OT Lies, liars and SF-180

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:53:49 -0600, salmobytes
wrote:

Bush was of course a cocaine sniffing draft dodger.
The National Guard fights in wars these days.

Check the Wall, idiot. Lots of NG folks were lost in action,
including aviators.

Your post is horse****. SOS, different day.

Dave

Dave LaCourse wrote:

Check the Wall, idiot. Lots of NG folks were lost in action,
including aviators.

Well of course I could be wrong. That did happen at least once
before. But the way I remember it, the guard guys did not start
to participate until later on in the war: late sixties early
seventies. Back the mid 60s, when Bush
went in, it wasn't the case. Draft 'counselors' then used
to tell you the safest way to avoid the war was the guard,
in those days. But then they'd tell you it wasn't an option.
You couldn't get in unless you knew someone.

You're still a great guy in my book Dave: the angry redneck
with a heart of gold and all that.
I have no prejudice against the mentally impaired at all.
I'm easy.






--
/* Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh --O0
** Have code will travel
*/

"salmobytes" wrote in message
. ..
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Uh, OK. That works for me but I'm surprised to hear that
you voted for a draft dodger.


Bush was of course a cocaine sniffing draft dodger.
The National Guard fights in wars these days.
But they didn't back then. You couldn't get into
the guard then, if you didn't know somebody--because
it was the best and most "honorable" way to dodge combat (in the early
Vietnam days anyway, when Bush League went in).

Then he went awol and then his records disappeared.
Dozens of people have reported his cocaine abuse.
Most recently, McClellan documented Bush's awkward refusal
to deny sniffing cocaine. Repugnicans are in denial on this.
They want to have a **** fit because Bill Clinton
didn' inhale. But they have blinders on when it comes
to their own draft dodging cocaine sniffing moron president.

Idiots of a feather flock together.....



--
/* Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh --O0
** Have code will travel
*/

The National Guard airwings were always available to be shot at. Some of
the first flyers in Korea, and they had a very high death rate, were Guard
pilots.

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:26:18 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

Uh, OK. That works for me but I'm surprised to hear that
you voted for a draft dodger.

Didn't know it when I put the X in the box. I was ****ed at Bush 1.
Within weeks I was disappointed in my choice.

Dave

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:10:14 -0400, Dave LaCourse
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:16:36 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

why should the voters
see him as qualified to be Commander in Chief ?

For the same reason they voted for a draft dodger?

For the same reason they voted for someone who only served 1/2 a tour
in Nam as a Spec 4 and then flunked out of divinity school.

For the same reason they voted for an O3 with an "unusual" discharge?

And that has to do with McCain how, exactly?

Lots of navy captains do not make admiral. The important thing to
remember is that he made O6 (Captain) and that requires a helluva lot
of leadership qualities.

Generally speaking, yes, but let's not get into fantasyland here - there
have been officers of all ranks that, er, "wasn't fit to shovel ****
from one place to a'ner..."

Obama has done what?

As to executive governance, nothing, as the record clearly
demonstrates...

....but OTOH, very few newly-elected US Presidents have had prior
experience as US Presidents...only one, IIRC, has had prior
experience...and that won't change this year, either...

Actually served as a
senator for 143 days? I'll take the leadership of navy captain any
day to an inexperienced charasmatic senator.

Um...howsabout Duke Cunningham...?

And, if you think flying off a carrier on wartime sorties is a "plum
job", then you know diddly **** about flying or carriers. He was
there flying in harm's way. Your guy was at Oxford demonstrating
against the US while McCain was escaping from his exploding A4 Skyhawk
after the fire on Forrestal. McCain was almost killed in that fire.
The Forrestal was removed from the theater and returned home. The
entire air wing went with it, except for a few pilots that volunteered
to change to a different carrier air group. McCain volunteered for
than trasfer.

McCain has an honored family background of Naval heros. Your guy has
a black muslim father and a white mother whom he is ashamed of because
she's white. He was raised by his white grandparents, but praises not
them but his father.

Plum job, my ass. All of your boys are the ones with the plum jobs,
Ken.

Talk about trying to swiftboat Obama..............

Well, we could, or we could just, um, call a spade a spade: both
candidates, their respective parties, and their most ardent supporters
are practicing politics as usual...the first rule of which is to claim
you're gonna do what the people want - if they are happy, you promise to
insure the status quo and if they are unhappy, you claim you're the only
person in the country who can bring about change...

