Uni-Leaders

http://www.flyfisherman.com/skills/jbleaders/

The above link (from the list that Mike posted in the "Dead
Drift"thread) refers to Gary Borger's Uni-Leader designs. Has anyone
ever tied some up and tried them? The design appeals to me because its
simple (and even more importantly) it would cost me nothing because I
already have the right leader material!

g.c.

Not that I'm cheap or anything...

g.c.

O.K. I *am* cheap.

"George Cleveland" wrote in message
...
http://www.flyfisherman.com/skills/jbleaders/

The above link (from the list that Mike posted in the "Dead
Drift"thread) refers to Gary Borger's Uni-Leader designs. Has anyone
ever tied some up and tried them? The design appeals to me because its
simple (and even more importantly) it would cost me nothing because I
already have the right leader material!

g.c.

Not that I'm cheap or anything...

g.c.

O.K. I *am* cheap.



Yeah, they work OK. If you use some other brands of nylon ( instead of
maxima), you have to change some dimensions, but these are rarely very
critical.

TL
MC

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:10:02 +0200, "Mike Connor"
wrote:


"George Cleveland" wrote in message
.. .
http://www.flyfisherman.com/skills/jbleaders/

The above link (from the list that Mike posted in the "Dead
Drift"thread) refers to Gary Borger's Uni-Leader designs. Has anyone
ever tied some up and tried them? The design appeals to me because its
simple (and even more importantly) it would cost me nothing because I
already have the right leader material!

g.c.

Not that I'm cheap or anything...

g.c.

O.K. I *am* cheap.



Yeah, they work OK. If you use some other brands of nylon ( instead of
maxima), you have to change some dimensions, but these are rarely very
critical.

TL
MC

Mike, by "O.K." do you mean as good as or better than knotless
leaders? If they are only as good as knotless ones I won't bother
expending the effort to whip some up.

g.c.

Not only cheap, but lazy too.

"George Cleveland" wrote in message
...
SNIP
Mike, by "O.K." do you mean as good as or better than knotless
leaders? If they are only as good as knotless ones I won't bother
expending the effort to whip some up.

g.c.

Not only cheap, but lazy too.




OK since you asked. In my opinion they are nowhere near as good or as
convenient as good knotless tapered leaders. Given the choice, I would go
for knotless leaders every time. I have a couple of mods for knotless
leaders which make them far more useful to me. They also last me a lot
longer, so the initial cost is not really a factor.

Over the years, I have tried hundreds of things, some work alright, some are
well nigh useless. In many cases, even trying them was really a waste of
time, but I learned a lot as a result.

I no longer bother experimenting much with leaders at all, as I can do
everything I want with the modified knotless leaders.

The modifications are quite simple as well. I use a needle knotted butt
section directly on my line, if necessary with two or more sections, to
obtain the diameter and taper I require, as the knotless leader butt
sections are usually of too small a diameter. I use a leader ring at the
end of the knotless leader, as I can then change tippet, or droppers etc
etc, with no fuss and bother, without shortening or otherwise damaging the
leader, and very quickly, and without wasting nylon. This is also much more
flexible in use than knotted leaders.

Often, such a leader will last me a whole season, ( even when I fished a
great deal). I merely change the tippet, droppers etc as required. With
three knotless tapered leaders in different configurations, suitably
modified, I can use practically any standard technique, and a few more
besides. I usually carry spares as well of course. But a total of six new
knotless tapers would normally last me a whole season, and often a lot
longer.

Nylon deteriorates, but the weakest point in a leader is always the tippet,
and I change this regularly.

The function is what I require, all the rest may be nice, ( or not!), but
usually superfluous.

TL
MC

"Mike Connor" wrote

The modifications are quite simple as well. I use a needle knotted butt
section directly on my line, if necessary with two or more sections, to
obtain the diameter and taper I require, as the knotless leader butt
sections are usually of too small a diameter. I use a leader ring at the
end of the knotless leader, as I can then change tippet, or droppers etc
etc, with no fuss and bother, without shortening or otherwise damaging the
leader, and very quickly, and without wasting nylon. This is also much
more
flexible in use than knotted leaders.


Mike, a couple questions/ comments

I'm currently using mainly a section or two of maxima, as butt, tied to a
tapered leader with it's butt removed ... I like stiffer butts than what I
find on tapered leaders ... this sounds very much like your, " if necessary
with two or more sections, to
obtain the diameter and taper I require, as the knotless leader butt
sections are usually of too small a diameter" ... is it" or am I reading
your post incorrectly? If correct, then you are really using a kind of
1/2 hand tied leader, like myself, right?

Second ... the phrase "leader ring" is entirely new to me ..... what is this
in American english ? g

In the previous, much diverted, loop thread I said I use loops, and I do not
out of loopophilia, rather ... mainly because its the BUTT not the tippet
that I feel the need to change to match different techniques and conditions.
Again this sounds much like your, "With three knotless tapered leaders in
different configurations, suitably modified, I can use practically any
standard technique, and a few more besides " Are these three mainly BUTT
differences? and you are nail knotting the correct one on as you change
conditions/ techniques even if they change several times a day ?

