Website

On Aug 31, 7:47 am, wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:54:58 -0700, rw
wrote:





wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:50:07 -0700, rw
wrote:

wrote:

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:43:41 -0700, rw
wrote:

wrote:

If the car in question runs without combustion issues on "regular," the
only thing one ____might____ get from using a slightly higher octane
rating is marginally quicker acceleration of the car and a
proportionally higher acceleration of cash outflow...

Fuel mileage will be different.

I can run my Subaru Turbo Outback just fine on regular (premium is
recommended), but the mileage (miles/gal) is less. As close as I can
tell, it's just about as economical to run it with premium, but if a
rider thoughtfully filled it with regular I wouldn't mind one bit.

Good lord - an Outback has a turbo'ed V8?!?! Either I'm wrong about
what I think the Outback is, size-wise, or the pistons must be the size
of US half-dollars. But IAC, you shouldn't see a noticeable MPG
difference, all other factors equal

So who am I going to believe? You or my own eyes? Especially considering
that you're nearly always wrong about everything.

I really don't care what you believe, but if you believe that the
"octane rating" is a measure of "power," you're wrong.

I know perfectly well what an octane rating is. It's true that using
premium gasoline in a car designed for regular is a waste of money. What
you seem not to understand is that turbocharged engines (and in
particular the one in my car) are designed for premium gasoline, and
they do not run as efficiently on regular gasoline.

Unless the design is poor, turbocharged engines are not "designed for
premium gasoline." In fact, most turbocharged engines aren't designed
for _any_ gasoline, they are designed for diesel. OTOH, a
non-normally-aspirated gasoline engine (turbo'ed or
"blown"/supercharged) does generally require higher octane _under the
same conditions_ than the same engine normally aspirated; however,
"higher octane" does not translate into "premium" required. IAC, most
"production" cars with gasoline turbo'ed engines have lower compression
ratios than the non-turbo'ed versions, and moreover, no engine designer
worth a damn would set out to design an engine for such a car with the
goal of the highest possible octane requirement. If the absolute
minimum octane _required_ under the best possible (octane-wise)
conditions (i.e., a new engine in a cold, low humidity climate at high
altitude) for a particular vehicle was "premium," it would be an all but
useless vehicle to the general US public.

BTW, it's not a V8. I never said it was.

Fair enough.



Also BTW, premium gasoline is also strongly recommended for my
motorcycle, but that's because it has a pretty high compression ratio
(9.7:1).

FWIW, the compression ratio isn't the only reason, but a bike engine
ain't a car engine. Here's a hint - what's redline on your bike vs.
your car? Here's another - look at the "power band" on both.

TC,
R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

'Unless the design is poor, turbocharged engines are not "designed
for
premium gasoline."
Modern engines (normally aspirated, supercharged or turbo-charged )
are designed not to knock and will run on the available ranges of
octane. They have detonation sensors ( little microphones ) that
listen for the ping and then retard the spark to the point that pre-
ignition doesn't occur.
When cars had real distributors and all you could get was low octane
gas you had to retard the spark by turning the distributor to retard
the spark.
The first cars to have ping detectors were I believe GMs in the 60s
May have been the Olds F-85. An aluminum block, turbo charged engine
with a 9.5: 1 compression ration needed something or you had to gas
them up at the airport.

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:40:46 -0700, rw
wrote:

I'm done. You obviously aren't interested doing anything but arguing,
and I'm not interested in that.

Oh?

Aside from interminable and futile attempts to impress
somebody.....ANYBODY.....it's the only thing you've ever shown any interest
in here.

Wolfgang
who can't help but think that people who invariably lie poorly should give
some thought to the advisability of lying often.

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:27:27 -0500, "Wolfgang"
wrote:

Yep. Makes the mass murder of small children look like......well, child's
play......by comparison.

I have never killed anyone,

Just one more in a lifetime of disappointments, eh?

Junior.

I thought I was "Senior."

Moron.

Wolfgang

"Tom Littleton" wrote in message
news:QdJBi.3013$2p5.2984@trndny05...

"JR" wrote in message
...




with these headers popping up in a quote, you know the
thread has potential.......

