then just place it
in very hot water, and hold it straight until it cools, or place it in
cold water.

Fine nylon is more prone to retaining memory anyway. The longer it
remains coiled the more memory it retains. Also, if such coiled
leaders are kep in a warm place, or left on the dashboard of a car
etc, the memory is programmed immediately. The only way to remove it
is by heating and then cooling.

The same applies to any thermoplastic material, including fly-lines.

OK

So that the next time I use nylon leader will I will have to do this
repeatedly-
Sometimes more than once a day? - Dependant on weather and water conditions?
If so I am staying w fleuro carbon

Fred

On 11 Nov, 07:47, wrote:
On 10-Nov-2007, Mike wrote:

If you want to remove "memory" from nylon leader, then just place it
in very hot water, and hold it straight until it cools, or place it in
cold water.

Fine nylon is more prone to retaining memory anyway. The longer it
remains coiled the more memory it retains. Also, if such coiled
leaders are kep in a warm place, or left on the dashboard of a car
etc, the memory is programmed immediately. The only way to remove it
is by heating and then cooling.

The same applies to any thermoplastic material, including fly-lines.

OK

So that the next time I use nylon leader will I will have to do this
repeatedly-
Sometimes more than once a day? - Dependant on weather and water conditions?
If so I am staying w fleuro carbon

Fred

No, you only have to do it once. In cold weather, placing the leader
in a hot cup of coffee for instance, and then holding it straight
while it cools ( It is NOT necessary to stretch it), will ensure that
the leader remains straight.

The same applies to fly-line. Although you may need a larger coffee
cup.

MC

On 11 Nov, 07:47, wrote:
On 10-Nov-2007, Mike wrote:

If you want to remove "memory" from nylon leader, then just place it
in very hot water, and hold it straight until it cools, or place it in
cold water.

Fine nylon is more prone to retaining memory anyway. The longer it
remains coiled the more memory it retains. Also, if such coiled
leaders are kep in a warm place, or left on the dashboard of a car
etc, the memory is programmed immediately. The only way to remove it
is by heating and then cooling.

The same applies to any thermoplastic material, including fly-lines.

OK

So that the next time I use nylon leader will I will have to do this
repeatedly-
Sometimes more than once a day? - Dependant on weather and water conditions?
If so I am staying w fleuro carbon

Fred

"Fluorocarbon" is merely nylon coated with fluorocarbon, and suffers
form the same problems. The rather stiffer fluorocarbon coating
prevents some memory problems to an extent, but causes others, not
least problems with knots.

MC

On 10-Nov-2007, Mike wrote:

"Fluorocarbon" is merely nylon coated with fluorocarbon, and suffers
form the same problems. The rather stiffer fluorocarbon coating
prevents some memory problems to an extent, but causes others, not
least problems with knots.

============================

I did not kniow that it was nylon only coated w flrocarbon
I thought that the fiber was " flurocarbon" itself

Do you mean wind knots or memoriy after tying a knot?
And what do you use?

Fred

On 11 Nov, 08:02, wrote:
On 10-Nov-2007, Mike wrote:

"Fluorocarbon" is merely nylon coated with fluorocarbon, and suffers
form the same problems. The rather stiffer fluorocarbon coating
prevents some memory problems to an extent, but causes others, not
least problems with knots.

============================

I did not kniow that it was nylon only coated w flrocarbon
I thought that the fiber was " flurocarbon" itself

Do you mean wind knots or memoriy after tying a knot?
And what do you use?

Fred

No, the monofilament itself is nylon, which is a copolymer. The
coating is fluorocarbon. One can not mix fluorocarbon with the
molecular structure of nylon.

The problems with fluorocarbon coated nylon are various. This is is
due to the properties of the fluorocarbon. It is stiffer than nylon,
it has a lower coefficient of friction, and it shields the nylon from
decay. Ordinary nylon will eventually decay as a result of light and
other other effects, but nobody knows how long fluorocarbon will last,
present estimates range from forty or fifty years, to centuries. This
alone is in my opinion a good reason not to use it. If you unpick a
wind knot in fluorocarbon coated nylon, that portion of the line is
irreparably damaged. The stiff fluorocarbon coating is compromised at
that poinnt.

I use ordinary nylon. I like Maxima, but I will quite happily use any
other brand as well.

MC

Many of the "standard" knots in nylon are typical "jam" knots. They
work because the coefficient of friction of the nylon allows them to
work. Fluorocarbon has a very much lower coefficient of friction, and
as a consequence, many knots will not work.

MC

There are now only about six manufacturers of nylon on the planet. All
the nylon is manufactured in an identical manner. The final properties
of any particular batch are controlled by the degree of
polymerisation, and any post productin treatment involved.

Various coatings affect those properties considerably as well. The
ordinary nylon used for fishing line is basically all more or less
identical. Some is "harder" as a result of being post-production
treated by heating and stretching over roller systems. Some is softer
as it is merely extruded and spooled.

Stretching and heating any thermoplastic has the effect of rearranging
the molecular structure of the polymer chains in a longitudinal
manner. This makes the result stronger when subjected to a direct
pull, but reduces its shear strength.

"Memory" is an intrinsic property of all thermoplastics, which allows
them to return to their original shape after being deformed. Exceeding
the memory capacity of such plastics by deforming them beyond their
ability to reform, results in permanent deformation.

MC

"Memory" is an intrinsic property of all thermoplastics, which allows
them to return to their original shape after being deformed. Exceeding
the memory capacity of such plastics by deforming them beyond their
ability to reform, results in permanent deformation.


This is why some "kinks" and similar can not be removed from nylon,
even with heat, as the line has lost its capacity to reform at this
point.

Picking out wind knots which have formed very tightly also results in
more or less irreparable kinks for the same reason.

if you don´t remove wind knots immediately ( which have nothing at all
to do with wind, but are the result of poor casting and tailing
loops), then you might as well not bother, as the line is weakened
anyway.

MC

If you want some pretty good and fairly comprehensive info on Nylon,
then have a look here;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nylon

Knowing the properties of various things allows one to make better
choices in their use, or even to avoid them, and also explains why
they behave as they do. The "blurb" published by various fishing
tackle manufacturers is virtually never accurate, or even useful. In
the majority of cases it is merely advertising bull****.

MC