HTH,
R

Dave

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:16:36 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

The Times reports today that T. Boone Pickens, the Texas
billionaire who bankrolled the Swiftboaters has welshed
on his offer to pay anyone a million dollars if they could
prove the Swiftboaters were liars. John Kerry signed a
SF-180 which allowed the release of all his military records
and a group of veterans who served with Kerry used those
records and sworn affidavits to document ten lies. But
Pickens refuses to pay. No surprise there, if there's one
thing we know about the Swiftboaters it's that they're liars.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-says-no-deal/

So OK, that's history, fast forward to the present. I have
two related questions.

If John McCain's superior officers did not see him as qualified
to serve as a flag officer (Rear Admiral) why should the voters
see him as qualified to be Commander in Chief ? What did his
fellow officers know about this screwup of a cadet who finished
near the bottom of his class ? (As an aside, how does a screwup
like that get a plum assignment like flying planes off a carrier ?
Son and grandson of Admirals perhaps ?)

There is only one way to know why John McCain was never going to
be an Admiral and that is for John McCain to submit, as John Kerry
did, a SF-180 releasing all his military records in full. Why
won't he do that ?

And question number three, why isn't the media all over this like
stink on **** ?

Um, "the media" ought to "get involved" because one blog has alleged
that someone is not living up to what another blog (alleged by the first
blog to be merely "sympathetic" to the someone in question) claimed he
said he'd do? Ah, well, maybe "the media" are just too busy not being
all over Obama's well-documented personally-delivered promises covered
by "the media" that he'd stick to public funding and then, didn't live
up to those promises...like stink on ****...

....or maybe "the media" is just swamped...digging through the McCain
recipe files...

And, ahem, while it's otherwise known as "the voice of the right-wing,"
but you might wish to glance at this:

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/040...g,51276,1.html

and this:

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/052...g,64705,6.html


HTH,
R

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
The Times reports today that T. Boone Pickens, the Texas
billionaire who bankrolled the Swiftboaters has welshed
on his offer to pay anyone a million dollars if they could
prove the Swiftboaters were liars. John Kerry signed a
SF-180 which allowed the release of all his military records
and a group of veterans who served with Kerry used those
records and sworn affidavits to document ten lies. But
Pickens refuses to pay. No surprise there, if there's one
thing we know about the Swiftboaters it's that they're liars.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-says-no-deal/

So OK, that's history, fast forward to the present. I have
two related questions.

If John McCain's superior officers did not see him as qualified
to serve as a flag officer (Rear Admiral) why should the voters
see him as qualified to be Commander in Chief ? What did his
fellow officers know about this screwup of a cadet who finished
near the bottom of his class ? (As an aside, how does a screwup
like that get a plum assignment like flying planes off a carrier ?
Son and grandson of Admirals perhaps ?)

There is only one way to know why John McCain was never going to
be an Admiral and that is for John McCain to submit, as John Kerry
did, a SF-180 releasing all his military records in full. Why
won't he do that ?

And question number three, why isn't the media all over this like
stink on **** ?

Um, "the media" ought to "get involved" because one blog has alleged
that someone is not living up to what another blog (alleged by the first
blog to be merely "sympathetic" to the someone in question) claimed he
said he'd do? ...

I'm not talking about the media investigating T. Boone Pickens
and you know it. I'm wondering out loud why there's not been
any mention of McCain being a failure as a career naval officer.
I mean the guy had everything going for him, pedigree, war hero,
yadda yadda yadda, but when it came time to go from captain to
admiral his fellow officers made it clear that he didn't measure
up. Why ? Was it temperament, judgment, intellect ? Why wasn't
John McCain, in the opinion of his fellow officers, fit to be an
admiral in the US Navy ? I think the voters are entitled to know
but McCain won't release his military records. Why ? The wingers
on the right were quick to criticize Kerry when he wouldn't release
his military records but McCain gets a pass. Why ?

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:46:00 -0500, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
The Times reports today that T. Boone Pickens, the Texas
billionaire who bankrolled the Swiftboaters has welshed
on his offer to pay anyone a million dollars if they could
prove the Swiftboaters were liars. John Kerry signed a
SF-180 which allowed the release of all his military records
and a group of veterans who served with Kerry used those
records and sworn affidavits to document ten lies. But
Pickens refuses to pay. No surprise there, if there's one
thing we know about the Swiftboaters it's that they're liars.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-says-no-deal/

So OK, that's history, fast forward to the present. I have
two related questions.

If John McCain's superior officers did not see him as qualified
to serve as a flag officer (Rear Admiral) why should the voters
see him as qualified to be Commander in Chief ? What did his
fellow officers know about this screwup of a cadet who finished
near the bottom of his class ? (As an aside, how does a screwup
like that get a plum assignment like flying planes off a carrier ?
Son and grandson of Admirals perhaps ?)

