The Future of Fly Fishing in America ?

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
. com...
http://travel2.nytimes.com/2004/11/2...es/26FISH.html

And what's up with Lefty ? I thought he was one of us !

A reminder that a few years ago some folks on ROFF took offense to my
calling Mr. Kreh a whore. How much do you want to bet as a "charter" member
he didn't pay an initiation fee? But if you got the money and want to play
there, good for those who can.

I received a "private" invite to join a few months ago. Whoever put my name
on that mailing list has my discretionary income significantly overstated.

Wayne

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:31:27 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

http://travel2.nytimes.com/2004/11/2...es/26FISH.html

I like the part where they call $75,000 up front and $5,000
a year a "modest investment."

And what's up with Lefty ? I thought he was one of us !


This makes me understand why poachers are considered folk heoes in
certain places. I bet that 4 lb brown would smoke up real well.

g.c.

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
. com...
http://travel2.nytimes.com/2004/11/2...es/26FISH.html

I like the part where they call $75,000 up front and $5,000
a year a "modest investment."

And what's up with Lefty ? I thought he was one of us !

--
Ken Fortenberry

It's just a preview of the future under the neo-con oligarchy. If anyone
voted for Bush and his gang of thieves you don't have a bitch coming.
Someday when they have privatized the national forest and sold all the best
rivers to Browning and his ilk the western clave will have to held in a city
park in Spokane or somewhere similar. Your children and grandchildren can
set around the fire and tell tales of how good it use to be in grandpas
day.
As I have said before save all those articles on fly-fishing for Carp. The
income that most roffians seem to have will evolve them out or trout
fishing.
If one wants to sample the future now, I think he cold do so by taking a
trout fishing holiday to the UK.

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
. com...
http://travel2.nytimes.com/2004/11/2...es/26FISH.html
I like the part where they call $75,000 up front and $5,000
a year a "modest investment."

You guys weren't paying any ****ing attention were you?

TBone

--
Halfordian Golfer
A cash flow runs through it.

"JR" wrote in message
...
Dave LaCourse wrote in message
...
rw opines:

It's a very serious stain on our national heritage, not unlike slavery.

Really? Why don't you give back your piece of land in Idaho and
California?
That would remove any "stain" you might have. As for me, think I'll
stay
"stained".

Regardless of what one does about it now, you mean you don't think there
IS a stain?

I personally believe some surcharge, say 0.01% (only a dime per $1,000),
should be added to all real estate transactions for, say, the next two
hundred years or so--paid *directly* to the nearest federally recognized
American Indian nation/tribe/reservation.....

....alternatively, one mil from all property taxes paid in the country....

Well, there IS another alternative. If current trends in Indian "gaming"
continue for a few more decades they can just buy it all back.

Wolfgang

JR opines:

Regardless of what one does about it now, you mean you don't think there
IS a stain?

I personally believe some surcharge, say 0.01% (only a dime per $1,000),
should be added to all real estate transactions for, say, the next two
hundred years or so--paid *directly* to the nearest federally recognized
American Indian nation/tribe/reservation.....

....alternatively, one mil from all property taxes paid in the country....

Ridiculous! The native Americans have more than made up for it *in some
places* with their gambling casinos. You and I owe them nothing. How far back
should we go in history to remove the "stain?" Should we pay all the survivors
or their ancestors that lost everything in Tokyo, Yokohama Nakasaki, Hiroshima,
Cologne, Hamburg. Should we pay compensation for every Black man/woman because
their ancestors were once slaves?

Dave LaCourse wrote

JR opines:

I personally believe some surcharge, say 0.01% (only a dime per
$1,000), should be added to all real estate transactions for,
say, the next two hundred years or so--paid *directly* to the
nearest federally recognized American Indian
nation/tribe/reservation.....

....alternatively, one mil from all property taxes paid in the
country....

Ridiculous! The native Americans have more than made up for it *in some
places* with their gambling casinos.

Think a moment about the *actual* value of the land of the U.S. The tens
or even hundreds of millions of dollars from Indian casinos are the
smallest drop in the ocean by comparison. Tens of billions wouldn't
be a big drop.

You and I owe them nothing.

They are "owed" their stolen land. But since "we" stole it fair and
square and all, the most they have a prayer of ever getting--even in a
future, better America--is an honest, universal recognition by Americans
that the land is in fact stolen. The modest proposal above would not
represent a just economic retribution, a "making up for it", but simply a
small, continual reminder that the real wealth is there, that it is
growing, that receivers of stolen property are making fortune after
fortune from it. The tiniest of tiny cuts kicked back to the real owners
doesn't seem unreasonable....

How far back
should we go in history to remove the "stain?"

