OT GM bailout

In article ,
Ken Fortenberry wrote:

I don't *want* to see them bailed out either, but I don't think
there's really any choice. Now is not the time to lose one out
of every ten jobs in the country. It's a damn shame and a bitter
pill to swallow but we can't let the Big 3 go belly up no matter
how much they richly deserve it.

However, the moment the government puts one penny of my tax dollar
into that mess I want a clean sweep. That means fire every damn
executive in the company, tear up the union contracts, void all
deals with suppliers, tell the shareholders "tough ****, you got
nothin'", and turn the whole thing over to government receivership
with the intention of making the company viable and once again
publicly owned ASAP.

My two centavos.

Damn you are making a ton of sense. Usually you are just a asshole to
people.

what a stupid idea to bail out a dying business....





On Nov 18, 12:12*pm, "Larry L" wrote:
One of the great things about ROFF is that I can spout off about things I
don't know much about *.... and fit right in G

I, personally, don't want to see GM 'bailed out' *via my money. * Let 'em go
BK and restructure. * Their business model is dead ... bury the damn corpse,
don't keep it on a heart lung machine pretending it's still alive

YOMV

On Nov 18, 12:45*pm, "~^ beancounter ~^"
wrote:
SNIP
So your bet is billions for the bankers and zip for American workers?
So maybe you have some suggestions on where the US companies that sell
the largest share of of their plastics, chemicals, electronics,
rubber, and steel to the US auto manufacturers should sell their
production, when they go into the ground BECAUSE foreign autos are
subsidised by a $1000 or more a vehicle, and BECAUSE foreign owned
plants do not have retiree pensions to pay, or health care costs at
their off shore plants?

Sure, lets hollow out even more of our industrial capacity. Thats the
failed Wingnut Republican economic plan. Maybe we can say **** you to
all American workers, issue each family an illegal worker, and pretend
our stock portfolios represent actual wealth.

No thanx. I'll keep my bet on America, its people, it's land, its
enterprise, my kids and my grand kids.

Dave
Ideology still sucks

"DaveS" wrote in message
...
On Nov 18, 12:45 pm, "~^ beancounter ~^"
wrote:
SNIP
So your bet is billions for the bankers and zip for American workers?
So maybe you have some suggestions on where the US companies that sell
the largest share of of their plastics, chemicals, electronics,
rubber, and steel to the US auto manufacturers should sell their
production, when they go into the ground BECAUSE foreign autos are
subsidised by a $1000 or more a vehicle, and BECAUSE foreign owned
plants do not have retiree pensions to pay, or health care costs at
their off shore plants?

Sure, lets hollow out even more of our industrial capacity. Thats the
failed Wingnut Republican economic plan. Maybe we can say **** you to
all American workers, issue each family an illegal worker, and pretend
our stock portfolios represent actual wealth.

No thanx. I'll keep my bet on America, its people, it's land, its
enterprise, my kids and my grand kids.

Dave
Ideology still sucks

One of the big things is that the pension and health care system was paid
for by the cost of the new cars...What Union in their right mind would not
want a pension system funded by investments rather than the word of the
boss?

Couple that with a failure to foresee the future and....what a
minute...didn't some Nobel prize guy write a paper called 'The Looting of
America?"

On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:12:28 GMT, "Larry L"
wrote:

One of the great things about ROFF is that I can spout off about things I
don't know much about .... and fit right in G


I, personally, don't want to see GM 'bailed out' via my money. Let 'em go
BK and restructure. Their business model is dead ... bury the damn corpse,
don't keep it on a heart lung machine pretending it's still alive


YOMV


They made their deals with the unions. Now let them live with it. Do
you think the unions would give up 1 cent to help the big three
automakers. No way. The stupid spineless ceos have let the unions
run rough shod over them for as long as I can remember. AND, Detroit
makes crap to boot.

I have been employed since I was 12. Paid my taxes on time. Always
have paid my bills and have paid my own way since I was 18. There are
millions of folks just like me. We have had two or three mortgages
in our lifetimes and have never missed a payment. Most of the same
people have saved for their future so they will not become a dredge on
society. I have been saving since I was a E4 in the Navy, making but
a few dollars every week just so I would not be a dredge on society.
Many of us have served our country faithfully. and some of us still
are. Why the hell should MY taxes, OUR taxes, go to bail out
ANYTHING? I should think that those good taxpayers who have
never defaulted on a loan, have never cheated anyone, have been
faithful to their mortgage payments and to their government deserve to
be "bailed out" a helluva lot more that the automakers, aig, or any of
the banks. Screw 'em if they can't keep up. Screw the unions, Barney
Frank, Chris Dodd, et al.

And before you open your yap, Ken, eff you too.

Dave

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:12:28 GMT, "Larry L"
wrote:

One of the great things about ROFF is that I can spout off about things I
don't know much about .... and fit right in G


I, personally, don't want to see GM 'bailed out' via my money. Let 'em
go
BK and restructure. Their business model is dead ... bury the damn
corpse,
don't keep it on a heart lung machine pretending it's still alive


YOMV


They made their deals with the unions. Now let them live with it. Do
you think the unions would give up 1 cent to help the big three
automakers. No way. The stupid spineless ceos have let the unions
run rough shod over them for as long as I can remember. AND, Detroit
makes crap to boot.

