Fly Fishing Canoe

Steve Thomas typed:
Ken,

On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:34:47 -0500, Ken Fortenberry

Nice boat. Here's the tandem tripper I use for solo paddling
and fishing.

http://www.frappr.com/?a=viewphoto&i...73&pid=5896861

Nice boat :-)

Yeah, but that is one ugly dude, eh? . . . and, no, I don't mean Kipper. ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
-------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

On Oct 15, 1:24 pm, wrote:

But here's another (qualified*) vote for Wenonah's Adirondak.

Let me further qualify- method rather than watercraft- since another
thread evolved into "oh, he was talking about fishing for a different
species than I am."

I have never once (knowingly) fished for trout from a canoe, nor for
any species in flowing water. My sole prey when paddling are
largemouth bass and bluegill (and any other topwater feeders, the
stray crappie, etc.) in warmwater ponds. As far as I'm concerned,
anchoring a comfortable casting distance from some structure in such a
piece of water and slinging a big garish popper to the bucket mouths
is a perfectly fine way to spend a summer afternoon or evening, and
requires neither standing, nor particular stealth, perhaps the root of
its appeal to me.

However a certain lake in beautiful Iron County, Michigan of which I
am inordinately fond, hosts warmwater species as well as brook trout,
and it is my firm intention to target all of them one of these days.

Bill

Wolfgang wrote:
"rw" wrote in message
m...


I hate the idea of fishing in a canoe by myself, without another paddler
to keep it in place and oriented in the wind to where I want to cast. I
far prefer a pontoon boat that I can control with both oars AND fins. The
oars get you to where you want to go and the fins keep you where you want
to be and facing in the direction you want to face.

I've fished in one-man kayaks in the Florida Keys and in Belize. Same
problem. Hated it.


Ditto, canoes and kayaks. Both are abominable platforms to fish from. Even
with someone else along to paddle, a canoe is still fairly miserable.

Don't know squat about pontoons.

Belly boats are great.

Pontoon boats have three big advantages over belly boats:

1. You can use the oars to travel much farther distances with much less
effort.

2. You sit up higher, out of the cold water and in a better casting
position.

3. You can carry more stuff (tackle, anchor, lunch, etc.).

The only disadvantage is that they're heavier. You pretty much need road
access to the water.

I use both a pontoon boat for when I have road access and a belly boat
for backcountry fishing.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

riverman wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
I agree with everything except the 17' length. A 17' tandem
is more canoe than I care to paddle solo, I wouldn't buy a
tandem canoe much over 16' for solo paddling/fishing. ...

Yeah, I agree that there's some discussion on the 16' vs 17' length to
be had. I find a 16' boat a tad on the crowded side for tandem
tripping,

It depends on the size of the paddlers and the boat I guess.
My bow man (wife ;-), is 5'7" 135 lbs., Kipper the Hound is
70 lbs. and I'm 5'11" 220ish, we all fit into my Navigator 16
with room for a weekend's worth of gear. Anything longer than
a couple of days we paddle an 18'6" Wenonah Odyssey.

but a 17' is certainly a bit long for a solo boat (although
my first love was a Blue Hole 17A that I put a lot of solo miles on).

Well, a lot of high volume solo expedition boats and solo
performance boats are 17' or even longer but I'm talking
about trying to paddle a beamy 17' tandem solo and for me
that trick never works. Wasn't the Blue Hole a whitewater
boat ?

I think the OP should put a lot of thought into how much solo vs
tandem paddling he is truly planning to do, and with how much gear.

Agreed. Either that or adopt the Wayne Knight method of gear
shopping, that is, buy both ! ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

rw wrote:



Pontoon boats have three big advantages over belly boats:

1. You can use the oars to travel much farther distances with much less
effort.

2. You sit up higher, out of the cold water and in a better casting
position.

3. You can carry more stuff (tackle, anchor, lunch, etc.).

The only disadvantage is that they're heavier. You pretty much need road
access to the water.

I use both a pontoon boat for when I have road access and a belly boat
for backcountry fishing.


