Flyline/Leader Connection Question

Sure, but you can apply the argument backwards:

If your fly breaks off you use a better knot. The next thing that gives is you
bloodknot (if you make your own leaders), so you improve that. Ultimately what
you want is a leader system where things break at the
strenght they are supposed to and not at 50-60% of that. Off course at some
point you have improved each
section such that the thing that breaks is your tippet, without having to
improve the butt and line connection.

As long as you know how your leader is designed and that it does what you
wanted, then fine.

Wrt the leader/line connection the nailknot is between 70-80% of leader butt
strength, but
the braid is 100%.

This is getting off the original topic a bit, but --

Do you find that having a loop connection decreases your ability to
turnover the leader? I have troubles turning over my leader, at
times, probably because I'm still working on my casting. I'd heard
that loop-to-loop can cause some difficulty in that area, and for that
reason I've just stuck with the nail knot. But, if all y'all experts
use loop-to-loops, I'd be happy to do so myself, as it seems a lot
easier.

(Um, that brings up one more question: do you just attach your leaders
with the loop the manufacturer has already tied at the end, or do you
tie a better one?)


Because I do find it convenient to have a loop at the end of the line, I
nail-knot a short section of .017" mono to the line, with a perfection loop
at the end.
Costs less than five cents, plus a little bit of my time, and will probably
outlast the fly line.

Besides, nail knots "build character."

"Tim G" wrote in message
om...
This is getting off the original topic a bit, but --

Do you find that having a loop connection decreases your ability to
turnover the leader? I have troubles turning over my leader, at
times, probably because I'm still working on my casting. I'd heard
that loop-to-loop can cause some difficulty in that area, and for that
reason I've just stuck with the nail knot. But, if all y'all experts
use loop-to-loops, I'd be happy to do so myself, as it seems a lot
easier.

(Um, that brings up one more question: do you just attach your leaders
with the loop the manufacturer has already tied at the end, or do you
tie a better one?)

I use a "nail-less" nail knot. Easy to tie, and works well. I went away from
the loop-to-loop connections a number of years ago, for the very reason you
mention. As far I am concerned, the fewer knots, bumps, loops, connections,
and monofilament hangnails the better.

The leaders I use don't have a loop on the end.

Tim Lysyk

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
I think that's both bad advice and misinformation. I've seen
braided loops pull off and a fly line will break long before
a well tied nail knot will fail.

I agree. I have never had a nail knot fail, and properly tied, you
won't even feel it going through the guides.
On *most* new fly lines, I use a nail knot to tie on a butt section
of red Amnesia mono (I think it's about 25 lb test). I use a barrel knot to
tie the leader to the Amnesia; so whenever I need to tie on a new leader,
the butt section (and not the fly line) loses a half inch.

Hi skip,

The old rule of thumb was to have the butt section 2/3 the diameter of the
end of the fly line.

Another approach is to have the butt section at least the same diameter of
the large end of your knotless tapered leader.

I think that a 7 1/2' 2x leader would be fine.

Usually the larger pound test knotless tapered leaders have a larger butt
diameter for turning over bigger flies..

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA

Web site: www.kiene.com


"Skip Summer" wrote in message
om...

Planning on using some mono to connect flyline
to leader, using a nail knot. What pound test
mono should I use? 4 weight flyline.
This rod will be used for bluegills.
Thanks in advance for the help.
Skip

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 19:18:24 -0600, rw
wrote:

I prefer a flyline/leader connection that slips easily through the
guides, presents the least possible wind resistance, turns over the
leader, and lands quietly on the water.

I've found that loop to loop connections go through the guides
smoother than nail knots, and have not found any difference in turning
over the leader or quiet landing. I've never considered the wind
resistance issue.
--
Charlie...

"rw" wrote in message
m...

...I prefer a flyline/leader connection that slips easily through the
guides,

Leader link

presents the least possible wind resistance,

Leader link.

turns over the leader,

Leader link.

and lands quietly on the water.

Leader link.

If I want to change leaders...

Leader link.

Wolfgang
some debates, while easy enough to follow, are nevertheless impossible to
understand.

"Svend Tang-Petersen" wrote in message
...
Our club does a knots and leader seminar once or twice a year. Its held
by a retired NASA
mechanical engineer who brings along a stress testing device. (Imagine a
big spring you can
attach your line too. As you pull on the line the spring expands and
pushes an indicator along a
scale measuring basically force applied (spring: F=k*expansion). When
the knot/line breaks
the indicator stays at the max expansion so you can read at what force
the line broke). He has tested all
sorts of knots, leader systems, leader materials (some have less
breaking strength if you spit on the
leader when you thighten the knot) etc..


How did the "no knot" eyelets fair in these tests, if they were tested. I
used these for years without
problems. Of course my main quarry was panfish and such when I was a kid. I
am just now getting
back into flyfishing after a 20 year absence.

lou

"Lou W" wrote in message
news:HthAc.1340$5t2.450@fed1read01...

"Svend Tang-Petersen" wrote in message
...
Our club does a knots and leader seminar once or twice a year. Its
held
by a retired NASA
mechanical engineer who brings along a stress testing device.
(Imagine a
big spring you can
attach your line too. As you pull on the line the spring expands
and
pushes an indicator along a
scale measuring basically force applied (spring: F=k*expansion).
When
the knot/line breaks
the indicator stays at the max expansion so you can read at what
force
the line broke). He has tested all
sorts of knots, leader systems, leader materials (some have less
breaking strength if you spit on the
leader when you thighten the knot) etc..


How did the "no knot" eyelets fair in these tests, if they were
tested. I
used these for years without
problems. Of course my main quarry was panfish and such when I was a
kid. I
am just now getting
back into flyfishing after a 20 year absence.

Don't know about any formal tests done with them, but there are a
several problems. In the first place, they are a bit of a pain in the
ass to get into the end of the fly line. They are made of
steel.....that makes them heavy. As small as they are, they will sink
the end of the fly line. You still have to knot the leader to the
eye. This necessarily means the leader is tied to a surface
perpendicular to its own length.....a more or less perfect hinge.
Being made of steel, they WILL rust. This results in a pitted surface
that saws through the leader knot pretty efficiently as it hinges.
They rely on barbs, much like those on hooks, to remain fastened to
the line. The barbs have fairly sharp edges which eventually cut the
line.

I've tried them myself and know a number of others who have also. I
don't know anyone who has used them for long.

Wolfgang

Wolfgang wrote:
"rw" wrote in message
m...


...I prefer a flyline/leader connection that slips easily through the
guides,


Leader link

I like Leader Links as well, but I have had them break before. I've only
had them break on one side to I didn't lose my leader or fly but it did
require me to replace the Leader Link.

Russell