How Much Responsibility...

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 12:22:09 -0600, "Wolfgang"
wrote:


"George Cleveland" wrote in message
.. .


Correction concerning Richards post:

Rat Terrier

http://fishskicanoe.tripod.com/geopi...dosquirrel.jpg

Wolfgang

http://fishskicanoe.tripod.com/geopi...2_wolfg_champs

No doubt about it.....I am MUCH taller.

Wolfgang
and "hi" to frodo.

I just gave him a scratch under the collar for you. This has the
strange effect of seeming to make half the bones of his body soften up
and his face assuming a blissed out grin that I usually associate with
smokers finally getting to take a drag off a cigarette after being
denied said pleasure for a lengthy period of time. And so therefore,
Frodo says thanks and "hi" back at ya.


g.c.

In article ,
says...
Thus, trespass is illegal
everywhere.....by definition.....and (somewhat trivially, to be sure) "No
Trespassing" signs are funny for purely logical and linguistic reasons.


My favorites are the signs that say "No Trespassing
Without Permission."

Kevin

--
reply to:
kevin dot vang at minotstatu dot edu

In article ,
says...
Thus, trespass is illegal
everywhere.....by definition.....and (somewhat trivially, to be sure) "No
Trespassing" signs are funny for purely logical and linguistic reasons.


My favorites are the signs that say "No Trespassing
Without Permission."

Kevin

--
reply to:
kevin dot vang at minotstatu dot edu

It seems to this Europeanized Irish/American that a bit of flexibility
is called for here. I get a bit crochety when Americans express
blanket horror at the 'European' or 'English' habit of charging for
fishing.

I've never fished the classic NY streams because I'd heard bad stories
of too many people fishing there. Good rivers near big cities are
always going to be overcrowded unless they're privately managed. That's
the way it is. Wolfgang mentioned the river Itchen as one of the dream
fishing locations recently. It's a stunning stream, less than an hour
from then centre of London, which is a massive sprawling city in a
tiny, overcrowded island.

I was fishing on the Itchen last week. In a day I saw only one other
fisherman, and that briefly. Apart from that I was alone with the ducks
and the swans and the fish. I killed a couple of grayling, which I
ate for supper, on a Queen of the Waters, fished dry. I don't remember
how many I released. This was on private waters, where I can fish any
day from September to Christmas for an annual subscription of a hundred
dollars. Okay, I had to wait in a queue to get onto the list. The fact
that this water is private seems okay to me, because the alternative is
horrible.

But there's loads of land, and loads of rivers in America. Jesus,
otherwise, what's the point of the place? I do applaud your effort to
keep things sane. About ten years ago, I'm delighted to say (I rarely
praise my own country) the Irish government tried to impose the need
for a licence to fish for trout in Ireland. The boatmen ( a boat is
essential for most serious trout fishing in Ireland ) were outraged at
the alteration of the traditional way of doing things, and went on
strike, which seemed absurd at first. But in the end the Irish
government had to back down.

So this printed story saddened me. I remember many years ago being
caught fishing illegally on the (Irish) river Reelin, which,
unbeknownst to me at the time, was one of the most prolific salmon
rivers in the British Isles. The guy who caught me (fishing in fact for
trout, with the same 9ft 6/7 rod that I've subsequently used for salmon
on the same river) just smiled, told me I was poaching, told me where I
could buy a ticket in the future, and advised me to move half a mile
upstream to a better pool. I didn't catch any salmon that day, but I
came back other years, paid my licence (fifteen or so dollars a day)
and have had wonderful fishing days there since.

Americans are good at putting on pressure till it hurts. I hope
y'all'll do just that.

Lazarus

--
Remover the rock from the email address

It seems to this Europeanized Irish/American that a bit of flexibility
is called for here. I get a bit crochety when Americans express
blanket horror at the 'European' or 'English' habit of charging for
fishing.

I've never fished the classic NY streams because I'd heard bad stories
of too many people fishing there. Good rivers near big cities are
always going to be overcrowded unless they're privately managed. That's
the way it is. Wolfgang mentioned the river Itchen as one of the dream
fishing locations recently. It's a stunning stream, less than an hour
from then centre of London, which is a massive sprawling city in a
tiny, overcrowded island.

I was fishing on the Itchen last week. In a day I saw only one other
fisherman, and that briefly. Apart from that I was alone with the ducks
and the swans and the fish. I killed a couple of grayling, which I
ate for supper, on a Queen of the Waters, fished dry. I don't remember
how many I released. This was on private waters, where I can fish any
day from September to Christmas for an annual subscription of a hundred
dollars. Okay, I had to wait in a queue to get onto the list. The fact
that this water is private seems okay to me, because the alternative is
horrible.

But there's loads of land, and loads of rivers in America. Jesus,
otherwise, what's the point of the place? I do applaud your effort to
keep things sane. About ten years ago, I'm delighted to say (I rarely
praise my own country) the Irish government tried to impose the need
for a licence to fish for trout in Ireland. The boatmen ( a boat is
essential for most serious trout fishing in Ireland ) were outraged at
the alteration of the traditional way of doing things, and went on
strike, which seemed absurd at first. But in the end the Irish
government had to back down.