I'm trying to decide on a possible craft. Like you started with, there
are pluses and minuses for all the self propelled craft:

1. Belly boats
+ easy to transport, good for fishing, control with feet,
- need to wear waders and fins, difficult to go any distance, suck in
the wind, cold because you're sitting in the water, not for
running water

2. Pontoons
+ great for fishing, fair for covering distance, control with feet, some
models good for rivers
- need to wear waders and fins, difficult to transport if kept together
PIA to assemble if you break it down, nor good for long distances

3. Canoes
+ great for carrying gear, great for long trips, good speed and easy of
rowing, good for rivers
- mediocre for fly fishing, have to use paddle to control, fairly
difficult to transport

4. Kayak
+ fastest and easiest to go long distance, good in rivers, best
(only?) in ocean
- mediocre for fishing, fairly difficult to transport, have to use
paddle to control


It seems to me that each has places where it is better than the others.

I couple I've been looking at:

http://www.hobiecat.com/kayaking/models_outback.html

and

http://www.nativewatercraft.com/index.html

Willi

"riverman" wrote in message
oups.com...
snip - look it up
Good luck, WEAR A LIFEJACKET.

--riverman

Ditto that. However, I'll disagree with some of what Ken and riverman say.
I *love* my Wenonah Solo+ for flyfishing. Not a great tandem boat (except
for my sons), but a totally awesome solo boat for flyfishing (I don't try to
stand up). The narrow beam makes casting to either side easy. The hull
shape lets the boat roll with your hips. Great to paddle - fast, stable,
tracks well.

On Oct 16, 4:55 am, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
riverman wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
I agree with everything except the 17' length. A 17' tandem
is more canoe than I care to paddle solo, I wouldn't buy a
tandem canoe much over 16' for solo paddling/fishing. ...

Yeah, I agree that there's some discussion on the 16' vs 17' length to
be had. I find a 16' boat a tad on the crowded side for tandem
tripping,

It depends on the size of the paddlers and the boat I guess.
My bow man (wife ;-), is 5'7" 135 lbs., Kipper the Hound is
70 lbs. and I'm 5'11" 220ish, we all fit into my Navigator 16
with room for a weekend's worth of gear. Anything longer than
a couple of days we paddle an 18'6" Wenonah Odyssey.

We'd be good paddling partners. I'm 6'3" and 235, but I have varying
bow paddlers. When doing day trips or weekend trips, I use an Explorer
16 (solo or tandem). On longer trips, I like a river with a bit of
whitewater, so I like a shorter boat: 17 or 17'6 is about max. I like
an OT Tripper when I can get ahold of one.

When I guided, of course I tried to keep all perishables out of the
client boats, and also keep their boats light, so I paddled the BH
solo with hundreds of pounds of gear for weeks on end. Not very good
for snappy turns, but I learned to use the currents,and man could I
glide through almost anything while laying on a brace. I also could
use the sharp end of eddy lines to help with turns, etc, so I never
really 'muscled' it around as much as some would think. In any case,
I got extremely comfortable with a big heavy boat, and anything less
than 16 foot still feels a bit small and skittish to me. I also like
long skis; I'm a bit old school.

All this is past tense, of course. I recently gave away the BH, and my
fleet now consists of a 16' and 14' Explorer (and a Folboat Aleut). I
need to get out in the shorter canoe more, but its racked in Maine and
of course, I'm in HK.


but a 17' is certainly a bit long for a solo boat (although
my first love was a Blue Hole 17A that I put a lot of solo miles on).

Well, a lot of high volume solo expedition boats and solo
performance boats are 17' or even longer but I'm talking
about trying to paddle a beamy 17' tandem solo and for me
that trick never works.

I accept that, and being good at pushing around River Pigs isn't
necessarily Merit Badge material. But I was thinking of what might
work best for the OP: if he's a novice or intermediate canoist, and
interested in standing and casting while having a dry and peaceful
experience, I'd recommend that he lead toward the longer side of the
16'-17' debate. For you and me, the recommendation is quite different.

Wasn't the Blue Hole a whitewater
boat ?

Yeah, BITD (back in the day), it was one of the original ww boats. The
idea was to have a high volume, low-rocker, flat bottomed boat that
would ride up and over big waves. The current trend of course is high
rocker and good flare to knife into big waves and rock through them
while the flare kicks the bow wave aside.

The result is that the BH has a niche in big water...I've run Class
IVs in it (loaded) and come out dry. But there's a difference between
survival boating and playboating. I'm a tripper, not a playboater.

