Cork filler (need to buy or make)

wrote:

I suspect one would find that using a Dutchman (and the name might give
a clue as to it making a "defect into a feature" versus simply being
frugal and better than wasting material/furniture/etc.) in a rod handle
to be more trouble than it'd be worth, even if it worked. I doubt it
would. If the handle is losing multiple "chunks," the cork is
deteriorating (and/or one of the hinkier pressed cork types) and such a
patch attempt is likely to do more damage by taking out more cork when
it fails.

IIRC, the OP mentioned a "divot", which seemed like a likely
candidate for a patch rather than a sanding dust filler. I honestly
don't see any reason why it shouldn't work. You're not gluing it to the
surrounding cork.

There are multiple grades of cork used for handles, good and not-so-good
variations of "pressed" cork, and cork tape. Assuming the most common
type, rings, and if the divot were large enough to make use of a "piece
patch" technique, it would be time to replace at least one ring, if not
the whole handle. The replacement of the cork itself is not hard at
all. The shaping can be a chore if done completely by hand, but power
tools can speed things up and access to a lathe can make things pretty
much a breeze. Depending on the rod, the amount of "deconstruction"
necessary for a complete replacement could be significant. If Tom had
asked for opinions on that, I'd have happily offered what I could. As
he asked a pointed question that had a single answer, I provided it.

Yes, you and the rest of ROFF. :-) I also offered what seemed to
me to be a fairly straightforward process for repairing a "divot". It
may seem like more trouble than it's worth to you, but I *like* fitting
inlays in wood. It's certainly more fun than creating a mess of sanding
dust and trying to form a paste of that and glue to fill a void.

I thought it might also work with cork.

YMODV.

If you have access in your library to "Advanced Custom Rod Building" by
Clemens, look on page 104, "Filling the cork." Also, "A Master's Guide
to Building a Bamboo Fly Rod" by Garrison and Carmichael, page 216-217,
"Cleaning and Repairing the Cork Grip." I haven't bothered to check
other such references, but I suspect they would detail the same standard
technique for filling minor defects.

Thanks for the info. My library doesn't have those books, but I'll
make a note of them.


Chuck Vance (who has one early 80's-vintage Fenwick HMG that
needs some serious cork work done; probably more like the ring
replacement you described above, as cockroaches or rats or *something*
got into it in storage and ate away huge pieces of the grip)

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:05:21 -0600, Conan The Librarian
wrote:

wrote:

I suspect one would find that using a Dutchman (and the name might give
a clue as to it making a "defect into a feature" versus simply being
frugal and better than wasting material/furniture/etc.) in a rod handle
to be more trouble than it'd be worth, even if it worked. I doubt it
would. If the handle is losing multiple "chunks," the cork is
deteriorating (and/or one of the hinkier pressed cork types) and such a
patch attempt is likely to do more damage by taking out more cork when
it fails.

IIRC, the OP mentioned a "divot", which seemed like a likely
candidate for a patch rather than a sanding dust filler. I honestly
don't see any reason why it shouldn't work.

You're not gluing it to the surrounding cork.

Then I may have misunderstood what you meant as to where you were
suggesting gluing the new piece/"Dutchman" - ???

There are multiple grades of cork used for handles, good and not-so-good
variations of "pressed" cork, and cork tape. Assuming the most common
type, rings, and if the divot were large enough to make use of a "piece
patch" technique, it would be time to replace at least one ring, if not
the whole handle. The replacement of the cork itself is not hard at
all. The shaping can be a chore if done completely by hand, but power
tools can speed things up and access to a lathe can make things pretty
much a breeze. Depending on the rod, the amount of "deconstruction"
necessary for a complete replacement could be significant. If Tom had
asked for opinions on that, I'd have happily offered what I could. As
he asked a pointed question that had a single answer, I provided it.

