fish finder

Simon Atkinson wrote:
: "Phil.L" wrote in message
: ...
:: Laffinkitten wrote:
::: what''s wrong with virtual fishing?
::
:: nothing, and i never implied there was.
:: but as compared to the real thing its no substitute.
::
::
: but as a tool for searching out features such as snags and the make
: up of the bed I can see the use of it, no dragging a lead covered in
: weed spooking fish, it would be a visible marker on the surface so
: you will know exactly the location of the features and if you fish
: some of the smaller older pools not the usual gravel pits there are
: often submerged trees etc where a lead snags and often has to be
: pulled for a break you could accurately find the areas where you
: could fish safely.

they may have a small amount of fans who've just forked out a fortune to buy
them, but they wont become commonplace, simply because a lot of anglers
(most in my opinion) fish the same places time and again, and once they
'know' what the water is like, maybe after one or two uses, it will be left
in the shed, or in the small ads in the local rag for a fiver.


:
: I know we are talking gadgets here but I've seen pole fishers use fish
: finders and I'm sure once people scoffed at bite alarms when swing
: tips were satisfactory.

swing tips are still satisfactory, as are baitrunners without alarms, and
for that matter an old washing-up liquid bottle top.
they all do the same thing, IE, let you know you've got a bite, the only
thing they dont do is let everyone else know youve got a bite.
That said, bite alarms are a bonus for night fishing, but other than that,
they fall nicely into the 'useless gadget' dept.

: Even the guy who reviewed it for the AT (who
: I suggest is a competent angler) found a couple of fish holding
: features on his local river that he did not know before, it is just a
: tool, a aid to fishing and as a tool I can see a swim being mapped
: out quicker and easier allowing more time to fish.

i wouldnt read too much into ATs reviews, as i've been getting it for years
and i've yet to read a bad one.
They get paid a lot of money for 'reviewing' new products and almost always
give the product in question a brilliant write up, then when you buy it, it
turns out to be a pile of crap.

"Phil.L" wrote in message
...
Simon Atkinson wrote:
: "Phil.L" wrote in message
: ...
:: Laffinkitten wrote:
::: what''s wrong with virtual fishing?
::
:: nothing, and i never implied there was.
:: but as compared to the real thing its no substitute.
::
::
: but as a tool for searching out features such as snags and the make
: up of the bed I can see the use of it, no dragging a lead covered in
: weed spooking fish, it would be a visible marker on the surface so
: you will know exactly the location of the features and if you fish
: some of the smaller older pools not the usual gravel pits there are
: often submerged trees etc where a lead snags and often has to be
: pulled for a break you could accurately find the areas where you
: could fish safely.

they may have a small amount of fans who've just forked out a fortune to
buy
them, but they wont become commonplace, simply because a lot of anglers
(most in my opinion) fish the same places time and again, and once they
'know' what the water is like, maybe after one or two uses, it will be
left
in the shed, or in the small ads in the local rag for a fiver.

I agree most anglers fish the same lakes, the same swims in the same lakes,
to the same feature in the same swims in the same lakes or three rods fanned
out cast as far as possible in the same swims in the same lakes (getting
repetative but the point is there)

:
: I know we are talking gadgets here but I've seen pole fishers use fish
: finders and I'm sure once people scoffed at bite alarms when swing
: tips were satisfactory.

swing tips are still satisfactory, as are baitrunners without alarms, and
for that matter an old washing-up liquid bottle top.
they all do the same thing, IE, let you know you've got a bite, the only
thing they dont do is let everyone else know youve got a bite.

you missed out a piece of foil twisted around the line next to the reel

That said, bite alarms are a bonus for night fishing, but other than that,
they fall nicely into the 'useless gadget' dept.

: Even the guy who reviewed it for the AT (who
: I suggest is a competent angler) found a couple of fish holding
: features on his local river that he did not know before, it is just a
: tool, a aid to fishing and as a tool I can see a swim being mapped
: out quicker and easier allowing more time to fish.

i wouldnt read too much into ATs reviews, as i've been getting it for
years
and i've yet to read a bad one.
They get paid a lot of money for 'reviewing' new products and almost
always
give the product in question a brilliant write up, then when you buy it,
it
turns out to be a pile of crap.



