Farmed salmon

This will also be of interest;
http://www.anglers-net.co.uk/sacn/wavemaker.htm

TL
MC

Warren wrote:

....... This is a very serious issue
that needs to be addressed ASAP. It is up to anglers like ourselves
and the consumers to end this practice immediately.
.......
Sad and very true. Our very lives are based upon water and the
wholesale destruction of our waters is something that affects every
living being on this planet. Oceans can no longer be our dumping
ground or waste dump.
......
Does anyone know of any groups that are lobbying governments to fix
the problem and who are not environmental whackos? Unfortunately,
there are groups who use this sad fact for their political gain
(PETA, et al). I am just looking for a group to support that has no
political gain at all and is merely interested in the well-being of
people and our environment. Suggestions would be GREATLY
appreciated.

No offensive, Warren, but you are becoming seriously confused (though
maybe in this case, that's a good thing g). Most of what you've
written above IS, in fact, environmental whackoism. Starts to affect
something of "personal" concern, so welcome to the club, eh? Farmed
salmon, proprietary potatoes, Round-up Ready soybeans, or hormone-laced,
antibiotic-drenched, offal-fed, downer cattle.... once "consumers" cede
the entire food production system to a handful of mega-agribusinesses
they better get used to 1) eating crap, 2) seeing the environment take
it in the butt.

Groups "interested in the well-being of people and our environment"
BECOME politically active (and annoying to some) simply because having
clout in the political process is how you get things done. Don't feel
shy, though. Quite apart from the chi-chi charity circuit types who use
environmental awareness for PR purposes while their corporations spew
anything and everything anywhere and everywhere, a lot of conservatives
(the right-thinking sort, anyway) are staunch, true environmentalists.
So jump right in. Strange bedfellows and all that.

In another article on the farmed salmon story, a scientist at a large
U.S. university claims the study in fact shows that farmed salmon is
perfectly safe. Go to that scientist's CV on his university's web site,
look at the list of his research publications, look up the publications
themselves and read the acknowledgments at the end, and discover large
amounts of his research is funded by Monsanto, which (if you look a bit
farther in other directions) you find is working on genetically
modifying salmon to make them more "adapted" to the conditions farmed
salmon are raised under. Hm.

Anyway, wild salmon are goners. What tipped it, in my view, are recent,
apparently successful attempts in the PNW to eliminate the distinction
between wild stocks and hatchery-bred stocks of salmon/steelhead, with
misleading claims that they are essentially identical genetically. If
that big lie is swallowed, it's all downhill.

Still, you might look to see if any of these orgs manage to make it past
your vestigial Enviro-Wack-O-Meter:

http://www.wildsalmoncenter.org/ (these are the folks that organize the
research/fishing trips to Kamchatka)

http://www.wildsalmon.org/

Or my favorites (for different reasons):

http://home.teleport.com/~salmo/ (the Science and Research section of
their "Library" is a great resource)

http://www.salmonnation.com/

Or, more traditionally, Oregon Trout's Salmon Watch educational program
would be a good thing to support:

http://www.ortrout.org/8success/salmon.html

JR

wrote...
No offensive, Warren, but you are becoming seriously confused (though
maybe in this case, that's a good thing g). Most of what you've
written above IS, in fact, environmental whackoism. Starts to affect
something of "personal" concern, so welcome to the club, eh? Farmed
salmon, proprietary potatoes, Round-up Ready soybeans, or hormone-laced,
antibiotic-drenched, offal-fed, downer cattle.... once "consumers" cede
the entire food production system to a handful of mega-agribusinesses
they better get used to 1) eating crap, 2) seeing the environment take
it in the butt.

Nothing I wrote was whacko, it is just common sense combined with a
responsibility to do something about a given situation. As a
fisherman, wild and native fish are a topic of concern and I do not
view conservation, protection and/or restoration of fisheries as
whacko efforts; it is a responsibility. No matter what political
allegiances you may have, some things are just bad and there is no
other conclusion that can be reached when armed with the facts. A
group dedicated to ending salmon farming because it is inhumane to
the fish being raised would fall within my personal view of being a
whacko group.

Can you see the distinction yet or are you still confused? You need
not read more into what I have said than what is there; concern as an
angler for a wild, native strain of fish and the larger group of fish
in the oceans. My concern and determination are not the beginning of
a new line of thinking where I start smoking dope, grow my hair long
and started flashing peace signs instead of the middle finger to
assholes while eating tofu burgers. Funk dat!

