Scottish Fly Fisher on MSN

"Mike Connor" wrote in message news:dhem1a$32p$02

Some gulls have also been observed to have completely modified their
feeding
areas and behaviour, now coming inland and feeding almost exclusively on
rubbish tips and in similar areas. Huge flocks of these birds can now be
observed in such places.


Mike, In bangalore, southern India, there are thousands of kites (brahminny
and pariah kites) that soar around allover the city. When I 1st went there,
I couldn't believe how many birds of prey I was seeing; it was amazing, I
was taking piks all the time! I later found out from a birdwatching
enthuisiast from south of bangalore, that the kites are more or less city
scavengers "similar to your gulls", he told me. He also told me that back
home in England 100 years ago, we had loads of city kites too, but we
persecuted them, and the gulls later filled the vacuum.

"rw" wrote in message
ink.net...
rw wrote:

Scott Seidman wrote:


Great Lakes Cormorant management is an absolute nightmare. I've heard
the NY DEC speak on this a number of times. They have federal
permission for lethal management, but conservation groups keep
preventing it through legal action. The DEC's main tool is egg oiling.


Sheesh! If it were Idaho there'd be a 20-bird bag limit on cormorants.
Hell, we have a hunting season for Sandhill Cranes.

I've never seen a cormorant in Idaho, and God help the first one that
shows up.

Sorry to reply to my own post, but:

I Googled Idaho cormorant. There's one species, the double-crested
cormorant, that is native and very distinct, but I've never seen one. It's
designated non-game protected species.

If any non-double-crested cormorants show up, they should say their
prayers. :-)

Think of them as wolves in pursuit of dogs.........it makes it easier to
squeeeeze.......

Wolfgang

Mike,

It isn't so in all of Europe, as it is till pretty cheap, clean and
wild in all of the Scandinavian countries, and from the size of those
countries, and with regard to their low population,I still feel that
there's hope. I do however share your concern about overfishing,
especially in the sea. The sad thing is that scientists have been
warning about possible collapsing populations of fish, like for example
cod, and still the politicians seem to listen only to the fishing
industry. Then again, why am I surprised? Have yet to meet with a
politician who cares more about what's actually going on than his or
hers own career and wallet.

On another note, I'd like to see Scotland one day, not necessarily
because of the fishing but still, it looks like a nice place (and they
do produce a certain liquid that I find interesting).

/Roger

schrieb im Newsbeitrag
oups.com...
SNIP
On another note, I'd like to see Scotland one day, not necessarily
because of the fishing but still, it looks like a nice place (and they
do produce a certain liquid that I find interesting).

/Roger


There is still "SOME" good cheap fishing in the Scandinavian countries, but
they are also suffering badly from various problems. Salmon and seatrout
fishing has declined rapidly in recent years, and the price has also gone up
very considerably in many places.

Scotland is indeed a very nice play to visit. Hope you make it!

TL
MC

Mike,

As I said, the fishing industry is doing some serious damage to our sea
fish. on the other hand, grayling, brown trout and arctic char have all
been improving the last few years. So I guess it is not all bad. And as
you say, the salmon and sea trout fishing has strangely become a bit
more costly when the salmon have become less ususal.
I hope that someone with a bit of power does something about the
insanity that goes on in our sea, and that soon.

/Roger

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:48:15 -0500, "Wolfgang"
wrote:


"Scottish Fly Fisher" wrote in message
.. .
...The cormorant problem is not only a result of overfishing at sea, but
because the birds are protected. Populations have increased massively
since
these birds were placed under protection.....

...If only the could adapt like the gulls, and live off land-fills and by
mugging the occasional drunk for their kebab. :-)

I don't recall ever seeing a cormorant when I was a boy growing up on the
shore of Lake Michigan. As far as I knew, even many years later when I
developed an interest in birds, they were strictly marine birds. As a
matter of fact, I still don't know whether they are considered native on the
Great Lakes. I first started noticing them (much to my excited pleasure)
maybe 15 or 20 years ago. These days it's nearly impossible to spend any
time on the beaches or the lake without seeing many of them, and their
numbers seem to be increasing steadily.

Presumably, they are also protected here as they are not considered to be
either game birds or pests......not yet, anyway.....and protected is the
default status for anything not covered by the other two categories. Not
that protected status makes much difference, I suppose. Nobody seems to be
much interested in shooting them; the days of widespread shooting of
anything that moves are pretty much gone around here.

Interesting that they are burgeoning both here and there. One wonders
whether the same sorts of dynamics are at work.....and what they might be.

Also interesting.....and disturbing.....is the fact that the populations of
gulls (primarily herring gulls and ring-billed gulls) have also been
increasing at an alarming rate, much to the detriment of many of the shore
birds from what I've heard. I haven't researched the matter, so I don't
really know what's behind this rise either, but I do know that it has a lot
of wildlife scientists and managers very concerned.

And then, just about a month ago, I saw my first ever Lake Michigan
pelican....a brown pelican. Not sure that the existence of a pelican here
means anything, but watching all the changes that have taken place in the
past 50 years or so is very unsettling. The Great Lakes ecology is reeling
from one serious blow after another, with no end in sight.


Same depressing story all over, eh? At least we don't have pelicans in
Scotland!

