Flyline/Leader Connection Question

On 16 Jun 2004 13:35:31 -0700, (Skip Summer)
wrote:

Planning on using some mono to connect flyline
to leader, using a nail knot. What pound test
mono should I use? 4 weight flyline.
This rod will be used for bluegills.
Thanks in advance for the help.
Skip

Are you "dapping" (not exactly true "dapping," as in the UK, etc., with
floss and long rods, but actually similar in technique, with shorter
rods and, as shown below, sometimes, er, lax standards about the
proprieties...) or truly casting? If dapping, forget the leader, get
some 6, 8, or pushing it, even 10 pound test Spiderwire. If you're
truly casting, get something around 15-20, use with the leader, and
you'll either have it for other reels, or for playing around with the
dapping. And it doesn't HAVE to be Spiderwire - that's what we get -
but get something of similar diameter/characteristics.

Heck, one cousin just drags some from the handiest light (non-fly) reel,
and goes after it. Doesn't work very well, though - they only got about
100 last weekend...some folks have tried and tried to tell him about
such haphazard fishing procedures at after-fish get-togethers...he just
thanks them, and goes back to eating his fried fish and watching the
scaler turn...

HTH,
R

None of the below. Its the result of actual mechanical testing.

I think that's both bad advice and misinformation. I've seen
braided loops pull off and a fly line will break long before
a well tied nail knot will fail.

If it's the loop you're after I'd recommend a nail knot and a
small perfection loop instead of a braided loop and super glue.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Svend Tang-Petersen wrote:

None of the below. Its the result of actual mechanical testing.

There are "mechanical tests" that prove a braided loop is a
stronger connection than a nail knot ?

That doesn't jibe with my experience but I'd be interested
to read the actual study.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Our club does a knots and leader seminar once or twice a year. Its held
by a retired NASA
mechanical engineer who brings along a stress testing device. (Imagine a
big spring you can
attach your line too. As you pull on the line the spring expands and
pushes an indicator along a
scale measuring basically force applied (spring: F=k*expansion). When
the knot/line breaks
the indicator stays at the max expansion so you can read at what force
the line broke). He has tested all
sorts of knots, leader systems, leader materials (some have less
breaking strength if you spit on the
leader when you thighten the knot) etc..

I think the nailknot breaks at 80% of line strength, where as a properly
done braid is close to 100%.
The man problem with the nailknot is that it basically strips off the
coating of your flyline. If you think
about a nailknot only grips your flyline over a length of roughly 1/12
inch, but a braid is usually 2.5 - 3
inches long so its gripping the flyline over a significantly larger
area. Its weak point it the loop, and if
your braids slip they weren't done properly.

He (Bill Nash)has a nice little booklet showing various line system and
knot strengths and did an in-class test that was very illustrative using
a standart line and leader setup as is usually recommended but the line
manufacturers.

He does a lot of striper fishing which is what got him into the testing.
Ill see if I can get a copy of his
booklet for you. (mail my with your address).

Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Svend Tang-Petersen wrote:

None of the below. Its the result of actual mechanical testing.


There are "mechanical tests" that prove a braided loop is a
stronger connection than a nail knot ?

That doesn't jibe with my experience but I'd be interested
to read the actual study.

The question is moot. Even a poorly tied nail knot or braided loop or
perfection loop in heavy mono will be far stronger than the tippet,
unless you're doing something very wrong.

I dislike loop-to-loop connections whenever delicacy of presentation is
an issue. For sal****er fishing, steelhead fishing, shooting heads, etc.
they can be handy, but I still think being able to tie on a butt section
with a nail knot, and a leader to that with a blood knot, is the best
combination.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

http://hometown.aol.com/billsknots/

yes and no. If you are using 4pound tippet and a knot that is only 80% your
tippet strength is effectively
3.6 pounds. So tying proper knots will allow you to use thinner materials
and thus a more delicate
presentation.



The question is moot. Even a poorly tied nail knot or braided loop or
perfection loop in heavy mono will be far stronger than the tippet,
unless you're doing something very wrong.

I dislike loop-to-loop connections whenever delicacy of presentation is
an issue. For sal****er fishing, steelhead fishing, shooting heads, etc.
they can be handy, but I still think being able to tie on a butt section
with a nail knot, and a leader to that with a blood knot, is the best
combination.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Svend Tang-Petersen wrote:

http://hometown.aol.com/billsknots/


Nice link. Thanks, Svend.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Svend Tang-Petersen wrote:

yes and no. If you are using 4pound tippet and a knot that is only 80% your
tippet strength is effectively
3.6 pounds. So tying proper knots will allow you to use thinner materials
and thus a more delicate
presentation.

I entirely agree that good knots are important, but I thought we were
talking about flyline/leader connections, where the breaking tension is
maybe 50 pounds. If you use an 80% knot, you're down to 40 pounds, and
your 4-pound tippet is still an order of magnitude weaker.

I prefer a flyline/leader connection that slips easily through the
guides, presents the least possible wind resistance, turns over the
leader, and lands quietly on the water. If I want to change leaders,
which I very rarely do, I can tie a blood knot to the butt section about
as fast as I can change a loop-to-loop connection.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"Skip Summer" wrote in message
om...
Planning on using some mono to connect flyline
to leader, using a nail knot. What pound test
mono should I use? 4 weight flyline.
This rod will be used for bluegills.
Thanks in advance for the help.

The # test you will be using is irrelevant, you want the diameter of the
mono attached to the fly line to be 2/3 rd's of the diameter of the fly
line. .