Groups "interested in the well-being of people and our environment"
BECOME politically active (and annoying to some) simply because having
clout in the political process is how you get things done. Don't feel
shy, though. Quite apart from the chi-chi charity circuit types who use
environmental awareness for PR purposes while their corporations spew
anything and everything anywhere and everywhere, a lot of conservatives
(the right-thinking sort, anyway) are staunch, true environmentalists.
So jump right in. Strange bedfellows and all that.

Political lobbying for a cause is one thing because it can bring
about the needed change. Funding a politician or party under the
guise of a good cause is what I am trying to avoid. This should not
be a political issue other than instituting the changes that are
needed to remedy the situation. Groups with multiple agendas and
causes are not the sort that I am looking for because I may disagree
with their other platforms. I am looking for a specific group with a
specific goal in ending salmon farming so as to protect native fish
populations and fisheries. Just because other organizations endorse
this goal does not mean that I want to join their particular group
and be a part of their other goals.

Anyway, wild salmon are goners. What tipped it, in my view, are recent,
apparently successful attempts in the PNW to eliminate the distinction
between wild stocks and hatchery-bred stocks of salmon/steelhead, with
misleading claims that they are essentially identical genetically. If
that big lie is swallowed, it's all downhill.

I sure hope that wild salmon and steelhead aren't goners. That will
be a sad, sad day and I refuse to just write it off as foregone
conclusion. There is still some small hope and I will gladly fight
for that hope using what meager contributions I can to ensure that
the day does not come. It is my duty as a fisherman, who hopes to
someday enjoy more of that type of fishing than I have, to make the
effort. If not for my own enjoyment, then for the enjoyment of
future generations such as my daughter whom I someday hope to take on
a fishing trip like that.

Still, you might look to see if any of these orgs manage to make it past
your vestigial Enviro-Wack-O-Meter:

Well, I don't see PETA in the list so there is hope that my Enviro-
Wack-O-Meter won't be red-lined. ;-) I added them to the ones that
Mike offered and will check them out. I have spent some time with
the link Mike posted and that is EXACTLY the type of group I am
looking for. The article 'Getting Involved' by Leon Roskilly just
the sort of thing I needed to get my ass busy but lazy cheap ass
involved. I look forward to finding equally hopeful articles and
suggestions in the links you provided. I thank you and Mike for
taking the time to post the links.

Now if you will excuse me, I am going fishing. :-)
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)
For Conclave Info:
http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt...nConclave.html

wrote...
No offensive, Warren, but you are becoming seriously confused (though
maybe in this case, that's a good thing g). Most of what you've
written above IS, in fact, environmental whackoism. Starts to affect
something of "personal" concern, so welcome to the club, eh? Farmed
salmon, proprietary potatoes, Round-up Ready soybeans, or hormone-laced,
antibiotic-drenched, offal-fed, downer cattle.... once "consumers" cede
the entire food production system to a handful of mega-agribusinesses
they better get used to 1) eating crap, 2) seeing the environment take
it in the butt.

None taken, but I disagree with you in part. What I posted is pretty
much considered true by several prominent sources. Yes, the issue
has become personal. As a fisherman, and one who hopes to do more
salmon fishing and wants to get some steelhead fishing in, I am
concerned about these species of fish and their environment. It has
been pretty well demonstrated that farm raised salmon are just plain
bad and do more harm than good. They are not only an environmental
threat, but they also pose a threat to native stocks of fish (you
could consider that an extension of the environment of course).
AFAIK the only "studies" done that say that these operations are not
harmful are bought and paid for by special interest groups
representing these farming operations and their cronies. This boils
down to a situation where there is only right and wrong and
"whackoism" doesn't come into play IMO.

What I consider "whackoism" are causes that don't add up either
scientifically or intellectually. They may be topics that rouse deep
passions, but that doesn't mean they can be proven beyond a
reasonable doubt and are nothing more than "feelings" or opinions.
Some people take issue with people who wear leather products, furs,
etc. Yes they are passionate about the issue, but that doesn't mean
that the issue is right or necessarily wrong because in the end it is
a personal issue. Farm raised salmon has some scientific data behind
it as well as anecdotal evidence and has grown beyond the "feeling"
or "opinion" stage, if you know what I mean.

Groups "interested in the well-being of people and our environment"
BECOME politically active (and annoying to some) simply because having
clout in the political process is how you get things done. Don't feel
shy, though. Quite apart from the chi-chi charity circuit types who use
environmental awareness for PR purposes while their corporations spew
anything and everything anywhere and everywhere, a lot of conservatives
(the right-thinking sort, anyway) are staunch, true environmentalists.
So jump right in. Strange bedfellows and all that.

