name that boat

thanks for the thoughts and grins...interesting stuff... y'all obviously
are descendants of "goliards."

one thing for sure, as it's an escape from my work, the boat's name will
not be a reminder of that work... so all the law-related stuff won't be
used. sorry i didn't indicate that at the outset. i liked several
suggestions, but either the difficulty in pronunciation (that cherokee
stuff was great, bob) or rachel quickly vetoed them.

in her usual incisive manner, rachel suggested "hamartia"...but, i'm
thinking i'd have a bit of trouble in the anticipated calls to the coast
guard or sea tow, not to mention among my fellow redneckians, and, well,
there is my superstitious nature.

jeff (still searching)

Pro Bono



Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 12:12:38 -0400, Jeff Miller
wrote:


thanks for the thoughts and grins...interesting stuff... y'all obviously
are descendants of "goliards."

Well, I don't about the rest of the y'all in question, but I, for one,
would never even consider some fru-fru Yankee music school for a REAL
education...even a cheap one...

one thing for sure, as it's an escape from my work, the boat's name will
not be a reminder of that work... so all the law-related stuff won't be
used. sorry i didn't indicate that at the outset. i liked several
suggestions, but either the difficulty in pronunciation (that cherokee
stuff was great, bob) or rachel quickly vetoed them.

Good. People with career-related boat names look silly...or worse,
nouveau riche...

in her usual incisive manner, rachel suggested "hamartia"...but, i'm
thinking i'd have a bit of trouble in the anticipated calls to the coast
guard or sea tow, not to mention among my fellow redneckians, and, well,
there is my superstitious nature.

jeff (still searching)

OK, since my first suggestion went unappreciated, and given the apparent
concern for potential, er, situations, howsabout "THIS SIDE UP!" and an
arrow pointing to the gunwale painted upside down on the transom and
both sides?

H _T_ H,
R

"Top-Poster"

Jeff Miller wrote:

thanks for the thoughts and grins...interesting stuff... y'all obviously
are descendants of "goliards."

one thing for sure, as it's an escape from my work, the boat's name will
not be a reminder of that work... so all the law-related stuff won't be
used. sorry i didn't indicate that at the outset. i liked several
suggestions, but either the difficulty in pronunciation (that cherokee
stuff was great, bob) or rachel quickly vetoed them.

in her usual incisive manner, rachel suggested "hamartia"...but, i'm
thinking i'd have a bit of trouble in the anticipated calls to the coast
guard or sea tow, not to mention among my fellow redneckians, and, well,
there is my superstitious nature.

jeff (still searching)

"Jeff Miller" wrote in message
news:MJ1Oe.654$rp.616@lakeread08...
//snip//
in her usual incisive manner, rachel suggested "hamartia"...but, i'm
thinking i'd have a bit of trouble in the anticipated calls to the coast
guard or sea tow, not to mention among my fellow redneckians, and, well,
there is my superstitious nature.


Exie Sopwith
Arby Mulligan

Bob Patton wrote:

"Jeff Miller" wrote in message
news:MJ1Oe.654$rp.616@lakeread08...
//snip//

in her usual incisive manner, rachel suggested "hamartia"...but, i'm
thinking i'd have a bit of trouble in the anticipated calls to the coast
guard or sea tow, not to mention among my fellow redneckians, and, well,
there is my superstitious nature.



Exie Sopwith
Arby Mulligan







Rachel now suggests "Moken"...here's the story, played on 60 minutes
tonight:

"They are the sea gypsies of the Andaman Sea, or as they call
themselves, the Moken.

They’ve lived for hundreds of years on the islands off the coast of
Thailand and Burma. They are, of all the peoples of the world, among the
least touched by modern civilization. And they miraculously survived the
tsunami because they knew it was coming. It’s their intimacy with the
sea that saved the Moken. They’re born on the sea, live on the sea, die
on the sea. They know its moods and motions better than any marine
biologist. They’re nomads, constantly moving from island to island,
living more than six months a year on their boats.

At low tide, they collect sea cucumbers and catch eels. At high tide,
they dive for shellfish. They’ve been living this way for so many
generations that they’ve become virtually amphibious.

Kids learn to swim before they can walk. Underwater, they can see twice
as clearly as the rest of us, and by lowering their heart rate, can stay
underwater twice as long. They are truly sea urchins.

60 Minutes discovered a Moken village on an island two hours by
speedboat from the coast of Thailand. It had become something of an
exotic tourist Mecca before the tsunami.

A Bangkok movie star and amateur photographer named Aun was here on Dec.
26, 2004, taking pictures of Moken village life, when someone noticed
the sea receding into the distance.

Aun's pictures showed the Moken on the beach crying. Did she have any
idea why they were crying? "I feel like they know what bad will happen,"
says Aun.

Her pictures also show the Moken fleeing towards higher ground long
before the first wave struck. Aun pointed out how high the water first
came. And that was just the first wave. The worst was yet to come, and
the Moken knew because of signs from the sea.