There is only one way to know why John McCain was never going to
be an Admiral and that is for John McCain to submit, as John Kerry
did, a SF-180 releasing all his military records in full. Why
won't he do that ?

And question number three, why isn't the media all over this like
stink on **** ?

Um, "the media" ought to "get involved" because one blog has alleged
that someone is not living up to what another blog (alleged by the first
blog to be merely "sympathetic" to the someone in question) claimed he
said he'd do? ...

I'm not talking about the media investigating T. Boone Pickens
and you know it. I'm wondering out loud why there's not been
any mention of McCain being a failure as a career naval officer.
I mean the guy had everything going for him, pedigree, war hero,
yadda yadda yadda, but when it came time to go from captain to
admiral his fellow officers made it clear that he didn't measure
up. Why ? Was it temperament, judgment, intellect ? Why wasn't
John McCain, in the opinion of his fellow officers, fit to be an
admiral in the US Navy ? I think the voters are entitled to know
but McCain won't release his military records. Why ? The wingers
on the right were quick to criticize Kerry when he wouldn't release
his military records but McCain gets a pass. Why ?

Hmmm...you'd think John Kerry would be among the first and loudest in
making demands rather than actively preventing at least a large portion
of the records from being released.

Anyway, what do you allege is there to "investigate?" Most of his
records HAVE been released, some by McCain, some via FOI requests. Even
without the releases thus far, his record is generally well-known. IAC,
I don't recall any widespread claims that McCain was the best officer
ever, nor has McCain actively claimed such (or passively or tacitly,
either). Moreover, I'd offer that about the only things involving
McCain and the military of which much is made by _anyone_, all
undisputedly true, are that: a) he voluntarily served for 20-plus years,
c) he voluntarily served in combat, and, c) he was a POW as a result of
that service (some, including Obama, call him a "hero" because of this -
I've no real opinion either way specifically as to McCain solely with
regard to his former POW status other than being captured doesn't
automatically make someone a "hero.") I'd further offer that if McCain
hadn't met Cindy AFTER having been appointed Senate liaison, you'd not
know or care who John McCain is. Sorta like if Obama hadn't made a
single speech, damned few would know or care who Obama is...

OTOH, a little research into his military career might educate you a
bit. Suffice to say that it appears he did show extreme "heroism" on a
number of occasions, such as on the Forrestal and as POW by refusing the
offered "propaganda" release (try to find fault with THAT...) unless all
were. As to being a flag officer, he was on-track for that (and in was
clearly in his future had he chosen to remain), but not a full admiral,
and certainly not a 4-star as his father and grandfather. His last
command, IIRC, was exemplary, but his personal conduct, ala, um, getting
his prop waxed, was less so. FWIW, I suspect his records would be at
worst a wash as far as "the voters" and their opinion as to his fitness
for POTUS - his early years would be net-negative, his later years
net-positive. I'd further offer that this may be a classic case of be
careful of that for which you ask, lest you get it...

TC,
R

wrote in news:v4p764duqiuvgn1oj2vtg46gf8v3vvg538@
4ax.com:

Even
without the releases thus far, his record is generally well-known. IAC,
I don't recall any widespread claims that McCain was the best officer
ever, nor has McCain actively claimed such (or passively or tacitly,
either). Moreover, I'd offer that about the only things involving
McCain and the military of which much is made by _anyone_, all
undisputedly true, are that: a) he voluntarily served for 20-plus years,

McCain published in his book that he left the military after being told he
wouldn't be going much further than he already was. A fairly recent
NYTimes feature had his people claiming that he left the military knowing
he would get flag rank had he stayed in.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

On 26 Jun 2008 19:52:24 GMT, Scott Seidman
wrote:

wrote in news:v4p764duqiuvgn1oj2vtg46gf8v3vvg538@
4ax.com:

Even
without the releases thus far, his record is generally well-known. IAC,
I don't recall any widespread claims that McCain was the best officer
ever, nor has McCain actively claimed such (or passively or tacitly,
either). Moreover, I'd offer that about the only things involving
McCain and the military of which much is made by _anyone_, all
undisputedly true, are that: a) he voluntarily served for 20-plus years,

McCain published in his book that he left the military after being told he
wouldn't be going much further than he already was. A fairly recent
NYTimes feature had his people claiming that he left the military knowing
he would get flag rank had he stayed in.

I'd offer that RA wasn't "much further," especially for McCain, who
apparently had a goal of four stars. IAC, I don't see that it matters
much either way - at the very least, he didn't have the physicals for
"much further." And given the origins of his physical problems, IMO, it
would be sorta like, oh, say, calling Max Cleland "bad" because he was
"unfit" to be a fighter pilot...

TC,
R