Question about loop leaders?

rw wrote:

Warren wrote:

Dave, thanks again for getting me to Penn's. I will *always* be
grateful for you doing what you did and the thought of your deeds
being blasted in this forum really gives me a case of the red ass.


In that case, you shouldn't have bitched about it in earshot of a
half-dozen people.'


That was an "off ROFF" personal conversation like you pointed out to me
about a post I made that mentioned you.

Willi

Charlie Choc wrote:

On 17 Oct 2004 22:17:10 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse) wrote:

Never said I saw someone standing in the same place all day. I did see two
guys standing at the head of the KH nymphing *down-stream*, and if you can't
figure out what they were doing, well......

And there are people that spin fish there too. Who cares??? As long as
they weren't shuffling, there's nothing illegal about fishing
downstream. I fish dries downstream quite a bit of the time on the
Juan. On some water types, that's the best way to make a good
presentation.

You don't like it, don't do it.

Willi

Charlie Choc wrote:

On 17 Oct 2004 22:17:10 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse) wrote:

Never said I saw someone standing in the same place all day. I did see two
guys standing at the head of the KH nymphing *down-stream*, and if you can't
figure out what they were doing, well......

And there are people that spin fish there too. Who cares??? As long as
they weren't shuffling, there's nothing illegal about fishing
downstream. I fish dries downstream quite a bit of the time on the
Juan. On some water types, that's the best way to make a good
presentation.

You don't like it, don't do it.

Willi

Charlie Choc wrote:

On 17 Oct 2004 22:17:10 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse) wrote:

The SJ isn't my favorite type of place to fish, but it wasn't as big a circus
as the hyperbole of you and those "of your ilk" had led me to believe it might
be.


In the Winter, much of that circus atmosphere is gone. We've had days
when our group had the river to ourselves.

Willi

Dave LaCourse wrote:


I never returned to the SJ because of the conditions. I have fished other
tailwaters and never saw the beat up fish that the SJ contains. I fished the
Big Horn and never caught a fish with lip sores or so defeated that it couldn't
fight.


What you saw is nothing unique. Fertile rivers that are heavily fished
will have fish setup below wading anglers. Some of the places I've seen
that are the Yellowstone in the Park, the Green, the Bighorn, the North
Platte, the South Platte etc. (Although Charlie may say they can't learn
- joke Charlie) fish are smart enough to make the association over time
that wading fishermen mean food.

Every heavily fished C&R water is going to have "scarred" up fish. The
more pressure and angler success, the more common this is. On all the
rivers I mentioned above, I've caught fish that had "scars" from being
hooked before (yes even the BIGHORN). On many heavily fished C&R rivers
the average fish is caught several times a season. Being hooked causes
some damage even from the most careful angler and from careless anglers????

Willi

Dave LaCourse wrote:


I never returned to the SJ because of the conditions. I have fished other
tailwaters and never saw the beat up fish that the SJ contains. I fished the
Big Horn and never caught a fish with lip sores or so defeated that it couldn't
fight.


What you saw is nothing unique. Fertile rivers that are heavily fished
will have fish setup below wading anglers. Some of the places I've seen
that are the Yellowstone in the Park, the Green, the Bighorn, the North
Platte, the South Platte etc. (Although Charlie may say they can't learn
- joke Charlie) fish are smart enough to make the association over time
that wading fishermen mean food.

Every heavily fished C&R water is going to have "scarred" up fish. The
more pressure and angler success, the more common this is. On all the
rivers I mentioned above, I've caught fish that had "scars" from being
hooked before (yes even the BIGHORN). On many heavily fished C&R rivers
the average fish is caught several times a season. Being hooked causes
some damage even from the most careful angler and from careless anglers????

Willi

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 07:28:54 -0600, Willi & Sue wrote:

In the Winter, much of that circus atmosphere is gone. We've had days
when our group had the river to ourselves.

Assuming Delta keeps flying I'll be there in January. If nothing else, it will
be interesting to watch you and Bruce fish it.
--
Charlie...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 07:28:54 -0600, Willi & Sue wrote:

In the Winter, much of that circus atmosphere is gone. We've had days
when our group had the river to ourselves.

Assuming Delta keeps flying I'll be there in January. If nothing else, it will
be interesting to watch you and Bruce fish it.
--
Charlie...

riverman wrote:

... For them who know the Juan, catching footballs there is
apparently trivial, as folks tell tales of hundreds of fish a day. I saw
some absolute newbies under the tutelage of a guide hauling out big fish
with every drift. It was humilating, but then again, what did *they* learn,
except how to catch fish on the Juan?

Why would other people catching fish humiliate YOU ? I don't get it.
And they learned more than how to catch fish on the Juan. They learned
how to fish microscopic nymphs.

However, not knowing that you needed submicroscopic nymphs, where the 'hot
spots' were, what the local technique was, or where the 'better' fish were
merely meant that I had a great day fishing and figuring it out for myself,
which is what I like best about fishing. Personally, I hate things that
become 'popular' because all sorts of stupid artificial rules start coming
in. Suddenly, certain gear is de rigeur, other gear is 'square' or 'old
fashioned'. Even in the non fishing world, I hate that ****. Gotta have the
right shoes, the right haircut, the right car, gotta live in the right
neighborhood. Hey, its still rock-and-roll to me, I'd rather live my own
life.

Well, that's a nice enough rant but I think you're conflating totally
different things. I like to hire a guide the first time I visit new
waters, especially if I'm going to be there for a few days. And even
if I don't hire a guide I'll visit a local flyshop to buy a few flies
and chat up the locals trying to discover what's what. Now how that
gets conflated with having to have an Eddie Bauer Edition Ford Explorer
escapes me.

--
Ken Fortenberry

riverman wrote:

... For them who know the Juan, catching footballs there is
apparently trivial, as folks tell tales of hundreds of fish a day. I saw
some absolute newbies under the tutelage of a guide hauling out big fish
with every drift. It was humilating, but then again, what did *they* learn,
except how to catch fish on the Juan?

Why would other people catching fish humiliate YOU ? I don't get it.
And they learned more than how to catch fish on the Juan. They learned
how to fish microscopic nymphs.

However, not knowing that you needed submicroscopic nymphs, where the 'hot
spots' were, what the local technique was, or where the 'better' fish were
merely meant that I had a great day fishing and figuring it out for myself,
which is what I like best about fishing. Personally, I hate things that
become 'popular' because all sorts of stupid artificial rules start coming
in. Suddenly, certain gear is de rigeur, other gear is 'square' or 'old
fashioned'. Even in the non fishing world, I hate that ****. Gotta have the
right shoes, the right haircut, the right car, gotta live in the right
neighborhood. Hey, its still rock-and-roll to me, I'd rather live my own
life.

Well, that's a nice enough rant but I think you're conflating totally
different things. I like to hire a guide the first time I visit new
waters, especially if I'm going to be there for a few days. And even
if I don't hire a guide I'll visit a local flyshop to buy a few flies
and chat up the locals trying to discover what's what. Now how that
gets conflated with having to have an Eddie Bauer Edition Ford Explorer
escapes me.

--
Ken Fortenberry