It wasn’t only the sea that was acting strangely. It was the animals,
too. On the mainland, elephants started stampeding toward higher ground.
Off Thailand’s coast, divers noticed dozens of dolphins swimming for
deeper water. And on these islands, the cicadas, which are usually so
loud, suddenly went silent.

Saleh Kalathalay, a skilled spear-fisherman who was on a different part
of the island, also noticed the silence. He ran around warning everyone.
Did they believe him?

"The young people called me a liar. I said, 'We’ve told the story of the
wave since the old times,' but none of the kids believed me," says
Kalathalay.

"I grabbed my daughter by the hand and said, 'Child, get out of here, or
you’ll die!' She said, 'You’re a liar, father, you’re drunk.' I hadn’t
had a drop to drink."

Kalathalay brought the skeptics to the water’s edge, where they, too,
saw the signs. Eventually, everyone, the Moken and the tourists, climbed
to higher ground and were saved. But there's nothing left in the village.

Why does Kalathalay think the tsunami happened? "The wave is created by
the spirit of the sea," says Kalathalay. "The Big Wave had not eaten
anyone for a long time, and it wanted to taste them again."

Do the Moken consider themselves unlucky because their village was
destroyed, or lucky because they survived?

"I think they just take it as a matter of fact," says Dr. Narumon
Hinshiranan, an anthropologist, and one of the very few experts who
speak the Moken language.

How did the Moken know that the tsunami was coming? "The water receded
very fast and one wave, one small wave, came so they recognized that
this is not ordinary," says Hinshiranan. "And then they have this kind
of legend that passed from generations to generations about seven waves."

It’s a legend recited around campfires, bearing an astonishing
resemblance to what actually happened on Dec. 26, 2004.

They call it the Laboon, the "wave that eats people," and it’s brought
on by the angry spirits of the ancestors. Before it comes, the sea
recedes. Then the waters flood the earth, destroy it, and make it clean
again.

"So basically, the tsunami myth is that the world is reborn after it is
covered with water," says Simon. "So, we're back to the Biblical flood."

"Yes," says French anthropologist Jacques Ivanoff, the world’s foremost
authority on the Moken. He's been living with them on and off for more
than 20 years. 60 Minutes joined him on a voyage of discovery.

Ivanoff was going to the Moken islands off the coast of Burma, a
military dictatorship closed to the outside world. There had been no
news of what had happened to these Moken since the tsunami.

"We knew that the Moken survived the tsunami, the Moken in Thailand
survived," says Simon. "We really don’t know for sure what happened in
Burma, do we?"

"Nobody can know, because no information gets out of Burma," says
Ivanoff. "Everybody has to say nothing happened. That means the tsunami
stopped at the border – that’s it, finished, end of the story."

Ivanoff’s boat, a converted cargo ship called the Moken Queen, could
have sailed right off the pages of Joseph Conrad. The captain was called
“Long Ear,” and the crew was Burmese. The deck was shrouded in nets to
keep out malarial mosquitoes.

All sense of time of the 21st century seemed to evaporate into the
tropical night air as the boat probed farther and farther into what
often seemed to be the heart of darkness.

"You are outside of everywhere. You are nowhere, in fact," says Ivanoff.

At dawn, two Moken boats came out of nowhere. The Moken on the two boats
hadn’t seen each other since the tsunami and started exchanging tales of
survival. While the Moken off Thailand had been on dry ground, these
Moken in Burmese waters had been in their boats, at sea.

"The water had such unbelievable strength," said one Moken man. "It was
swirling like a whirlpool as if it was boiling and coming from the
depths of the earth."

Like their Thai cousins, these Moken also knew what to do. Since they
were at sea, they made for deeper water and were spared. Others, like
some Burmese fishermen near them, were not.

"How come they knew something was wrong, and the Burmese fishermen did
not?" Simon asked the Moken man. "They weren’t Burmese businessmen; they
were fishermen. They should know the sea, too."

"They were collecting squid, they were not looking at anything. They saw
nothing, they looked at nothing. They don’t know how to look," says the
Moken man. "Suddenly, everything rose up, their boats were thrown up in
the air. The violence was unbelievable."

A family of Moken was living on a boat on the beach when the Moken Queen
got to shore. But during the tsunami, they had also been at sea. Simon
started by introducing himself.

Simon: My name is Bob.

Moken man: Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob.

We had come here to find out whether these people had survived the
tsunami. We wound up captivated by their culture. We had never seen
anything like it.

The Moken don't know how old they are. Ivanoff says this is because,
"Time is not the same concept as we have. You can't say for instance,
'When.' It doesn't exist in Moken language."

And Ivanoff says "when" is not the only word missing from the Moken
language. "Want" is another. "Yes, you use it very often," says Ivanoff.
"Take that out of your language and you see how often you use it. 'I
want this, I want that.'"

There is also no word for "take." "You take something," says Ivanoff.
"You give or you take. You don't want."

The fact is, the Moken want very little. What they don’t want is to
accumulate anything. Baggage is not good for a nomadic people. It ties
you down. They have no notion and no desire for wealth.