Yes, you and the rest of ROFF. :-) I also offered what seemed to
me to be a fairly straightforward process for repairing a "divot". It
may seem like more trouble than it's worth to you, but I *like* fitting
inlays in wood. It's certainly more fun than creating a mess of sanding
dust and trying to form a paste of that and glue to fill a void.

I thought it might also work with cork.

Heck, I've no problem with "it might work." I just think that the odds
are heavily against it working, and it not working would probably cause
more damage. Consider the structure of the materials involved as well
as likely uses of such a inlay (or parquetry, marquetry) piece versus
that of a cork fly rod handle. If a "piece patch" is what is called
for, the split ring method Mike Connor first outlined is what I'd
suggest.

YMODV.

As might yours, and there's nothing wrong with that...IMO, anyway.

If you have access in your library to "Advanced Custom Rod Building" by
Clemens, look on page 104, "Filling the cork." Also, "A Master's Guide
to Building a Bamboo Fly Rod" by Garrison and Carmichael, page 216-217,
"Cleaning and Repairing the Cork Grip." I haven't bothered to check
other such references, but I suspect they would detail the same standard
technique for filling minor defects.

Thanks for the info. My library doesn't have those books, but I'll
make a note of them.

Actually, the Garrison book is a great book, but the handle section is a
bit thin. I'd suggest either the Clemens or Pfeiffer books with regard
to handle work, keeping in mind that a lot of the technique described is
more for full-blown, on-going rod building/finishing rather than an
occasional repair/replacement job. IOW, building sanding lathes,
reamers, taper cutters, etc. might be a bit much for very occasional
use.

Chuck Vance (who has one early 80's-vintage Fenwick HMG that
needs some serious cork work done; probably more like the ring
replacement you described above, as cockroaches or rats or *something*
got into it in storage and ate away huge pieces of the grip)

Yep, a complete or near-complete replacement in the way to go on such as
that. If possible, try to purchase the cork in person or from known
source. Check out Pfeiffer or Clemens cork info or Google "specie
cork." It's been years since I've needed to track such down, so I'll
not offer source opinions.

TC.
R

"Conan The Librarian" wrote in message
...
wrote:

I suspect one would find that using a Dutchman (and the name might give
a clue as to it making a "defect into a feature" versus simply being
frugal and better than wasting material/furniture/etc.) in a rod handle
to be more trouble than it'd be worth, even if it worked. I doubt it
would. If the handle is losing multiple "chunks," the cork is
deteriorating (and/or one of the hinkier pressed cork types) and such a
patch attempt is likely to do more damage by taking out more cork when
it fails.

IIRC, the OP mentioned a "divot", which seemed like a likely candidate
for a patch rather than a sanding dust filler. I honestly don't see any
reason why it shouldn't work. You're not gluing it to the surrounding
cork.

There are multiple grades of cork used for handles, good and not-so-good
variations of "pressed" cork, and cork tape. Assuming the most common
type, rings, and if the divot were large enough to make use of a "piece
patch" technique, it would be time to replace at least one ring, if not
the whole handle. The replacement of the cork itself is not hard at
all. The shaping can be a chore if done completely by hand, but power
tools can speed things up and access to a lathe can make things pretty
much a breeze. Depending on the rod, the amount of "deconstruction"
necessary for a complete replacement could be significant. If Tom had
asked for opinions on that, I'd have happily offered what I could. As
he asked a pointed question that had a single answer, I provided it.

Yes, you and the rest of ROFF. :-) I also offered what seemed to me
to be a fairly straightforward process for repairing a "divot". It may
seem like more trouble than it's worth to you, but I *like* fitting inlays
in wood. It's certainly more fun than creating a mess of sanding dust and
trying to form a paste of that and glue to fill a void.

I thought it might also work with cork.

YMODV.

If you have access in your library to "Advanced Custom Rod Building" by
Clemens, look on page 104, "Filling the cork." Also, "A Master's Guide
to Building a Bamboo Fly Rod" by Garrison and Carmichael, page 216-217,
"Cleaning and Repairing the Cork Grip." I haven't bothered to check
other such references, but I suspect they would detail the same standard
technique for filling minor defects.