Is it me or does any one else find some of the posts a little bit cynical?
In stead of looking for good points people seem to be too interested in
slagging off.

Simon Atkinson wrote:
: "Phil.L" wrote in message
: ...
:: Simon Atkinson wrote:
::: "Phil.L" wrote in message
::: ...
:::: Laffinkitten wrote:
::::: what''s wrong with virtual fishing?
::::
:::: nothing, and i never implied there was.
:::: but as compared to the real thing its no substitute.
::::
::::
::: but as a tool for searching out features such as snags and the make
::: up of the bed I can see the use of it, no dragging a lead covered in
::: weed spooking fish, it would be a visible marker on the surface so
::: you will know exactly the location of the features and if you fish
::: some of the smaller older pools not the usual gravel pits there are
::: often submerged trees etc where a lead snags and often has to be
::: pulled for a break you could accurately find the areas where you
::: could fish safely.
::
:: they may have a small amount of fans who've just forked out a
:: fortune to buy them, but they wont become commonplace, simply
:: because a lot of anglers (most in my opinion) fish the same places
:: time and again, and once they 'know' what the water is like, maybe
:: after one or two uses, it will be left in the shed, or in the small
:: ads in the local rag for a fiver.
::
: I agree most anglers fish the same lakes, the same swims in the same
: lakes, to the same feature in the same swims in the same lakes or
: three rods fanned out cast as far as possible in the same swims in
: the same lakes (getting repetative but the point is there)
::
:::
so would you use a gadget on every visit?
obviously not, maybe on new waters, but even in this case, theres nothing
can match local angling knowledge - ask someone!


::: I know we are talking gadgets here but I've seen pole fishers use
::: fish finders and I'm sure once people scoffed at bite alarms when
::: swing tips were satisfactory.
::
:: swing tips are still satisfactory, as are baitrunners without
:: alarms, and for that matter an old washing-up liquid bottle top.
:: they all do the same thing, IE, let you know you've got a bite, the
:: only thing they dont do is let everyone else know youve got a bite.
:
: you missed out a piece of foil twisted around the line next to the
: reel.

and the obvious bite indicator - the humble float.
:
:: That said, bite alarms are a bonus for night fishing, but other than
:: that, they fall nicely into the 'useless gadget' dept.
::
::: Even the guy who reviewed it for the AT (who
::: I suggest is a competent angler) found a couple of fish holding
::: features on his local river that he did not know before, it is just
::: a tool, a aid to fishing and as a tool I can see a swim being mapped
::: out quicker and easier allowing more time to fish.
::
:: i wouldnt read too much into ATs reviews, as i've been getting it
:: for years and i've yet to read a bad one.
:: They get paid a lot of money for 'reviewing' new products and almost
:: always give the product in question a brilliant write up, then when
:: you buy it, it turns out to be a pile of crap.
::
::
::
: Is it me or does any one else find some of the posts a little bit
: cynical? In stead of looking for good points people seem to be too
: interested in slagging off.

if you're not prepared to accept the opinions you asked for, feel free to
ignore them.

maybe when you've been an angler for a long time, and you've seen all kinds
of bait, tackle, reels etc launched in a blaze of publicity, bought them,
thrown them away, and gone back to tried and trusted methods which have been
used for decades, you may become a bit cynical too!

Simon wrote:

you missed out a piece of foil twisted around the line next to the reel



Hmmmmmmmmm. I have fished off and on over the last 35 years. Recently got
into carp and bought sensibly priced gear (still cost more than 3/6). I
have caught some nice fish but my 2 best carp were before I bought the gear:

1. Ledgering using a 9' split cane rod (30 years old) with silver foil as
indicator.
2. Surface with hook and bread flake.

Both traditional and modern methods have their place but I can empathize
with the comments supporting the traditional methods. I do believe bait
boats and fish finders are going OTT. You can't beat a worm at the end of a
rusty safety pin ;-)

Just my 5 cents.

--
Georgie
"Simon Atkinson" wrote in message
...