Is there any other word missing from the Moken language? "No goodbye, no
hello," says Ivanoff. "That's quite difficult. Imagine after one year,
you live with them, and then you go. You go. That’s it. Finish."

And, there are no greetings. While 60 Minutes was on a Thai Moken
island, a flotilla from Burma dropped by. They didn’t seem terribly
excited by this. But visits from relatives, and they’re all relatives,
happen all the time. And since there is no notion of time, it doesn’t
matter if the last visit was a week ago or five years ago. There’s just
a constant commingling. And, in the wake of the tsunami, they’re all
busy now, rebuilding their boats and their lives.

"What I saw since the tsunami is yes, they take this opportunity to make
the strong group stronger," says Ivanoff to Simon. "For instance, you
are sitting on his boat."

"Is it OK with him?" asks Simon.

"No problem," says Ivanoff. "He wanted to work a bit on the boat, but…"

"But he doesn't mind waiting," asks Simon.

"Of course not," says Ivanoff, who says this is not a problem.

But the Moken do have problems. The Burmese have turned some of their
islands into military bases. And the Thais are having them make trinkets
for tourists, a trend that could ultimately threaten their way of life
far more than any number of tsunamis.

But the Moken don’t seem terribly worried by all this. Perhaps that’s
because "worry" is just one more of those words that don’t exist in
their language."


Quoted from the CBS website -
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in782658.shtml

No notion of time, no words for "want", "when", "worry", "hello",
"goodbye", no concept of aging, in tune with the sea, fishermen...

damn...sounds perfect to me... what do you folks think?

jeff

Jeff Miller wrote:

thanks for the thoughts and grins...interesting stuff... y'all obviously
are descendants of "goliards."

one thing for sure, as it's an escape from my work, the boat's name will
not be a reminder of that work... so all the law-related stuff won't be
used. sorry i didn't indicate that at the outset. i liked several
suggestions, but either the difficulty in pronunciation (that cherokee
stuff was great, bob) or rachel quickly vetoed them.

in her usual incisive manner, rachel suggested "hamartia"...but, i'm
thinking i'd have a bit of trouble in the anticipated calls to the coast
guard or sea tow, not to mention among my fellow redneckians, and, well,
there is my superstitious nature.

jeff (still searching)

What about,
Seack Hunt?

hth ; )
gary

"Jeff Miller" wrote in message
news:Gm9Oe.678$rp.383@lakeread08...
//snip//
Quoted from the CBS website -
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in782658.shtml

No notion of time, no words for "want", "when", "worry", "hello",
"goodbye", no concept of aging, in tune with the sea, fishermen...

damn...sounds perfect to me... what do you folks think?

Hmmmmm. Sounds really interesting - especially if more research confirms
what CBS reported.

I still think "Rachel" is best.

Bob

"Jeff Miller" wrote in message
news:Gm9Oe.678$rp.383@lakeread08...
...Moken...

No notion of time, no words for "want", "when", "worry", "hello",
"goodbye", no concept of aging, in tune with the sea, fishermen...

damn...sounds perfect to me... what do you folks think?

Sounds good to me.......despite the certainty that it's horse****.....except
(probably) the "in tune with the sea" part. The Anthros (God bless their
quaint, squinty tunnel vision) virtually never get it right. It's either
Rousseau's "noble savage" (Dryden's, actually, if we prefer the
systematists' insistence that priority counts for something:

"I am as free as Nature first made man,
Ere the base laws of servitude began,
When wild in woods the noble savage ran."* )

or Hobbes's:

"...it is manifest, that during the time men live without a common power to
keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and
such a war as is of every man against every man....no arts; no letters; no
society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent
death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."**

Either way, tokin' with the Moken is doubtless as good a way to spend the
day as any.

Wolfgang
who ain't jokin'.

*John Dryden, "The Conquest of Granada", 1670.
**Thomas Hobbes, "Leviathan", 1651.

Wolfgang wrote:

"Jeff Miller" wrote in message
news:Gm9Oe.678$rp.383@lakeread08...

...Moken...


No notion of time, no words for "want", "when", "worry", "hello",
"goodbye", no concept of aging, in tune with the sea, fishermen...

damn...sounds perfect to me... what do you folks think?


Sounds good to me.......despite the certainty that it's horse****.....except
(probably) the "in tune with the sea" part. The Anthros (God bless their
quaint, squinty tunnel vision) virtually never get it right. It's either
Rousseau's "noble savage" (Dryden's, actually, if we prefer the
systematists' insistence that priority counts for something:

"I am as free as Nature first made man,
Ere the base laws of servitude began,
When wild in woods the noble savage ran."* )

or Hobbes's:

"...it is manifest, that during the time men live without a common power to
keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and
such a war as is of every man against every man....no arts; no letters; no
society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent
death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."**

Either way, tokin' with the Moken is doubtless as good a way to spend the
day as any.

Wolfgang
who ain't jokin'.

*John Dryden, "The Conquest of Granada", 1670.
**Thomas Hobbes, "Leviathan", 1651.


ok...but you tell rachel...g

jeff