I wonder if I am the only roffian dreading the day when this
thread ends and there is nothing left to live for....

g
I know we've had a few minor moments at the Penn's thing, but from certain
snippets, that Fall Ball should have
been videotaped, in it's entirety.......I'm shocked that gunplay didn't
erupt.g

Life must be easy, I suppose, for those eternally above the fray.

Wolfgang
who, nevertheless, prefers to be a participant in something rather than a
perennial unwilling spectator.

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:28:43 -0500, "Wolfgang"
wrote:

So, somebody took my hundred dollars? Well, which cheap ******* do you
suppose did that?

If you went to the lobster night the week that Warren Findley was at
Penns Clave,

If memory serves, I was there.

and you had a free beer,

Possible, but not highly likely. As I recall, there were pitchers of draft
beer (Yuengling, presumably) on the tables, but I'm not a big fan of such.
I prefer bottled beer for reasons I won't bore anyone with unless asked
explicitly. At any rate, since we're concerned in this discussion about
matters like reciprocity and paying one's way, I haven't kept score over the
years that I've been fishing with various of the people who post to this
newsgroup. That said, I have certainly been generously treated by many
here, and often by some of them. Despite the onus implied by such behavior,
no one has yet expressed the sentiment that I have been remiss in gratitude
or in contribution. Yet another kindness to be thankful for.

it was my money,

Yes, we know all about your money.....we hear about it so often.

left over from
the difference between what Zimmerman's flyrod brought, and the cost
of getting Warren to the clave. If you did not have a free beer,
well, tough ****, Junior.

I thought I was "Senior."

You're entire life is one of a loser, so
how can you expect to get a free beer? Wot? d;o)

I don't expect free beer. Never have. Welfare is not my style.

Wolfgang

Tom Nakashima typed:
Geeze guys, about these wonderful claves I've been hearing about...
do you exchange xmas cards too?

With some, yes. With others, just an email now and again to keep in touch.
The only danger in going to these "wonderful claves" is that you might meet
someone you don't like. The same danger lies in wait by going to the park, a
concert, a dinner, the shopping market, or even fishing and running into
strangers along the river. The greater danger is *not* going and missing out
on meeting some really nice people.
--
TL,
Tim
-------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

"jeff" wrote in message
...
Tom Nakashima wrote:
Geeze guys, about these wonderful claves I've been hearing about...
do you exchange xmas cards too?
-tom

it's odd...i reckon i've grown too accustomed or numbed to the anger and
icy emotion spewed by couples who once purported to love one another to be
overly troubled by the writings of folks here. despite the acrimony that
oozes about, at the various gatherings i've attended, i've been the
beneficiary of kindness, humor, wisdom, and generosity. also, i've
noticed something in each person i've met at the roff claves which i have
admired, enjoyed, and appreciated. i'm not blind to human foibles and
failings...probably because of the bottomless abyss holding my own...but,
whatever others might think about the current tone of this place, i'm
forever grateful for having stumbled into it and for the folks who have
shared a bit of themselves with (or who have patiently and quietly
tolerated) me.

...and...uh, if cards are being sent, well...no one told me.

i suspect Tom, as in most other pursuits, if you attended one of the
claves, you'd find some folks with whom you'd have common ground and some
with whom you wouldn't. so far, i've not regreted a single adventure with
and amongst folks from this newsgroup.

Ditto all that......every bit of it. But I'd like to add that there is also
a real value to be derived by observing and even participating in those
aspects of the interplay here that many find so discomfiting.....and even
repugnant. Generally speaking, people are never so revealing of themselves
as when they enjoy a certain level of anonymity and/or physical remove.
Even among those who know one another through personal contact it is, as has
often been remarked here, easier to say some things within the confines of
this medium than it is in face to face exchanges. Many people, whose long
suit is not critical analysis, (and who are frequently guilty of what they
accuse others of.....else why should we believe them?) impute the difference
to cowardice. Sometimes true, no doubt, but an occasional lucky guess need
not be taken as an indication that they should ever be taken seriously.
Meanwhile, those paying attention and capable of winnowing anything of worth
from a large load of raw information may learn something about the character
of the people with whom they interact.......even something important. It's
still easy enough (for most of us and most of the time, anyway, I presume)
to be civil in person. But it's always good to have an idea of who it is
you've been dealing with and, more importantly perhaps, who you are about
to.

Wolfgang