Larry L wrote:
"Mike Connor" wrote

The modifications are quite simple as well. I use a needle knotted
butt section directly on my line, if necessary with two or more
sections, to obtain the diameter and taper I require, as the
knotless leader butt sections are usually of too small a diameter.
I use a leader ring at the end of the knotless leader, as I can then
change tippet, or droppers etc etc, with no fuss and bother, without
shortening or otherwise damaging the leader, and very quickly, and
without wasting nylon. This is also much more
flexible in use than knotted leaders.

Mike, a couple questions/ comments

I'm currently using mainly a section or two of maxima, as butt, tied
to a tapered leader with it's butt removed ... I like stiffer butts
than what I find on tapered leaders ... this sounds very much like
your, " if necessary with two or more sections, to
obtain the diameter and taper I require, as the knotless leader butt
sections are usually of too small a diameter" ... is it" or am I
reading your post incorrectly? If correct, then you are really
using a kind of 1/2 hand tied leader, like myself, right?

Second ... the phrase "leader ring" is entirely new to me ..... what
is this in American english ? g

In the previous, much diverted, loop thread I said I use loops, and I
do not out of loopophilia, rather ... mainly because its the BUTT
not the tippet that I feel the need to change to match different
techniques and conditions. Again this sounds much like your, "With
three knotless tapered leaders in different configurations, suitably
modified, I can use practically any standard technique, and a few
more besides " Are these three mainly BUTT differences?

After reading your post, i realized the main feature I like better about
hand tied leaders - the stiffer butt section. I've never tried it the
way Mike describes it, but my guess is that I would like the tapered
leader with butt section removed tied onto the stiffer butt section of
Maxima Chameleon (I sometimes use 30 pound / .022 inch, but usually 25
pound / .020 inch). It's just that the blood knot machine is soooooo
much fun, I can't stop! ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

"Larry L" wrote in message
...
SNIP

Mike, a couple questions/ comments

I'm currently using mainly a section or two of maxima, as butt, tied to a
tapered leader with it's butt removed ... I like stiffer butts than what I
find on tapered leaders ... this sounds very much like your, " if
necessary
with two or more sections, to
obtain the diameter and taper I require, as the knotless leader butt
sections are usually of too small a diameter" ... is it" or am I reading
your post incorrectly? If correct, then you are really using a kind of
1/2 hand tied leader, like myself, right?


That is correct.

Maxima leaders are pretty good though, I don´t usually have to change
anything, I merely add a butt section, and a leader ring at the approriate
length.


Second ... the phrase "leader ring" is entirely new to me ..... what is
this
in American english ? g


Leader ring =
http://www.sportfish-flyfishing.co.u...Tyers_964.html

In the previous, much diverted, loop thread I said I use loops, and I do
not
out of loopophilia, rather ... mainly because its the BUTT not the
tippet
that I feel the need to change to match different techniques and
conditions.
Again this sounds much like your, "With three knotless tapered leaders in
different configurations, suitably modified, I can use practically any
standard technique, and a few more besides " Are these three mainly
BUTT
differences? and you are nail knotting the correct one on as you change
conditions/ techniques even if they change several times a day ?



That is also correct. I modify the butts, and on the river I either change
the leaders, or modify the tippets as required.

Invariably the butts will not turn the leader over properly without
modification, and the tippets are not always as one wishes. This is easy and
quick to modify with the leader rings. One may also use "forcing butts", or
build "slack line leaders" and the like, merely by adding the appropriate
tippet to a previously modified leader.

One has less knots than in a knotted leader ( Amazing that! ), and one may
also use any diameter tippet as required, to force extreme turnover, extreme
drop, etc etc, merely by knotting the appropriate tippet to the ring. The
knots are secure, as they are not nylon to nylon, but nylon to ring, and
there is no need to observe the decreasing diameter rule ( Joining nylon of
widely varying diameter with blood, and other knots, is unreliable at best).

Really a very simple, versatile, effective, and cheap system.

TL
MC

Larry L wrote:
"Mike Connor" wrote

The modifications are quite simple as well. I use a needle knotted
butt section directly on my line, if necessary with two or more
sections, to obtain the diameter and taper I require, as the
knotless leader butt sections are usually of too small a diameter.
I use a leader ring at the end of the knotless leader, as I can then
change tippet, or droppers etc etc, with no fuss and bother, without
shortening or otherwise damaging the leader, and very quickly, and
without wasting nylon. This is also much more
flexible in use than knotted leaders.

Mike, a couple questions/ comments

I'm currently using mainly a section or two of maxima, as butt, tied
to a tapered leader with it's butt removed ... I like stiffer butts
than what I find on tapered leaders ... this sounds very much like
your, " if necessary with two or more sections, to
obtain the diameter and taper I require, as the knotless leader butt
sections are usually of too small a diameter" ... is it" or am I
reading your post incorrectly? If correct, then you are really
using a kind of 1/2 hand tied leader, like myself, right?