Thanks for the info. My library doesn't have those books, but I'll
make a note of them.


Chuck Vance (who has one early 80's-vintage Fenwick HMG that needs
some serious cork work done; probably more like the ring replacement you
described above, as cockroaches or rats or *something* got into it in
storage and ate away huge pieces of the grip)

Mindful of the thoughtful observation provided earlier about the problematic
"repairer's access to
tools" and knowing how difficult it can be to find specialty items, I did a
bit of research and found the following probably useful site.....looks like
a fairly complete line of everything you should need:

http://www.cleansweepsupply.com/pages/skugroup7358.html

Good luck.......and feel free to consult with our helpful double-naught
experts if any further problems arise.

Wolfgang

On 12/7/05 12:49 PM, in article ,
" wrote:

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:08:46 -0500, William Claspy
wrote:

I love that book. Garrison seems like he was the double-naught of cane rod
building.

He did turn out some pretty decent rods, having taken his, pardon the
Bond pun, "cue" from some of the early masters of the art.

Well for me, the book is a gem for the illustrations, photographs, and
exquisite step-by-step detail of building a bamboo rod. Right on the money,
penny (to extend the pun just a tad more than it should be.) Though perhaps
the pages and pages at the end filled with tables and graphs is a bit more
engineering than truly necessary?

Whenever I think that I could build one myself, I just look through the book
and end up shaking my head at the intricacies involved. As Carmichael says
in the intro, the book is the culmination of 40 years of rod building by
Garrison. Maybe someday I'll do it. When I do :-) I'll have that book on
one end of the bench.

Bill

(but until that day, I'll just keep mooching off W.K. when I get the 'boo
jones. :-)

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 14:09:17 -0500, William Claspy
wrote:

On 12/7/05 12:49 PM, in article ,
" wrote:

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:08:46 -0500, William Claspy
wrote:

I love that book. Garrison seems like he was the double-naught of cane rod
building.

He did turn out some pretty decent rods, having taken his, pardon the
Bond pun, "cue" from some of the early masters of the art.

Well for me, the book is a gem for the illustrations, photographs, and
exquisite step-by-step detail of building a bamboo rod. Right on the money,
penny (to extend the pun just a tad more than it should be.) Though perhaps
the pages and pages at the end filled with tables and graphs is a bit more
engineering than truly necessary?

For the occasional "hobby" builder, yeah, probably, but for someone who
is really into bamboo rod building, especially at the time of
publication of the book, it was about it as far as published info.
Perhaps it is better that they provided extra info rather than let it go
unpublished and perhaps lost, ala much Payne, esp. Ed, and other
"masters" info. Perhaps not - as always, YMMV.

Whenever I think that I could build one myself, I just look through the book
and end up shaking my head at the intricacies involved. As Carmichael says
in the intro, the book is the culmination of 40 years of rod building by
Garrison. Maybe someday I'll do it. When I do :-) I'll have that book on
one end of the bench.

If you aren't already familiar with it, you might get ahold of "Idyll of
the Split Bamboo Rod" by George Holden. I'm fairly sure there was at
least one reprint, and should be readily available.

TC,
R

wrote:

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:05:21 -0600, Conan The Librarian
wrote:

IIRC, the OP mentioned a "divot", which seemed like a likely
candidate for a patch rather than a sanding dust filler. I honestly
don't see any reason why it shouldn't work.

You're not gluing it to the surrounding cork.

Then I may have misunderstood what you meant as to where you were
suggesting gluing the new piece/"Dutchman" - ???

