How would you esplain it?

typed:
On Mar 23, 1:46 pm, Conan The Librarian wrote:


So, my point in this whole rant? Nothing, really. Just that a
newsgroup is what you (the general "you") make of it. If you want ff
content, post some. If you don't want arguments and ****ing matches,
don't participate in them. But don't moan and whine about the
nature of the group if that's your sole contribution to it.

Chuck Vance (move along ... nothing to see here)

This has often been stated, but it is simply not true. It is more or
less impossible for anybody to post here without being abused or
insulted.

That's just not true at all, Mike. Take it from me - your neighborhood
stupid dumbo.

Always by the same people. Most people quite rightly see
absolutely no point in allowing themselves to be treated in such a
fashion, most especially as regardless of what outrages are
perpetrated, there is absolutely nothing they can do about it.

Why do you (or they) feel they must do something about it? You, of all
people, perpetuate arguments farther than anyone I've ever seen posting
here. I can't for the life of me figure out why you can't just drop it and
let the readers decide for themselves who is right and wrong.

This is the main reason most of the old guard have left, they were
simply sick of the abuse. Newbies who wander in here, and there used
to be a large number, mainly do so because they want to hear something
about fly-fishing, As soon as they see that there is practically no
fly-fishing, just contentious bull****, and mainly off-topic, they
leave and go elsewhere. This is quite apart from those who are
insulted or abused on their first post or two. I have no doubt that
the vast majority never even post at all, they take a look, and leave.

Extreme bad manners, vituperation, and general ignorance are the order
of the day on this group, and that can not be changed by a few
sensible people, or even more than a few. It can only be changed if
those responsible could somehow be forced into complying with normal
manners and decency, but they can not. They simply continue to ruin
this group with impunity.



Fortenberry and Dean have actually stated they only come here to waste
time and entertain themselves by insulting and abusing others. Why
should any sensible person put up with that?

They said that? Hmmm. . . I must have missed something.

The analogy to a bar is also completely wrong. In a bar, those two
would not survive for five minutes before being given the bum´s
rush. They come here specifically to misbehave, because they would not
be allowed to do so anywhere else, those few remaining have become
inured to this, and as long as they themselves are not targeted they
either ignore it, or even join in with the slagging when the fancy
takes them.

I've been a target on several occasions, but that the way it goes. Most
recently I was called a stupid dumbo for giving heartfelt advice to a
newbie.

This group is practically dead as a result.

And yet, here you are again. Lighten up, Mike. It'll do your soul good.
--
TL,
Tim
-------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Conan The Librarian wrote:
wrote:
Bye.......................

Where have we heard that before?

LOL !! That's the second goodbye today already.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On 23 Mar 2007 06:14:27 -0700, wrote:

On Mar 23, 1:46 pm, Conan The Librarian wrote:


So, my point in this whole rant? Nothing, really. Just that a
newsgroup is what you (the general "you") make of it. If you want ff
content, post some. If you don't want arguments and ****ing matches,
don't participate in them. But don't moan and whine about the nature of
the group if that's your sole contribution to it.

Chuck Vance (move along ... nothing to see here)

This has often been stated, but it is simply not true. It is more or
less impossible for anybody to post here without being abused or
insulted.Always by the same people. Most people quite rightly see
absolutely no point in allowing themselves to be treated in such a
fashion, most especially as regardless of what outrages are
perpetrated, there is absolutely nothing they can do about it.

This is the main reason most of the old guard have left, they were
simply sick of the abuse. Newbies who wander in here, and there used
to be a large number, mainly do so because they want to hear something
about fly-fishing, As soon as they see that there is practically no
fly-fishing, just contentious bull****, and mainly off-topic, they
leave and go elsewhere. This is quite apart from those who are
insulted or abused on their first post or two. I have no doubt that
the vast majority never even post at all, they take a look, and leave.

Extreme bad manners, vituperation, and general ignorance are the order
of the day on this group, and that can not be changed by a few
sensible people, or even more than a few. It can only be changed if
those responsible could somehow be forced into complying with normal
manners and decency, but they can not. They simply continue to ruin
this group with impunity.

Fortenberry and Dean have actually stated they only come here to waste
time and entertain themselves by insulting and abusing others. Why
should any sensible person put up with that?

Pure bull****. I've never stated any such thing. I'll do something I
rarely do: "defend" myself. Just recently, as an example, the very same
person who made a to-do about who was in his killfile (again) responded
favorably and in total agreement to what I had written (on-topic) that
he had misread as being from another reply and writer. And I'd offer
that my busting your chops IS on-topic because fair chunk of what you
post is simply incorrect, and another chunk is inapplicable to anything
remotely related to actual fishing.

The analogy to a bar is also completely wrong. In a bar, those two
would not survive for five minutes before being given the bum´s
rush.

I've been raising hell in bars for longer than you've been flyfishing,
(and IIRC, I've been flyfishing longer than you, too) and believe me or
don't, you and any two of your friends wouldn't make enough of a man to
make me spill a fresh drink. I won't speak for the other wags around
here because I cannot.