"Phil.L" wrote in message
...
Simon Atkinson wrote:
: "Phil.L" wrote in message
: ...
:: Laffinkitten wrote:
::: what''s wrong with virtual fishing?
::
:: nothing, and i never implied there was.
:: but as compared to the real thing its no substitute.
::
::
: but as a tool for searching out features such as snags and the make
: up of the bed I can see the use of it, no dragging a lead covered in
: weed spooking fish, it would be a visible marker on the surface so
: you will know exactly the location of the features and if you fish
: some of the smaller older pools not the usual gravel pits there are
: often submerged trees etc where a lead snags and often has to be
: pulled for a break you could accurately find the areas where you
: could fish safely.

they may have a small amount of fans who've just forked out a fortune to
buy
them, but they wont become commonplace, simply because a lot of anglers
(most in my opinion) fish the same places time and again, and once they
'know' what the water is like, maybe after one or two uses, it will be
left
in the shed, or in the small ads in the local rag for a fiver.

I agree most anglers fish the same lakes, the same swims in the same
lakes,
to the same feature in the same swims in the same lakes or three rods
fanned
out cast as far as possible in the same swims in the same lakes (getting
repetative but the point is there)

:
: I know we are talking gadgets here but I've seen pole fishers use fish
: finders and I'm sure once people scoffed at bite alarms when swing
: tips were satisfactory.

swing tips are still satisfactory, as are baitrunners without alarms,
and
for that matter an old washing-up liquid bottle top.
they all do the same thing, IE, let you know you've got a bite, the only
thing they dont do is let everyone else know youve got a bite.

you missed out a piece of foil twisted around the line next to the reel

That said, bite alarms are a bonus for night fishing, but other than
that,
they fall nicely into the 'useless gadget' dept.

: Even the guy who reviewed it for the AT (who
: I suggest is a competent angler) found a couple of fish holding
: features on his local river that he did not know before, it is just a
: tool, a aid to fishing and as a tool I can see a swim being mapped
: out quicker and easier allowing more time to fish.

i wouldnt read too much into ATs reviews, as i've been getting it for
years
and i've yet to read a bad one.
They get paid a lot of money for 'reviewing' new products and almost
always
give the product in question a brilliant write up, then when you buy it,
it
turns out to be a pile of crap.



Is it me or does any one else find some of the posts a little bit cynical?
In stead of looking for good points people seem to be too interested in
slagging off.

: Is it me or does any one else find some of the posts a little bit
: cynical? In stead of looking for good points people seem to be too
: interested in slagging off.

if you're not prepared to accept the opinions you asked for, feel free to
ignore them.

maybe when you've been an angler for a long time, and you've seen all
kinds
of bait, tackle, reels etc launched in a blaze of publicity, bought them,
thrown them away, and gone back to tried and trusted methods which have
been
used for decades, you may become a bit cynical too!


oooh!!!!!!!
just a lad me only thirty odd years fishing under the belt, never really
gone out and bought the latest gear though, nothing I like more that fishing
the waggler, even made my own, sometimes nothing pleases me more than just
watching the fish, I just thought that seeing a fish feed on free offerings
and approaching the bait might be informative as well as add an extra
dimension to fishing, not that I would do more that a couple of times as I
do enjoy the anticipation of watching the quill bob and weave then sink or
sail away attached to my chosen quarry (hopefully) so please do not assume
other people are ignorant or uneducated in their views -it's rude-

also there was a view that when fish finders first became widely available
(decades ago) there was an opinion that the signal from the transducer could
be picked up by the fish and that they would learn that it was a danger
signal so any continual or persistent use would be detrimental to fishing.

all irrelevant parts of this post have been deleted as the string is getting
too long

: Is it me or does any one else find some of the posts a little bit
: cynical? In stead of looking for good points people seem to be too
: interested in slagging off.

if you're not prepared to accept the opinions you asked for, feel free to
ignore them.

maybe when you've been an angler for a long time, and you've seen all
kinds
of bait, tackle, reels etc launched in a blaze of publicity, bought them,
thrown them away, and gone back to tried and trusted methods which have
been
used for decades, you may become a bit cynical too!