I was probably not precise enough in my previous statement. You are
not gluing it to the cork on the sides, but rather the cork below the
patch. In woodworking inlays, you don't attempt to glue the edges of
the inlay, you glue it to the substrate. I'm assuming you would do the
same with cork, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, you and the rest of ROFF. :-) I also offered what seemed to
me to be a fairly straightforward process for repairing a "divot". It
may seem like more trouble than it's worth to you, but I *like* fitting
inlays in wood. It's certainly more fun than creating a mess of sanding
dust and trying to form a paste of that and glue to fill a void.

I thought it might also work with cork.

Heck, I've no problem with "it might work." I just think that the odds
are heavily against it working, and it not working would probably cause
more damage. Consider the structure of the materials involved as well
as likely uses of such a inlay (or parquetry, marquetry) piece versus
that of a cork fly rod handle. If a "piece patch" is what is called
for, the split ring method Mike Connor first outlined is what I'd
suggest.

I understand your point about the uses, but if anything, I'd think
that cork would be more forgiving than wood. Wood inlays are inherently
a tricky business because of the hygroscopic nature of wood, and the
likelihood of having two different woods contracting/expanding at
different rates.

And if it didn't work, then I'd just go to the ring method. :-)

Thanks for the info. My library doesn't have those books, but I'll
make a note of them.

Actually, the Garrison book is a great book, but the handle section is a
bit thin. I'd suggest either the Clemens or Pfeiffer books with regard
to handle work, keeping in mind that a lot of the technique described is
more for full-blown, on-going rod building/finishing rather than an
occasional repair/replacement job. IOW, building sanding lathes,
reamers, taper cutters, etc. might be a bit much for very occasional
use.

Thanks again for the info. And don't worry, I've been known to
build elaborate jigs and templates for one-off jobs in the shop. :-)

Chuck Vance (who has one early 80's-vintage Fenwick HMG that
needs some serious cork work done; probably more like the ring
replacement you described above, as cockroaches or rats or *something*
got into it in storage and ate away huge pieces of the grip)

Yep, a complete or near-complete replacement in the way to go on such as
that. If possible, try to purchase the cork in person or from known
source. Check out Pfeiffer or Clemens cork info or Google "specie
cork." It's been years since I've needed to track such down, so I'll
not offer source opinions.

I'll check it out. Heck, this discussion has got me thinking that I
should get after re-doing that grip. In some spots it's almost down to
the blank. I don't know if that means it's a candidate for total
replacement or not. I'm a little leery of trying to remove the reel
seat/spacer, since I don't have any previous experience doing it.


Chuck Vance

Wolfgang wrote:

Mindful of the thoughtful observation provided earlier about the problematic
"repairer's access to
tools" and knowing how difficult it can be to find specialty items, I did a
bit of research and found the following probably useful site.....looks like
a fairly complete line of everything you should need:

http://www.cleansweepsupply.com/pages/skugroup7358.html

Good luck.......and feel free to consult with our helpful double-naught
experts if any further problems arise.

Heh, heh. :-) Thanks for the tool info. I think I've got about a
dozen of those lying around somewhere. But I'm disappointed; I was
counting on being able to make a major tool purchase just for this project.


Chuck Vance (maybe a lathe?)

On 12/7/05 2:37 PM, in article , "Conan The
Librarian" wrote:


Chuck Vance (maybe a lathe?)

Treadle, of course.

:-)

Bill

William Claspy wrote:

On 12/7/05 2:37 PM, in article , "Conan The
Librarian" wrote:

Chuck Vance (maybe a lathe?)

Treadle, of course.

:-)

Wrong, book breath.

Spring-pole. ;-)


Chuck Vance

"William Claspy" wrote in message
...
On 12/7/05 2:37 PM, in article , "Conan The
Librarian" wrote:


Chuck Vance (maybe a lathe?)

Treadle, of course.

There's a old issue of FWW.....mid 70s - early 80s vintage.....that has
plans for a homebuilt treadle lathe. Of course, you probably have to
buy......or make.....some special tools to build it.

Wolfgang
which brings me RIGHT back to music theory!