what WF3 line should I buy?

"Wolfgang" wrote...
snip
Now, get 37 five weight rods.....all of them different makes and/or models
from one another.

Wayne - is that you?
--
TL,
Tim
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

Now, get 37 five weight rods.....all of them different makes and/or models


Now that's an experiment I can appreciate g

William My local fly fishing dealer (I live in Europe) says the Gary
William LaFontaine's Delicate Presentation Line is the best invention
William since sliced bread. Cortland 444 is old news.

William Do you happen to know this line?

It's a WF line, so that's a definite no-no for me. Besides, the point
was that we at least know the true rating of a 444, whereas for other
lines it seems to be more or less a gamble these days.

Certainly not something to lose your sleep over, but might still be
worth voting with your money. :-)

--
Jarmo Hurri

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Wolfgang Um......I don't suppose it has occurred to anyone that line
Wolfgang standards don't mean **** if they aren't matched to
Wolfgang stringent rod standards?

Well, we can still hope that at least the one standard that has been
well defined would also be applied (in reality). It would be (has
been) a starting point, if nothing else.

Wolfgang Anybody here ever tried to cast identical rods matched with
Wolfgang identical reels and identical lines side by side? And, I
Wolfgang don't suppose it has ever occurred to anyone that line
Wolfgang standards based on gross weight of the first thirty
Wolfgang feet......or whatever.....don't mean **** unless the weight
Wolfgang is distributed EXACTLY the same in ALL of those lines?

True to some extent. The split shot experiment is probably too radical
to prove that the weight distribution has to be _exactly_ the same. My
guess would be that If I take two identical 5wt rods with identical
reels, and rig them up with two different true 5wt DT lines - which
have the exact same weight at 30' - they're going to feel _very_
similar. The differences in DT tapers are probably not the same order
of magnitude as the difference you get when you attach a split shot at
different positions. Haven't tried it, though, but I am willing to
place a small bet. :-)

--
Jarmo Hurri

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William H.M.Wood wrote:My local fly fishing dealer (I live in Europe) says the
Gary
LaFontaine's Delicate Presentation Line is the best invention since
sliced bread. Cortland 444 is old news.

Do you happen to know this line?



If you are talking about the one that is in a drab olive color I bought one of
them when they first came out. It might be the answer if you fish primarily
very small flies in something like spring creek conditions. I don't but once
every five years or so. It does not work worth a damn with the heavily weighted
flies that I use in size 8 or 10 for my bluegill fishing. When I fish for trout
I seldom use flies smaller that a size 16 and I think that line excells for the
smaller flies.Since I bought that line, I have bought five or six more of the
old peach colored 444 lines in various sizes. I seldom cast more that 30 feet
in my fishing, so I do not need the ability to cast very long distances.I also
found that the drab olive color of that LaFontaine line was difficult to see at
the longer distances. You might want to consider this.

Big Dale

"Jarmo Hurri" wrote in message
...

Wolfgang Um......I don't suppose it has occurred to anyone that
line
Wolfgang standards don't mean **** if they aren't matched to
Wolfgang stringent rod standards?

Well, we can still hope that at least the one standard that has been
well defined would also be applied (in reality). It would be (has
been) a starting point, if nothing else.

Intuitively, it seems undeniable that standardization in any aspect of
equipment HAS to make it easier to make sound decisions about how to
match components to achieve optimum performance. Intuition sometimes
fails. Casting dynamics are just too complicated for a fixed line
weight to be the ideal solution for even a small number of casters
under a highly restricted set of circumstances. Far better, I think,
to go in the opposite direction......to offer a much wider variety of
weights and tapers than is currently available and simply label
accordingly. Let the user decide which suits him or her best.


Wolfgang Anybody here ever tried to cast identical rods matched
with
Wolfgang identical reels and identical lines side by side? And, I
Wolfgang don't suppose it has ever occurred to anyone that line
Wolfgang standards based on gross weight of the first thirty
Wolfgang feet......or whatever.....don't mean **** unless the
weight
Wolfgang is distributed EXACTLY the same in ALL of those lines?