oooh!!!!!!!
just a lad me only thirty odd years fishing under the belt, never really
gone out and bought the latest gear though, nothing I like more that fishing
the waggler, even made my own, sometimes nothing pleases me more than just
watching the fish, I just thought that seeing a fish feed on free offerings
and approaching the bait might be informative as well as add an extra
dimension to fishing, not that I would do more that a couple of times as I
do enjoy the anticipation of watching the quill bob and weave then sink or
sail away attached to my chosen quarry (hopefully) so please do not assume
other people are ignorant or uneducated in their views -it's rude-

also there was a view that when fish finders first became widely available
(decades ago) there was an opinion that the signal from the transducer could
be picked up by the fish and that they would learn that it was a danger
signal so any continual or persistent use would be detrimental to fishing.

all irrelevant parts of this post have been deleted as the string is getting
too long

: Is it me or does any one else find some of the posts a little bit
: cynical? In stead of looking for good points people seem to be too
: interested in slagging off.

if you're not prepared to accept the opinions you asked for, feel free to
ignore them.

maybe when you've been an angler for a long time, and you've seen all
kinds
of bait, tackle, reels etc launched in a blaze of publicity, bought them,
thrown them away, and gone back to tried and trusted methods which have
been
used for decades, you may become a bit cynical too!


oooh!!!!!!!
just a lad me only thirty odd years fishing under the belt, never really
gone out and bought the latest gear though, nothing I like more that fishing
the waggler, even made my own, sometimes nothing pleases me more than just
watching the fish, I just thought that seeing a fish feed on free offerings
and approaching the bait might be informative as well as add an extra
dimension to fishing, not that I would do more that a couple of times as I
do enjoy the anticipation of watching the quill bob and weave then sink or
sail away attached to my chosen quarry (hopefully) so please do not assume
other people are ignorant or uneducated in their views -it's rude-

also there was a view that when fish finders first became widely available
(decades ago) there was an opinion that the signal from the transducer could
be picked up by the fish and that they would learn that it was a danger
signal so any continual or persistent use would be detrimental to fishing.

all irrelevant parts of this post have been deleted as the string is getting
too long

Well looks like all the fun is going out of this sport ..I'm of to the Army
/Navy store for a submarine and a anti tank gun ....and I bet I still wont
break the 10 pound barrier anyone want to buy a old fashioned rod an reel
....lol


"Georgina" wrote in message
...
Simon wrote:

you missed out a piece of foil twisted around the line next to the reel



Hmmmmmmmmm. I have fished off and on over the last 35 years. Recently
got
into carp and bought sensibly priced gear (still cost more than 3/6). I
have caught some nice fish but my 2 best carp were before I bought the
gear:

1. Ledgering using a 9' split cane rod (30 years old) with silver foil
as
indicator.
2. Surface with hook and bread flake.

Both traditional and modern methods have their place but I can empathize
with the comments supporting the traditional methods. I do believe bait
boats and fish finders are going OTT. You can't beat a worm at the end of
a
rusty safety pin ;-)

Just my 5 cents.

--
Georgie
"Simon Atkinson" wrote in message
...

"Phil.L" wrote in message
...
Simon Atkinson wrote:
: "Phil.L" wrote in message
: ...
:: Laffinkitten wrote:
::: what''s wrong with virtual fishing?
::
:: nothing, and i never implied there was.
:: but as compared to the real thing its no substitute.
::
::
: but as a tool for searching out features such as snags and the make
: up of the bed I can see the use of it, no dragging a lead covered in
: weed spooking fish, it would be a visible marker on the surface so
: you will know exactly the location of the features and if you fish
: some of the smaller older pools not the usual gravel pits there are
: often submerged trees etc where a lead snags and often has to be
: pulled for a break you could accurately find the areas where you
: could fish safely.

they may have a small amount of fans who've just forked out a fortune
to
buy
them, but they wont become commonplace, simply because a lot of
anglers
(most in my opinion) fish the same places time and again, and once
they
'know' what the water is like, maybe after one or two uses, it will be
left
in the shed, or in the small ads in the local rag for a fiver.