Second ... the phrase "leader ring" is entirely new to me ..... what
is this in American english ? g

In the previous, much diverted, loop thread I said I use loops, and I
do not out of loopophilia, rather ... mainly because its the BUTT
not the tippet that I feel the need to change to match different
techniques and conditions. Again this sounds much like your, "With
three knotless tapered leaders in different configurations, suitably
modified, I can use practically any standard technique, and a few
more besides " Are these three mainly BUTT differences?

After reading your post, i realized the main feature I like better about
hand tied leaders - the stiffer butt section. I've never tried it the
way Mike describes it, but my guess is that I would like the tapered
leader with butt section removed tied onto the stiffer butt section of
Maxima Chameleon (I sometimes use 30 pound / .022 inch, but usually 25
pound / .020 inch). It's just that the blood knot machine is soooooo
much fun, I can't stop! ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Larry L wrote:
"Mike Connor" wrote

The modifications are quite simple as well. I use a needle knotted
butt section directly on my line, if necessary with two or more
sections, to obtain the diameter and taper I require, as the
knotless leader butt sections are usually of too small a diameter.
I use a leader ring at the end of the knotless leader, as I can then
change tippet, or droppers etc etc, with no fuss and bother, without
shortening or otherwise damaging the leader, and very quickly, and
without wasting nylon. This is also much more
flexible in use than knotted leaders.

Mike, a couple questions/ comments

I'm currently using mainly a section or two of maxima, as butt, tied
to a tapered leader with it's butt removed ... I like stiffer butts
than what I find on tapered leaders ... this sounds very much like
your, " if necessary with two or more sections, to
obtain the diameter and taper I require, as the knotless leader butt
sections are usually of too small a diameter" ... is it" or am I
reading your post incorrectly? If correct, then you are really
using a kind of 1/2 hand tied leader, like myself, right?

Second ... the phrase "leader ring" is entirely new to me ..... what
is this in American english ? g

In the previous, much diverted, loop thread I said I use loops, and I
do not out of loopophilia, rather ... mainly because its the BUTT
not the tippet that I feel the need to change to match different
techniques and conditions. Again this sounds much like your, "With
three knotless tapered leaders in different configurations, suitably
modified, I can use practically any standard technique, and a few
more besides " Are these three mainly BUTT differences?

After reading your post, i realized the main feature I like better about
hand tied leaders - the stiffer butt section. I've never tried it the
way Mike describes it, but my guess is that I would like the tapered
leader with butt section removed tied onto the stiffer butt section of
Maxima Chameleon (I sometimes use 30 pound / .022 inch, but usually 25
pound / .020 inch). It's just that the blood knot machine is soooooo
much fun, I can't stop! ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

"Larry L" wrote in message
...
SNIP

Mike, a couple questions/ comments

I'm currently using mainly a section or two of maxima, as butt, tied to a
tapered leader with it's butt removed ... I like stiffer butts than what I
find on tapered leaders ... this sounds very much like your, " if
necessary
with two or more sections, to
obtain the diameter and taper I require, as the knotless leader butt
sections are usually of too small a diameter" ... is it" or am I reading
your post incorrectly? If correct, then you are really using a kind of
1/2 hand tied leader, like myself, right?


That is correct.

Maxima leaders are pretty good though, I don´t usually have to change
anything, I merely add a butt section, and a leader ring at the approriate
length.


Second ... the phrase "leader ring" is entirely new to me ..... what is
this
in American english ? g


Leader ring =
http://www.sportfish-flyfishing.co.u...Tyers_964.html

In the previous, much diverted, loop thread I said I use loops, and I do
not
out of loopophilia, rather ... mainly because its the BUTT not the
tippet
that I feel the need to change to match different techniques and
conditions.
Again this sounds much like your, "With three knotless tapered leaders in
different configurations, suitably modified, I can use practically any
standard technique, and a few more besides " Are these three mainly
BUTT
differences? and you are nail knotting the correct one on as you change
conditions/ techniques even if they change several times a day ?



That is also correct. I modify the butts, and on the river I either change
the leaders, or modify the tippets as required.

Invariably the butts will not turn the leader over properly without
modification, and the tippets are not always as one wishes. This is easy and
quick to modify with the leader rings. One may also use "forcing butts", or
build "slack line leaders" and the like, merely by adding the appropriate
tippet to a previously modified leader.

One has less knots than in a knotted leader ( Amazing that! ), and one may
also use any diameter tippet as required, to force extreme turnover, extreme
drop, etc etc, merely by knotting the appropriate tippet to the ring. The
knots are secure, as they are not nylon to nylon, but nylon to ring, and
there is no need to observe the decreasing diameter rule ( Joining nylon of
widely varying diameter with blood, and other knots, is unreliable at best).

Really a very simple, versatile, effective, and cheap system.

TL
MC