I think the OP should put a lot of thought into how much solo vs
tandem paddling he is truly planning to do, and with how much gear.

Agreed. Either that or adopt the Wayne Knight method of gear
shopping, that is, buy both ! ;-)


Always a good solution.

--riverman

"mdk77" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm saving my nickels for a canoe to fly fish from. I'm hoping, God-
willing, to be able to buy one over the Winter, or early Spring. Do
many of you fish from canoes? I'm thinking a canoe would be a simple
way to get onto the many ponds, rivers and lakes around here, without
the hassle of having to trailer a bigger boat. My brother-in-law in
Oregon has had a canoe for years, and it sure seems peaceful and
hassle-free.

I'm looking at a 17 footer that is stable, light and capable of being
a tandem OR a solo canoe. Have any of you had experience (or heard
good or bad) about the Souris River Canoes? I'm looking at the
"Quetico 17". Here's a link to what I'm considering:

http://www.redrockstore.com/quetico17.html

I think this canoe would be great for the places I fish around here in
Central Illinois -- and be easy to take on trips out-of-state.

Let me know if there is something else worth considering in a fly
fishing canoe. Thanks.

- Dave K.


When I was on the Arolik River AK this year, there was an official from
the Alaska F&G that floated by us. He was in a one-man inflatable kayak. I
was pretty impressed as I watched him maneuver the craft with ease through
the fast water with his double paddle. He had great kayaking skills. He
also carried enough load for himself. He told me it's the best craft he's
even been in.
I asked for all the data, here is the link:
http://www.alaskaraftandkayak.com/ca...ayaks&id=3 81
He actually started 3-days behind us on our 9-day trip. He passed us and
was scheduled to get to the end 4-days before us. We told him about the fish
we caught, and he told us we did better than most guides that come out here.
Although we had our AK fishing license, he never asked for it. He was just
out to review the Arolik River.
-tom

wrote in message
oups.com...

However a certain lake in beautiful Iron County, Michigan of which I
am inordinately fond, hosts warmwater species as well as brook trout,
and it is my firm intention to target all of them one of these days.

Speaking of targets, I went by that lake a couple of times and through the
equally beautiful forest surrounding it about 9 days ago, in hot pursuit of
the startlingly loud an invulnerable wraiths commonly known as grouse.
Having proved, once again, that hot lead is useless against them, I remain
grateful that they typically move away from me in disdain rather than toward
me with ill intent.

Wolfgang
no fish were harmed or otherwise annoyed in the making of this report or its
antecedent events.

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:02:31 -0000, mdk77
wrote:

I'm saving my nickels for a canoe to fly fish from. I'm hoping, God-
willing, to be able to buy one over the Winter, or early Spring. Do
many of you fish from canoes? I'm thinking a canoe would be a simple
way to get onto the many ponds, rivers and lakes around here, without
the hassle of having to trailer a bigger boat. My brother-in-law in
Oregon has had a canoe for years, and it sure seems peaceful and
hassle-free.

I'm looking at a 17 footer that is stable, light and capable of being
a tandem OR a solo canoe. Have any of you had experience (or heard
good or bad) about the Souris River Canoes? I'm looking at the
"Quetico 17". Here's a link to what I'm considering:

http://www.redrockstore.com/quetico17.html

I think this canoe would be great for the places I fish around here in
Central Illinois -- and be easy to take on trips out-of-state.

Let me know if there is something else worth considering in a fly
fishing canoe. Thanks.

- Dave K.

You've been given some good advice thus far. I'd add/paraphrase that if
the marketing for any canoe you are considering contains the word
"fast(er)" or anything else touting the speed of the boat, it's gonna be
that much less suitable for use as a FFing platform. Like most of
boating, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch - you want holeshot
from a outboard prop, you're giving up topend, you want more cockpit
room in an X ft. boat, you're taking a smaller house, you want more HP
from a particular diesel, it'll reduce TBOH, etc. HOWEVER....many
canoes that aren't particularly stable (for FFing or otherwise) can be
made much more so with sponsons, and if the craft is fairly stable "au
natural," it can be made damned near untippable with them (you can
actually FF standing from a sit_IN_ kayak with a proper set...not my cup
of tea, but...). They range from permanent types "'glassed" (or
whatever material'ed) on/in to "airbags/tubes" that strap to the side,
with the middle ground being the bolt-on removable type. I've fished
(FFing and otherwise) from canoes with the permanent type and the "bag"
type and they work. We have a hard-moulded dink with accessory tubes
that are much like sponsons (they turn it into a sort of quasi RBI) and
the damned thing is just about like a sheet of cork tile with them on -
you can fall down or out and you can swamp it, but you and 5 friends
ain't sinking or flipping it.