I agree most anglers fish the same lakes, the same swims in the same
lakes,
to the same feature in the same swims in the same lakes or three rods
fanned
out cast as far as possible in the same swims in the same lakes (getting
repetative but the point is there)

:
: I know we are talking gadgets here but I've seen pole fishers use
fish
: finders and I'm sure once people scoffed at bite alarms when swing
: tips were satisfactory.

swing tips are still satisfactory, as are baitrunners without alarms,
and
for that matter an old washing-up liquid bottle top.
they all do the same thing, IE, let you know you've got a bite, the
only
thing they dont do is let everyone else know youve got a bite.

you missed out a piece of foil twisted around the line next to the reel

That said, bite alarms are a bonus for night fishing, but other than
that,
they fall nicely into the 'useless gadget' dept.

: Even the guy who reviewed it for the AT (who
: I suggest is a competent angler) found a couple of fish holding
: features on his local river that he did not know before, it is just
a
: tool, a aid to fishing and as a tool I can see a swim being mapped
: out quicker and easier allowing more time to fish.

i wouldnt read too much into ATs reviews, as i've been getting it for
years
and i've yet to read a bad one.
They get paid a lot of money for 'reviewing' new products and almost
always
give the product in question a brilliant write up, then when you buy
it,
it
turns out to be a pile of crap.



Is it me or does any one else find some of the posts a little bit
cynical?
In stead of looking for good points people seem to be too interested in
slagging off.

"Michael" wrote in message
...
Well looks like all the fun is going out of this sport

FOR SALE/SWAP.
'Vigilante' Specimen-Pro electronic bite alarm (with handy Snooze-button
feature).
25p o.n.o.

Full set of camouflage clothing (jacket, trousers & hat).
Swap for similar in grey. Hey! If it works for Herons ......

Ronco All-in-one anglers outfit (rod, reel, hooks, weights, line, umbrella,
keep & landing nets). Fits in your top pocket.
Christmas present bought for me by deranged wife.
£5 o.n.o. and I'll throw in the Ronco for free.

Simon Atkinson wrote:
::: Is it me or does any one else find some of the posts a little bit
::: cynical? In stead of looking for good points people seem to be too
::: interested in slagging off.
::
:: if you're not prepared to accept the opinions you asked for, feel
:: free to ignore them.
::
:: maybe when you've been an angler for a long time, and you've seen
:: all kinds of bait, tackle, reels etc launched in a blaze of
:: publicity, bought them, thrown them away, and gone back to tried and
:: trusted methods which have been used for decades, you may become a
:: bit cynical too!
::
::
: oooh!!!!!!!
: just a lad me only thirty odd years fishing under the belt, never
: really gone out and bought the latest gear though, nothing I like
: more that fishing the waggler, even made my own, sometimes nothing
: pleases me more than just watching the fish, I just thought that
: seeing a fish feed on free offerings and approaching the bait might
: be informative as well as add an extra dimension to fishing, not that
: I would do more that a couple of times as I do enjoy the anticipation
: of watching the quill bob and weave then sink or sail away attached
: to my chosen quarry (hopefully) so please do not assume other people
: are ignorant or uneducated in their views -it's rude-

i never implied you were uneducated nor ignorant, i simply pointed out that
you asked for views concerning this bit of kit (£188 BTW) and i offered an
opinion, which you then said was cynical.

:
: also there was a view that when fish finders first became widely
: available (decades ago) there was an opinion that the signal from the
: transducer could be picked up by the fish and that they would learn
: that it was a danger signal so any continual or persistent use would
: be detrimental to fishing.

to be honest, i've seen more 'new fangled tackle' fall by the wayside and
get largely ignored by the angling fraternity, than what has been adopted as
a good idea.

some good ideas:

baitrunner reels.
bedchairs.
ultra thin fishing lines.
extra strong hooks.
good quality poles and accessories.
baitneedles.

bad ideas:

plastic fake baits, esp bread which is a quid a ton for the real stuff.
fishfinders.
baitboats. for 99% of cases they are unnessecary.
silicon everlasting boilies - i mean, why?
+ everything else thats had rave reveiws in AT for the past decade and half,
but you never see in any tackle shops.

same as you've just said, theres nothing better than the simples forms of
fishing (waggler in your case) and i enjoy stalking wary carp in the
margins, with nothing more than a handful of expander pellets, a few slices
of hovis, and just a hook and rod.
the more complicated things become tacklewise, the less chance you have of
catching fish.

JM2P