So this printed story saddened me. I remember many years ago being
caught fishing illegally on the (Irish) river Reelin, which,
unbeknownst to me at the time, was one of the most prolific salmon
rivers in the British Isles. The guy who caught me (fishing in fact for
trout, with the same 9ft 6/7 rod that I've subsequently used for salmon
on the same river) just smiled, told me I was poaching, told me where I
could buy a ticket in the future, and advised me to move half a mile
upstream to a better pool. I didn't catch any salmon that day, but I
came back other years, paid my licence (fifteen or so dollars a day)
and have had wonderful fishing days there since.

Americans are good at putting on pressure till it hurts. I hope
y'all'll do just that.

Lazarus

--
Remover the rock from the email address

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...
snip

Odd, isn't it, that the more land one has the more jealously one tends to
guard
it?
snip

Wolfgang

While that axiom is largely true in relatively populated areas, and for
people who have a largely urban or suburban background but have recently
acquired large tracts of rural land, it is often not the case with those who
have long tenure working the land in relatively unpopulated areas. I am
familiar with many landowners of large tracts (500 -1000+ac.), who, as long
as public visitors are respectful of the land and the owners, will allow the
public to recreate on their land. Often all that is required is asking
permission, letting the owner know when you are on the property, and finding
out if there are any areas/activities/conditions/times that the owner wants
you to avoid or take special care with. This landowner attitude is
certainly far from universal, and the number holding it seems to be
shrinking all the time, but it is still fairly common. However, almost
invariably when these same lands are acquired by someone without a rural
background, the lands are locked up tighter than a drum. Also owners of
20-160ac. seem to guard their lands much more jealously than many of the
long term owners of large properties.

Another problem trespass in the west is that the combination of large
tracts of public lands (often with unmarked boundaries - once you get away
from roads), many areas with poor or totally absent surveys, and - in flat
featureless areas- no good way (short of GPS) to ascertain one's exact
location, determining ( in the absence of clearly marked boundaries) whether
one has trespassed is often more than mildly problematic.

In Oregon, the law is structured such that, if the land is enclosed
(fenced), or cultivated, or marked with signs or red paint, one should
assume that it is private land in the absence of firm knowledge to the
contrary. However, because of the factors noted in the above paragraph,
even many landowners are often not exactly clear of the precise location of
their boundaries. I have seen numerous cases where the private landowners
have fenced in lands that were open to the public (publicly owned lands or
other private lands where public use was allowed) or posted "No
Trespassing" signs on such lands. While some of this is done by those who
had full knowledge that the land was open to the public, and were simply
doing it to keep others from using adjacent land that they did not own, many
simply don't know the exact location of their boundaries.


--
Bob Weinberger
La, Grande, OR

place a dot between bobs and stuff and remove invalid to send email




..

"Kevin Vang" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
Thus, trespass is illegal
everywhere.....by definition.....and (somewhat trivially, to be sure) "No
Trespassing" signs are funny for purely logical and linguistic reasons.


My favorites are the signs that say "No Trespassing
Without Permission."

Yep, those are a real hoot.

Wolfgang
who has on occasion spent the better part of a day and a night staring at
one of those, lost in a slack-jawed metaphysical murk of recursion,
iteration, self-referential existentialism, psychic angst, dithering
indecision, etc.

"Kevin Vang" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
Thus, trespass is illegal
everywhere.....by definition.....and (somewhat trivially, to be sure) "No
Trespassing" signs are funny for purely logical and linguistic reasons.


My favorites are the signs that say "No Trespassing
Without Permission."

Yep, those are a real hoot.

Wolfgang
who has on occasion spent the better part of a day and a night staring at
one of those, lost in a slack-jawed metaphysical murk of recursion,
iteration, self-referential existentialism, psychic angst, dithering
indecision, etc.

"Kevin Vang" wrote


My favorites are the signs that say "No Trespassing
Without Permission."


On my place they say "No Trespassing ... Survivors Will be Prosecuted"

g

I once had a pheasant hunter with his young (12 ?) son jump the back fence
( there's no road back there, but, a private irrigation district easement,
posted, leads to the back of the place and many people use it to walk their
dogs and early morning jogs and such, with my blessing ). I grabbed a
shotgun, shells much heavier than he likely was using, and a mean looking
Chesapeake Bay retriever and went to tell him he was trespassing.

I started with "This is private property and it's posted. But, I live in
that house right over there and you can get there from where you are parked
via Pleasant Valley Rd. Come around front, ask permission, and I'll
gladly let you and your boy hunt, but you are not free to just jump the
fence."

His answer was a string of swear words that would shock an ironworker and I
watched as he continued to rant as he walked back down the easement, no
doubt off to teach his son some more about being a "sportsman" on someone
else's property.

"Kevin Vang" wrote


My favorites are the signs that say "No Trespassing
Without Permission."


On my place they say "No Trespassing ... Survivors Will be Prosecuted"

g

I once had a pheasant hunter with his young (12 ?) son jump the back fence
( there's no road back there, but, a private irrigation district easement,
posted, leads to the back of the place and many people use it to walk their
dogs and early morning jogs and such, with my blessing ). I grabbed a
shotgun, shells much heavier than he likely was using, and a mean looking
Chesapeake Bay retriever and went to tell him he was trespassing.

I started with "This is private property and it's posted. But, I live in
that house right over there and you can get there from where you are parked
via Pleasant Valley Rd. Come around front, ask permission, and I'll
gladly let you and your boy hunt, but you are not free to just jump the
fence."

His answer was a string of swear words that would shock an ironworker and I
watched as he continued to rant as he walked back down the easement, no
doubt off to teach his son some more about being a "sportsman" on someone
else's property.