They come here specifically to misbehave, because they would not
be allowed to do so anywhere else, those few remaining have become
inured to this, and as long as they themselves are not targeted they
either ignore it, or even join in with the slagging when the fancy
takes them.

And once again, you demonstrate just how wrong you are...the few here
that know me will tell you I'll say to anyone's face exactly what I'd
say here, good, bad, or otherwise, and do so with the same general sense
of humor. And if the receiver of it took exception, I'd be perfectly
willing to let them do what they thought they needed to do, be that
respond back or start swinging. And just like here, they'd get a
response pretty closely matching what they gave. The only advice I'd
give is that they might not wish to let their mouth write checks their
ass couldn't cover.

This group is practically dead as a result.

Then why are you here, you pompous, full-of-**** windbag?

Dickie

MC

On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 06:19:44 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:

I was wondering,
why not restore ROFF?
Get it back on track to being a good group for fly-fishing.

It never was or will be such a thing - it was, is, and always will be a
group for flyfish_ers_, not flyfish_ing_...

I believe if everyone makes an effort it can be done.

Oh, Lordy, not the fabled EVERYONE...

fwiw,
R
fwiw,
-tom

On 23 Mar 2007 06:39:50 -0700, "rb608" wrote:

On Mar 22, 10:26 pm, " wrote:
this place originated as a cybersapce bar room, where folks who
were originally attracted by an obvious common sporting interest sat
and relaxed, just bull****ting about fishing and lifeitsownself, at
the end of the fishing day, as friends do after the same activity in
real life.

Pretty much what mfitons says echoes my thoughts.

Ever hung out (for any length of time) in a (good) bar that didn't have
it's share of fights, fisticuffs, and other melodrama? Or even a
family. Heck, I'd offer that a bar (or family) without such wouldn't be
much of a bar (or family)...

TC,
R

While noting that KF's reasonable issue that ROFF did not originate as
a cyberspace bar room, I'd insert my opinion that while
rec.outdoors.fishing.fly is undeniably nothing more than a binary
Usenet construct, the oft-lamented ROFF was indeed something more than
that.

But except for wayno's disinterest in another Clave, what he said.

Joe F.

Tom Nakashima wrote:
I was wondering,
why not restore ROFF?
Get it back on track to being a good group for fly-fishing.
I believe if everyone makes an effort it can be done.

Just what, exactly, do you propose everyone should do ? I mean,
make an effort to do what, exactly ?

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Mar 23, 10:29 am, "Tim J."
wrote:
These boys and girl(s) are like big cuddly teddy bears when
they don't have their computer monitors to shield them. ;-)

....And the Balvenie bottle is half empty. :-)

Joe F.

Ken Fortenberry typed:
Tom Nakashima wrote:
I was wondering,
why not restore ROFF?
Get it back on track to being a good group for fly-fishing.
I believe if everyone makes an effort it can be done.

Just what, exactly, do you propose everyone should do ? I mean,
make an effort to do what, exactly ?

Jack Nicholson/President Dale: "Why can't we work out our differences? Why
can't we work things out? Little people, why can't we all just get along?"
--
HTH,
Tim
-------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Tim J. wrote:
Ken Fortenberry typed:
Tom Nakashima wrote:
I was wondering,
why not restore ROFF?
Get it back on track to being a good group for fly-fishing.
I believe if everyone makes an effort it can be done.
Just what, exactly, do you propose everyone should do ? I mean,
make an effort to do what, exactly ?

Jack Nicholson/President Dale: "Why can't we work out our differences? Why
can't we work things out? Little people, why can't we all just get along?"

Hey, whaddya gonna do, nice college boy, eh? Didn't want to get
mixed up in roff, huh? Now you wanna gun down Mike Connor. Why?
Because he slapped ya in the face a little bit? Hah? What do you
think this is the Army, where you shoot 'em a mile away? You've
gotta get up close like this and - bada-BING! - you blow their
brains all over your nice Ivy League suit.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Try to stay on the topic of fly-fishing.
If there is a post not related to fly-fishing it could be addressed as
"OT:" I feel as people cruise through the newsgroups and are
interested in fly-fishing, if they see the in-fighting & name calling,
it just turns anglers away. Some of these anglers might have some
good advice to bring to ROFF.
Eliminate the name calling and finger pointing. Everyone has the right
to an opinion. The name calling and finger pointing is useless, doesn't
solve anything. I feel if everyone could make an effort here, become
a little more courteous to one another, it could be a start to restoring
this newsgroup, after all, we all have the same interest of fly-fishing.

Ken, a few questions to you, since you're one of the originals of
this newsgroup.

Are you happy with the current ROFF newsgroup?
If not, what changes would you like to see in this newsgroup?
If you were a new angler and cruised into ROFF, what would be
your first reaction after reading some of the post?
fwiw,
-tom


"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
...
Tom Nakashima wrote:
I was wondering,
why not restore ROFF?
Get it back on track to being a good group for fly-fishing.
I believe if everyone makes an effort it can be done.

Just what, exactly, do you propose everyone should do ? I mean,
make an effort to do what, exactly ?

--
Ken Fortenberry