Well, the Irish monks and Vikings are not still in possession of much
stolen land, so that narrows a bit any search for the beginning of
the relevant wars of aggression, conquest and occupation.

Should we pay all the survivors
or their ancestors that lost everything in Tokyo, Yokohama Nakasaki,
Hiroshima, Cologne, Hamburg.

Apples and oranges. It that war we were not the aggressors, and in
any event, we are no longer occupying Japan or Germany. Maybe we
could just give them commissary and PX privileges...

Should we pay compensation for every Black man/woman because
their ancestors were once slaves?

Oranges and apples. I spent a decade and a half in Africa, and saw
little sign of U.S. occupation. I see no particular reason, however,
to exempt black Americans from the Occupied Land Tax.

JR

JR writes:

Think a moment about the *actual* value of the land of the U.S. The tens
or even hundreds of millions of dollars from Indian casinos are the
smallest drop in the ocean by comparison. Tens of billions wouldn't
be a big drop.

Agreed. But why should we owe them anything?


You and I owe them nothing.

They are "owed" their stolen land. But since "we" stole it fair and
square and all, the most they have a prayer of ever getting--even in a
future, better America--is an honest, universal recognition by Americans
that the land is in fact stolen. The modest proposal above would not
represent a just economic retribution, a "making up for it", but simply a
small, continual reminder that the real wealth is there, that it is
growing, that receivers of stolen property are making fortune after
fortune from it. The tiniest of tiny cuts kicked back to the real owners
doesn't seem unreasonable....

Well, since my fraternal grandmother was 1/2 Abenaki and she married my
grandfather who had "some" Abenaki blood (but was mostly French Canadian), does
that mean I am owed something? I can not see *how* (no pun intended)!


How far back
should we go in history to remove the "stain?"

Well, the Irish monks and Vikings are not still in possession of much
stolen land, so that narrows a bit any search for the beginning of
the relevant wars of aggression, conquest and occupation.

Should we pay all the survivors
or their ancestors that lost everything in Tokyo, Yokohama Nakasaki,
Hiroshima, Cologne, Hamburg.

Apples and oranges. It that war we were not the aggressors, and in
any event, we are no longer occupying Japan or Germany. Maybe we
could just give them commissary and PX privileges...

I sure could use some of them. Kennedy and Kerry have scared all the military
from Massachusetts. Not much in commissary or pxs left. The only advantage,
really, was not paying the Mass taxes on everything. For 15 years or so, I had
to pay income taxes to Taxachusetts on my retirement, while retired Mass
employees did not. They finally changed the law about 6 or so years ago.


Should we pay compensation for every Black man/woman because
their ancestors were once slaves?

Oranges and apples. I spent a decade and a half in Africa, and saw
little sign of U.S. occupation. I see no particular reason, however,
to exempt black Americans from the Occupied Land Tax.

JR


We'll have to agree to disagree, John. I owe nothing to someone who had
absolutely no concept of owning land more than 200 years ago. I haven't
researched it, but I am sure there is lots of land in the hands of native
American's besides the casinos. The two places I have seen where the land is
owned by an Indian tribes (NC near Bryson and some land near Peter Charles'
home) seems pretty good, and in the NC case, they get *lots* of help from the
federal government.

Just remembered another case of Indian land ownership. The Big Horn in
Montana. I believe the lodges and guides on the Big Horn pay something to the
Crow Tribe. All of the land from Hardin to the Wyoming border is Crow
Reservation. Some very nice land. I am sure there are other instances of
Indian ownership of land.

So, you do have my address, right? I expect a monthly check - $0.10 will do
nicely, thankyouverymuch. d;o)

JR writes:

Think a moment about the *actual* value of the land of the U.S. The tens
or even hundreds of millions of dollars from Indian casinos are the
smallest drop in the ocean by comparison. Tens of billions wouldn't
be a big drop.

Agreed. But why should we owe them anything?


You and I owe them nothing.

They are "owed" their stolen land. But since "we" stole it fair and
square and all, the most they have a prayer of ever getting--even in a
future, better America--is an honest, universal recognition by Americans
that the land is in fact stolen. The modest proposal above would not
represent a just economic retribution, a "making up for it", but simply a
small, continual reminder that the real wealth is there, that it is
growing, that receivers of stolen property are making fortune after
fortune from it. The tiniest of tiny cuts kicked back to the real owners
doesn't seem unreasonable....

Well, since my fraternal grandmother was 1/2 Abenaki and she married my
grandfather who had "some" Abenaki blood (but was mostly French Canadian), does
that mean I am owed something? I can not see *how* (no pun intended)!


How far back
should we go in history to remove the "stain?"