True to some extent. The split shot experiment is probably too
radical
to prove that the weight distribution has to be _exactly_ the same.
My
guess would be that If I take two identical 5wt rods with identical
reels, and rig them up with two different true 5wt DT lines - which
have the exact same weight at 30' - they're going to feel _very_
similar. The differences in DT tapers are probably not the same
order
of magnitude as the difference you get when you attach a split shot
at
different positions. Haven't tried it, though, but I am willing to
place a small bet. :-)

The split shot experiment IS radical, but deliberately so, to
illustrate the point. But your counter-example illustrates that too
much emphasis is being placed on this matter of standards. If the
differences among 5 wt. DT lines aren't sufficient to demonstrate what
the split shot does, then what is the problem?

As for betting, I'd be willing to wager a goodly sum that very few
people, if handed a fly rod and told that it was either a four or five
weight and that it was strung with either a four or five weight line,
could consistently tell you which combination it was. Complicate the
experiment just a bit by repeated trials with different brands of rods
and I think no one would get results much better than random guessing.
Under actual fishing conditions the complexity of the problem is
increased by orders of magnitude. By the time you add in leader
characteristics, length of cast, type of cast, fly characteristics,
environmental considerations, individual casting idiosyncrasies and
others, the mere gross weight of the first thirty feet of line pales
to insignificance.

Wolfgang

wolfgang Intuitively, it seems undeniable that standardization in any
wolfgang aspect of equipment HAS to make it easier to make sound
wolfgang decisions about how to match components to achieve optimum
wolfgang performance. Intuition sometimes fails. Casting dynamics
wolfgang are just too complicated for a fixed line weight to be the
wolfgang ideal solution for even a small number of casters under a
wolfgang highly restricted set of circumstances. Far better, I
wolfgang think, to go in the opposite direction......to offer a much
wolfgang wider variety of weights and tapers than is currently
wolfgang available and simply label accordingly. Let the user decide
wolfgang which suits him or her best.

Yes, casting is too complicated to allow such an easy solution to the
problem of finding an _ideal_ line, as you note, but I think that
standardization facilitates finding satisficing solutions. Pros can
optimize in their own backyards.

wolfgang The split shot experiment IS radical, but deliberately so,
wolfgang to illustrate the point. But your counter-example
wolfgang illustrates that too much emphasis is being placed on this
wolfgang matter of standards. If the differences among 5 wt. DT
wolfgang lines aren't sufficient to demonstrate what the split shot
wolfgang does, then what is the problem?

I was naturally talking about 5wt DT lines which conform to the
standards.

wolfgang As for betting, I'd be willing to wager a goodly sum that
wolfgang very few people, if handed a fly rod and told that it was
wolfgang either a four or five weight and that it was strung with
wolfgang either a four or five weight line, could consistently tell
wolfgang you which combination it was.

Agreed.

wolfgang Complicate the experiment just a bit by repeated trials with
wolfgang different brands of rods and I think no one would get
wolfgang results much better than random guessing. Under actual
wolfgang fishing conditions the complexity of the problem is
wolfgang increased by orders of magnitude. By the time you add in
wolfgang leader characteristics, length of cast, type of cast, fly
wolfgang characteristics, environmental considerations, individual
wolfgang casting idiosyncrasies and others, the mere gross weight of
wolfgang the first thirty feet of line pales to insignificance.

I find fly-fishing to be the sum of many, many small issues that in
isolation seem insignificant, at least to some people. Like the brand
of whisky one prefers. Maybe many of these issues actually are as
small as they look, can't say.

--
Jarmo Hurri

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On Sun, 6 Jun 2004, Wayne Knight wrote:
"William H.M. Wood" wrote in message
What would be a good WF 3?

I like the SA mastery and the Wulf series of lines myself.

I'll third the recommendation for the Wulff Triangle Taper. It's lovely
on my 8 ft 3 wt.
__________________________________________________ _____________________
\ Mu Young Lee
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Peter Charles wrote:

No sympathy from this corner -- if you think regular lines are screwed
up, you should try spey lines.

One popular West Coast light spey rod casts both a Rio Windcutter 5/6
and a Hardy Mach 1 8/9 lines with equal ease as both lines weight
about the same!!!

It's chaos . . .

Yeah, every time I take it into my head to quit just thinking about
going spey and actually buying something, I look at the Spey Clave site,
and after an hour or so my head starts spinning from all the rod/line
combinations, so I revert to rumination mode.....

Someone just posted these links on Westfly -- tables with Rio's and SA's
spey line-to-rod matchups.

http://www.rioproducts.com/pages/speyrecs.asp
http://www.flyfishusa.com/lines/mast...atability.html

Are these useful in your opinion? Maybe *this* is the future....

JR