The trouble that we have with cormorants is they are effective
predators, they are greedy and they prey upon the fish that are the
bread and butter of most game fishers... i.e. fish between 8 oz and
2lbs.

I seriously hope you don't end up with the same problem. Here's a link
you might find interesting and alarming! Loch Leven was once world
famous, (then some silly bugger thought it would be a good idea to
stock it with rainbows.) It highlights the problems these birds cause
on Scottish waters rather well. (The relevant paragraph is about half
way down page 4.)

http://www.lochlevenfisheries.co.uk/...TEGY%20DOC.pdf

John
http://groups.msn.com/scottishflyfisher
Responsible anglers catch and release.
Lose the barbs or lose the fish!

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:57:26 +0200, "Mike Connor"
wrote:


"Scottish Fly Fisher" schrieb im
Newsbeitrag ...
On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:11:59 +0200, "Mike Connor"
wrote:

I could be wrong, but isn't the fish food made from the wastage... the
stuff that people don't eat? I could be wrong here, but does the
production of fish food pellets make a significant difference to the
amount of fish that are hoovered up from the sea?


No, unfortunately, practically all fish farming, including the breeding and
raising of triploid rainbows and other fish, especially salmonids, not to
mention very large numbers of crustaceans and similar, depends entirely on
large amounts of wild protein which is obtained from the high seas, and then
processed very wastefully.

Do a google search on the consumption of wild protein pellets, ( and there
are no viable substitutes) in the UK alone. A very large proportion of this
is used for fish farming, although there are a number of other uses,
including cattle feed, chicken feed ( which is why the boiled eggs stink of
fish!), and fertiliser.

If you check global figures, which are increasing very rapidly, then you
will be even more shocked. Fish farming is increasing rapidly, but the wild
protein consumption is alsready far beyond the capacity of the oceans to
replace it, quite apart from the resultant food chain destruction, and all
the other severe collateral damage.

OK... that's it... I'm cracking open the tequila!

John
http://groups.msn.com/scottishflyfisher
Responsible anglers catch and release.
Lose the barbs or lose the fish!

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 22:34:20 GMT, rw
wrote:

Scott Seidman wrote:

Great Lakes Cormorant management is an absolute nightmare. I've heard the
NY DEC speak on this a number of times. They have federal permission for
lethal management, but conservation groups keep preventing it through legal
action. The DEC's main tool is egg oiling.

Sheesh! If it were Idaho there'd be a 20-bird bag limit on cormorants.
Hell, we have a hunting season for Sandhill Cranes.

I've never seen a cormorant in Idaho, and God help the first one that
shows up.

Pray that they don't!

John
http://groups.msn.com/scottishflyfisher
Responsible anglers catch and release.
Lose the barbs or lose the fish!

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:43:36 +0100, "MichaelM"
wrote:


"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

"Wolfgang" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
SNIP
Interesting that they are burgeoning both here and there. One wonders
whether the same sorts of dynamics are at work.....and what they might
be.

SNIP

Ongoing and well founded research suggests that the dynamics are much the
same. The single main cause being the massive overfishing of food chain
items. Large areas of ocean around the Americas are now almost devoid of
life, forcing birds and other predators to seek alternatives. These
alternatives are of course also slowly, or even rapidly eroded, as the
birds
then increase to beyond what the resource can bear, and then go into sharp
decline, but only after much damage and destruction has taken place.


White egrets are establishing very well on Norfolk ATM ~ don't know what
they are displacing, as the herons are still ther in number. Maybe there's
more amphibians / small fish?. We are regularly catching triggerfish on
south coast shores too.

Poor old polar bears are going to have to turn back to being brown or else
become extinct the way things are going with the environment / sun / nature.


That's the thing... as ecosystems get messed up, species adapt, if
they can. Then man takes remedial action and persecutes them, because
they have become pests.

Damn... I'm outta limes!

John
http://groups.msn.com/scottishflyfisher
Responsible anglers catch and release.
Lose the barbs or lose the fish!

On 28 Sep 2005 19:28:38 -0700, wrote:

Mike,

It isn't so in all of Europe, as it is till pretty cheap, clean and
wild in all of the Scandinavian countries, and from the size of those
countries, and with regard to their low population,I still feel that
there's hope. I do however share your concern about overfishing,
especially in the sea. The sad thing is that scientists have been
warning about possible collapsing populations of fish, like for example
cod, and still the politicians seem to listen only to the fishing
industry. Then again, why am I surprised? Have yet to meet with a
politician who cares more about what's actually going on than his or
hers own career and wallet.

On another note, I'd like to see Scotland one day, not necessarily
because of the fishing but still, it looks like a nice place (and they
do produce a certain liquid that I find interesting).


I suppose that being a fisherman, I should prefer a Speyside malt, but
I'd go for an Islay one every time. Mmm... peat smoke!

Anyway, I digress. I should be making a shameless plug for the SFF
group at this juncture. ;-)

Scotland is beautiful,if you ignore some areas in the central belt.
(Yeah, I know, I'm biased.) Just bring plenty of waterproofs and
insect repellant and you'll have a blast!

John
http://groups.msn.com/scottishflyfisher
Responsible anglers catch and release.
Lose the barbs or lose the fish!