Well, the Irish monks and Vikings are not still in possession of much
stolen land, so that narrows a bit any search for the beginning of
the relevant wars of aggression, conquest and occupation.

Should we pay all the survivors
or their ancestors that lost everything in Tokyo, Yokohama Nakasaki,
Hiroshima, Cologne, Hamburg.

Apples and oranges. It that war we were not the aggressors, and in
any event, we are no longer occupying Japan or Germany. Maybe we
could just give them commissary and PX privileges...

I sure could use some of them. Kennedy and Kerry have scared all the military
from Massachusetts. Not much in commissary or pxs left. The only advantage,
really, was not paying the Mass taxes on everything. For 15 years or so, I had
to pay income taxes to Taxachusetts on my retirement, while retired Mass
employees did not. They finally changed the law about 6 or so years ago.


Should we pay compensation for every Black man/woman because
their ancestors were once slaves?

Oranges and apples. I spent a decade and a half in Africa, and saw
little sign of U.S. occupation. I see no particular reason, however,
to exempt black Americans from the Occupied Land Tax.

JR


We'll have to agree to disagree, John. I owe nothing to someone who had
absolutely no concept of owning land more than 200 years ago. I haven't
researched it, but I am sure there is lots of land in the hands of native
American's besides the casinos. The two places I have seen where the land is
owned by an Indian tribes (NC near Bryson and some land near Peter Charles'
home) seems pretty good, and in the NC case, they get *lots* of help from the
federal government.

Just remembered another case of Indian land ownership. The Big Horn in
Montana. I believe the lodges and guides on the Big Horn pay something to the
Crow Tribe. All of the land from Hardin to the Wyoming border is Crow
Reservation. Some very nice land. I am sure there are other instances of
Indian ownership of land.

So, you do have my address, right? I expect a monthly check - $0.10 will do
nicely, thankyouverymuch. d;o)

JR writes:

Think a moment about the *actual* value of the land of the U.S. The tens
or even hundreds of millions of dollars from Indian casinos are the
smallest drop in the ocean by comparison. Tens of billions wouldn't
be a big drop.

Agreed. But why should we owe them anything?


You and I owe them nothing.

They are "owed" their stolen land. But since "we" stole it fair and
square and all, the most they have a prayer of ever getting--even in a
future, better America--is an honest, universal recognition by Americans
that the land is in fact stolen. The modest proposal above would not
represent a just economic retribution, a "making up for it", but simply a
small, continual reminder that the real wealth is there, that it is
growing, that receivers of stolen property are making fortune after
fortune from it. The tiniest of tiny cuts kicked back to the real owners
doesn't seem unreasonable....

Well, since my fraternal grandmother was 1/2 Abenaki and she married my
grandfather who had "some" Abenaki blood (but was mostly French Canadian), does
that mean I am owed something? I can not see *how* (no pun intended)!


How far back
should we go in history to remove the "stain?"

Well, the Irish monks and Vikings are not still in possession of much
stolen land, so that narrows a bit any search for the beginning of
the relevant wars of aggression, conquest and occupation.

Should we pay all the survivors
or their ancestors that lost everything in Tokyo, Yokohama Nakasaki,
Hiroshima, Cologne, Hamburg.

Apples and oranges. It that war we were not the aggressors, and in
any event, we are no longer occupying Japan or Germany. Maybe we
could just give them commissary and PX privileges...

I sure could use some of them. Kennedy and Kerry have scared all the military
from Massachusetts. Not much in commissary or pxs left. The only advantage,
really, was not paying the Mass taxes on everything. For 15 years or so, I had
to pay income taxes to Taxachusetts on my retirement, while retired Mass
employees did not. They finally changed the law about 6 or so years ago.


Should we pay compensation for every Black man/woman because
their ancestors were once slaves?

Oranges and apples. I spent a decade and a half in Africa, and saw
little sign of U.S. occupation. I see no particular reason, however,
to exempt black Americans from the Occupied Land Tax.

JR


We'll have to agree to disagree, John. I owe nothing to someone who had
absolutely no concept of owning land more than 200 years ago. I haven't
researched it, but I am sure there is lots of land in the hands of native
American's besides the casinos. The two places I have seen where the land is
owned by an Indian tribes (NC near Bryson and some land near Peter Charles'
home) seems pretty good, and in the NC case, they get *lots* of help from the
federal government.

Just remembered another case of Indian land ownership. The Big Horn in
Montana. I believe the lodges and guides on the Big Horn pay something to the
Crow Tribe. All of the land from Hardin to the Wyoming border is Crow
Reservation. Some very nice land. I am sure there are other instances of
Indian ownership of land.

So, you do have my address, right? I expect a monthly check - $0.10 will do
nicely, thankyouverymuch. d;o)