I have been employed since I was 12. Paid my taxes on time. Always
have paid my bills and have paid my own way since I was 18. There are
millions of folks just like me. We have had two or three mortgages
in our lifetimes and have never missed a payment. Most of the same
people have saved for their future so they will not become a dredge on
society. I have been saving since I was a E4 in the Navy, making but
a few dollars every week just so I would not be a dredge on society.
Many of us have served our country faithfully. and some of us still
are. Why the hell should MY taxes, OUR taxes, go to bail out
ANYTHING? I should think that those good taxpayers who have
never defaulted on a loan, have never cheated anyone, have been
faithful to their mortgage payments and to their government deserve to
be "bailed out" a helluva lot more that the automakers, aig, or any of
the banks. Screw 'em if they can't keep up. Screw the unions, Barney
Frank, Chris Dodd, et al.

And before you open your yap, Ken, eff you too.

Dave



Dave you ol' pirate...

You are being just a little too hard on the unions - you exhibit the
behavior of one who always wanted a union but never had one...

I worked for the 'guvner' and had a union and am glad I did...to the point.
But I do agree that some glaring, obvious mistakes were made...non funded
pension plans, lack of market competition...and so forth

....but they only thing to blame is the love of mamon...or is in
mammon....anyhow, if you get it fresh at the farmers market it's not too
bad...

john

On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 18:59:48 -0800, "asadi"
wrote:

Dave you ol' pirate...

You are being just a little too hard on the unions - you exhibit the
behavior of one who always wanted a union but never had one...

I worked for the 'guvner' and had a union and am glad I did...to the point.
But I do agree that some glaring, obvious mistakes were made...non funded
pension plans, lack of market competition...and so forth



John, I grew up with unions. Every kid in my neighborhood had a
father or mother working for the unions. Westinghouse in East
Springfield was the big employer. My dad was a Teamster and HAD to
belong to the union or he didn't work. Today the state is a right to
work state. It wasn't then. My dad got absolutely nothing from the
Teamsters except a pin each year saying how many safe miles he'd
driven. They took his money and gave him a pin. Who benefited from
all that dues? Hoffa and his hacks. Not my dad.

Westinghouse would go on strike every Nov/Dec. They'd be unemployed
for five or six weeks and finally settle the strike for pennies
more/hour. I can remember my dad shaking his head and calling them
fools. The only people that made out were the union bigwigs. The
little people certainly didn't. I have hated the unions ever since.

I've never worked for a union shop (thankfully), but I have had to do
business with them when I worked for Honeywell Electro Ops (infra red
dectectors). I worked on the AN/AAD5 FLIR and had to take a couple of
units to a factory in a nearby town for vibration testing. What a
cluster **** that was. What would have taken me two maybe three hours
to do took TWO days by these union heehaws. It brought back memories
from my childhood.

Glad you liked/needed them. Guess that's why we have chocolate and
vanilla. If GM can renegotiate the union contracts, get rid of the
ridiculous "job bank", build a better product at lower cost than
Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Subaru, Hyndai, and yes, even Kia, they may
survive after restructuring. But right now, they need to be shot and
put out of their misery. They shoot horses, don't they?

On 22-Nov-2008, Dave LaCourse wrote:

If GM can renegotiate the union contracts, get rid of the
ridiculous "job bank", build a better product at lower cost than
Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Subaru, Hyndai, and yes, even Kia, they may
survive after restructuring. But right now, they need to be shot and
put out of their misery. They shoot horses, don't they?


The foreign auto makers are so far superior to the GM autos that there is no
way, in this lifetime , i would ever by another US built Ford or GM
We buy Toyotas
IWe have a 1997 Ford F250 pickup as a farm vehicle
Not the best even when it was new!
We will buy a Tundra when this dies.

Good riddance to GM

A bailout?
A total waste of money anda crime perpertrated upon the US taxpayer!
The unions esp the UAW have long ago sold out and become ineffective and
even counter productuve

If this happens
I will secede forom the union

IMP
This is the kind of industry that should go to foreign shores

Fred

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 18:32:38 GMT, "Fred"
wrote:

This is the kind of industry that should go to foreign shores


Whoooooa, big hoss. Don't say that. Fortenberry and Barnard will
never speak to you again. d;o)

"Larry L" wrote in
:

One of the great things about ROFF is that I can spout off about
things I don't know much about .... and fit right in G


I, personally, don't want to see GM 'bailed out' via my money. Let
'em go BK and restructure. Their business model is dead ... bury the
damn corpse, don't keep it on a heart lung machine pretending it's
still alive


YOMV



If you think a tax increase on those making more than $250K will damper
the economy, wait until 10% more of American jobs start getting squishy.

This is probably the wrong time to be letting them go. Even if we can
keep them viable for 18 more months, it might well be worth it.

--
Scott
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