Yes, such organizations do become politically active because that is
how change is brought about. I thought I made it pretty clear what I
was trying to avoid, but apparently I failed so here we go again.....
PETA is probably against farm raised salmon due to it being
"inhumane" to the fish. Should I support their group, which also has
other agendas that I most emphatically disagree with? Should I send
money or volunteer my time to an organization that is going to be
counterproductive to other concerns of mine? I think not. What I was
looking for was a group like Mike Connor posted a link to, but here
in the US. The group I envision is about dealing with this issue and
has no political allegiance other than what it will take to bring
about change. They don't fund a particular political party, they do
not sponsor attack ads against an opposing party, etc. They are,
unlike ROFF, on topic and focused on one issue.

In another article on the farmed salmon story, a scientist at a large
U.S. university claims the study in fact shows that farmed salmon is
perfectly safe. Go to that scientist's CV on his university's web site,
look at the list of his research publications, look up the publications
themselves and read the acknowledgments at the end, and discover large
amounts of his research is funded by Monsanto, which (if you look a bit
farther in other directions) you find is working on genetically
modifying salmon to make them more "adapted" to the conditions farmed
salmon are raised under. Hm.

EXACTLY!!!!! It is kind like the studies done by scientist bought
and paid for by tobacco companies! For years they told us it was
safe, but it turns out that they lied. The studies on this issue
(farmed salmon) are pretty one-sided against the industry. Of course
there will be studies done by those with a financial interest at
stake and they will try to disprove those studies that paint their
industry in a bad light. But in the end, you have to admit that a
reasonable person would come to the conclusion that salmon farming
poses a severe threat to not only the environment, but the native
fish as well. This is just correct, not whacko IMO. Of course a
person involved with salmon farming would probably disagree and I
would be obliged to kick them in the ding-ding. Saving all the
trees, not using animal products and extremes such as those are what
I call whacko. Groups with many different "causes" that I don't
agree with were what I was trying to avoid.

Anyway, wild salmon are goners. What tipped it, in my view, are recent,
apparently successful attempts in the PNW to eliminate the distinction
between wild stocks and hatchery-bred stocks of salmon/steelhead, with
misleading claims that they are essentially identical genetically. If
that big lie is swallowed, it's all downhill.

I sure hope you are wrong. While I am a cynic by nature, I am also
stubborn as hell. Sometimes I refuse to admit defeat just because I
would rather make a go of it than give up. This is an issue where my
cynicism is going full bore because IME money talks and the truth can
be covered up with enough money, (that plays out on many different
levels) but I refuse to give up. And yeah, my stubbornness for Bush
is waning with each passing day as more and more facts are
revealed.....

Still, you might look to see if any of these orgs manage to make it past
your vestigial Enviro-Wack-O-Meter:

I wouldn't call it "vestigial." It is more like an awareness or
advancement that you were unaware of. g It would be easy to
sponsor any group with one cause that I shared. It would be just as
easy to sponsor a group and views of theirs that I do not share or
would wish not to contribute to. Hopefully one of the links that you
provided will offer me a much needed say in the matter. I really do
thank you for the links and have been spending quite a bit of time
checking these places out. After reading about what impact these
operations have had on other nations and their wild stocks of fish, I
desperately want to save what we still have. When the last remaining
native stocks of these fish die, it will be a sad, sad day and I
don't know if what is left to fish (hatchery fish or crossbred
mutants) will mean as much to me. I'll probably hang up the rod and
become "an old fart" and just bitch about how good it used to be.

I don't know. Maybe you are right and that I am now considered a
whacko. People in the same political party thought Theodore
Roosevelt was a whacko when he started becoming a conservationist
too. It doesn't change my views on other issues and I still find
myself agreeing with the Republican party more than that of the
Democrats, but some issues should transcend political ideologies IMO
because they are just the right thing to do. This is how I see this
particular issue.

snipped a bunch of useful links

Thanks again for the links. I cannot tell you how grateful I am.

PS: Willi, are you up to speed yet? g
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)
For Conclave Info:
http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt...nConclave.html

Sierra fisher wrote:

I try to buy only wild salmon so this doens't bother me. what does though
is whether the raising of large numbers will effect our fisheries. The west
coast of Ireland used to be a good a good Altantic salmon fishery. Now
there are are few fish caught on this coast. the story is that there is too
much crap and too many disease associated with the massive fish pens
stationed in the estuaries. the wild salmon apparently cannot survive in
this situation.
there are apparently large Atlantic salmon pens in British Columbia, and
some have escaped. I have seen a report of one caught in the wild.


Escapes from ocean pens are a common occurrence. From reports I have read,
there are some streams where they have successfully spawned.

What worries me more are the "super" fish that have been developed.
There's a genetically manipulated Atlantic Salmon that has been
developed by a company on the East coast. So far they haven't gotten
approval for farming the fish off the coast. However, there is lots of
money behind the company.

Willi