That said, if you're looking for (only) a "fishing boat" (platform)
rather than transport, etc., there are lots of choices, including
light(er)weight jonboats, rigid-bottom inflatables, hybrids (ala
"gheenoes"), pirogues, etc. that are probably better choices for pure
fishing (only) platforms than a canoe. However, what a makes a canoe
effective as longer-distance self-powered transport makes it weaker as a
stable FFing platform and vice-versa - a wide, flat (particularly
stable) bottom on a boat is going to make it harder to paddle/row. And
many of the options are heavier than a canoe in a similar size. If you
have a fairly healthy fishing partner or are physically capable of
putting a small jon boat into a pickup, you're pretty much good to go,
but if you plan on nothing but solo'ing and cannot lift 75-plus lbs.
over your head, you'll need to really study your options, canoe or
otherwise. And a tip on loading a canoe damage-free onto a standard
factory "SUV" - many such racks are not tall enough (from the roof) and
the crossmembers aren't stiff enough to in-line load a canoe from the
rear without the bow scraping the roof, so I'd recommend loading first
with assistance to see what's what. And I don't care what _anyone_
says, those off-the-shelf foam-block "racks" that fit over the gunwales
aren't worth a bag of wet cow****...in fact, if it were large enough,
the bag of wet cow**** would probably make a better "rack"...do yourself
and your vehicle a favor and get a real rack. With the right rack and a
little instruction, a moderately healthy 12 y.o can load a 12-14 ft.
aluminum jonboat onto a tall "SUV" with nary a wince from the owner.

Finally, whatever you decide to get, if you wish the craft to remain
stationary or only move short distances (under 100-200 ft.) while
fishing, use two anchors/anchorpoints. For example, if you are in a
river and wish to remain in one spot, bring the bow (or if you've
swapped positions, what is the apparent bow) into the current, set a
Danforth off the bow, drift back past the desired spot (how far depends
on depth), drop a river anchor off the stern, and use the bow rode to
reposition. You can do a similar thing, with one anchor ashore from the
bow relative to the land and one off the stern relative to the land to
hold position and distance off of a bank, island, etc. in lake.
Obviously, if the water has motorized traffic, keep that in mind with
regard to anchorage, rode angle, etc.

Good, lightweight rode is pretty cheap (well under 20 bucks US for a 100
ft. 3/8 if you shop, about 20 bucks if you just go buy it) and if you
can use such techniques, get at least 100 ft. for each anchor. An
anchor rode has a thimble and the anchor is shackled to the rode - a
length of chain may be needed between the rope and the anchor, depending
on bottom conditions (unless the bottom is particularly abrasive or the
anchorage failing can endanger people or property, you probably don't
need the chain for your purposes). An anchor rode _is not_ a hunk of
clothesline granny-knotted hard to the anchor eye. The dirt cheap poly
rope (places like Home Depot and Harbor Freight sell hanks of it for
under $5.00 for 100 ft.) IS NOT ANCHOR ROPE - granted, you're not
anchoring the QE2 in a hurricane, but it's not it's lack of strength
that'll screw you - it'll kink, you've got to take care with knot types,
it's hard to properly coil, it isn't UV resistant, etc., and you'll
generally regret the alleged "savings." Lastly, never drop an anchor
unless you have _at hand_ a way to _instantly_ cut the rode - IOW, a 1"
rode and a pair of safety scissors somewhere in the salon can be a
deadly combination...a 3/8" line and a good sheath knife on your belt is
a safe combo.

Remember that boats are subject to not only the "water current" but wind
and wind currents, and while you don't need to know a bunch of ground
tackle theory and application, a general knowledge of basic anchoring
techniques and equipment will serve a fisher in a small boat well.

TC,
R