Another Pipeline Believer

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:05:12 -0600, rw
wrote:

Wolfgang wrote:

However, there is a simpler, cheaper, and much more elegant solution.

Pueblo, being at a considerably greater elevation than, say, Milwaukee, a
pipeline could be constructed to carry water downhill from Pueblo to the
shore of Lake Michigan. The enormous pressure exerted by a 4220 foot head
(~4880 foot altitude at Pueblo - ~580 at Milwaukee) could be used to push
water back through a pipeline from Lake Michigan to Colorado. Thus, a much
smaller number of staged reservoirs would be needed to distribute the water
from Pueblo to the rest of the west, and there is the added advantage of the
4000+ foot elevation gain, which would make the siphoning that much easier
and concomitantly cheaper.

Why would you push water BACK to Colorado? That's nuts. Every foot of
pipeline loses head, depending on the diameter and the current (flow
rate). The loss of head incurs a cost. Another huge cost -- probably the
dominant one -- would be the cost of building a parallel pipeline system.

If the water's in Colorado, already at high elevation, and you need it
there, use it there. Duh.


Wolfgang
who supposes that some people just never will be able to grasp basic
physics.

That's why they come up with crackpot schemes.

OK, OK, OK...here's a much better solution: wetb...er, illegal al...er,
visitors unencumbered by documentation. That loon (no, the other
one...) up in Colorado hates 'em, but maybe if they each were issued a
great big ol' bucket, they could bring a bunch of water with 'em when
they swam the Rio Grande, and he'd like 'em better. And if they knew
they were welcome in Colorado (provided, of course, they came with a
great big ol' bucket of water), more would come. Then, when every human
being what was south of the Texas is now north of Texas, you give 'em
all shovels, dig a big ol' canal between Peebalow and that place in
England with all the flooding, and TA-DA!!! the US and England are best
buddies again. And if there's any water left over, they can keep
digging and dig a canal to the Sahara and then, the radical
Islamofacists will be not only grateful to the US, but all them illegal
aliens, too. JOY TO THE WORLD, LET PEACE RING OUT!!!

HTH,
R

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:40:22 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:34:23 -0400, daytripper
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:42:50 -0000, Halfordian Golfer
wrote:

Quiz

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/rfcshare/pre...alysis_new.php

Select:
Archive Month/Year
and view
Departure from Normal.

Where would water enter the grid this year?

Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, Superman and Paris Hilton are standing together
when a wind-blown $100 bill lands at their feet.

Who picks up the hundred dollar bill?

Nobody...Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and Superman don't exist, and
Paris Hilton doesn't bend over for less than 100K...

Well...you asked...
R

lol!

Ok, you *finally* scored.

golf claps

/daytripper (That puts you at "one for decade", I believe... ;-)

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:36:50 -0400, daytripper
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:40:22 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:34:23 -0400, daytripper
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:42:50 -0000, Halfordian Golfer
wrote:

Quiz

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/rfcshare/pre...alysis_new.php

Select:
Archive Month/Year
and view
Departure from Normal.

Where would water enter the grid this year?

Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, Superman and Paris Hilton are standing together
when a wind-blown $100 bill lands at their feet.

Who picks up the hundred dollar bill?

Nobody...Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and Superman don't exist, and
Paris Hilton doesn't bend over for less than 100K...

Well...you asked...
R

lol!

Ok, you *finally* scored.

golf claps

/daytripper (That puts you at "one for decade", I believe... ;-)

Yeah, well, wait to you peruse the...er...visitors' bucket brigade
thing...I'm sure many inattentive readers will feel it cancels this one
out...

HTH,
R
....and maybe some attentive readers unencumbered by a sense of humor,
too...

"Halfordian Golfer" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 25, 7:46 pm, daytripper wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 23:50:48 -0000, Halfordian Golfer

wrote:





Check this out:

""What this project does is it uses pipes like this to go downstream
and collect it; work against gravity to bring it back up. And then
we'll treat it and flow it through our system back to the South
Platte," said Binney."

That's right...."work against gravity"...read it and weap boys.

From:http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=74260

I think a water grid is easily within grips. No drought, no flooding,
just good, clean water for all.

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer
A cash flow runs through it

Oooooh! Magical Pipes, defying gravity!

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTT!

El Wrongo strikes again.

http://www.auroragov.org/stellent/gr...map/021665.pdf

See all those pumping stations, Tim?

/daytripper (ahahahahahahhaahaha!)

My point has always been that pumping was cost effective if other ways
couldn't be made to work. This just proves it. I still think it's
possible to used staged siphon but I acknowledge that's way out there.
So, each little pump station has it's own solar grid and water is
going, well, anywhere it needs to. No more flood, no more drought just
abundant, safe water for all.

Halfordian Golfer
A cash flow runs through it.


It is just not the cash cost, but how much water is available. The Ogallala
Aquifer is a falling level of water. Was originally recharged by the water
that seeped through buffalo wallows. The buffalo broke though the clay
layer allowing the water to flow. Very little recharging these days. So
pipelines from where the water is may be the only viable option. Or a
pipeline to allow the water to get to the aquifer you are pumping from.

"Bob Weinberger" wrote in message
news:wW7qi.9186$XL4.3133@trndny04...

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...
Nothing at all wrong with the idea of siphoning water through a series of
reservoirs from the waterlogged east to the parched west. The science is
sound. The solution is a simply matter of engineering. All that really
needs to be done is the construction of the initial reservoir at about
12,000 feet.

However, there is a simpler, cheaper, and much more elegant solution.

Pueblo, being at a considerably greater elevation than, say, Milwaukee, a
pipeline could be constructed to carry water downhill from Pueblo to the
shore of Lake Michigan. The enormous pressure exerted by a 4220 foot
head (~4880 foot altitude at Pueblo - ~580 at Milwaukee) could be used to
push water back through a pipeline from Lake Michigan to Colorado. Thus,
a much smaller number of staged reservoirs would be needed to distribute
the water from Pueblo to the rest of the west, and there is the added
advantage of the 4000+ foot elevation gain, which would make the
siphoning that much easier and concomitantly cheaper.

Wolfgang
who supposes that some people just never will be able to grasp basic
physics.

When I read the above, I thought to myself, "sure as hell someone is going
to think he is actually serious". I was not wrong. However, I thought
that T-Bone would be the first to respond with a "See. Someone else agrees
with me."

At issue, I think, is not so much the question of seriousness as
impetuosity. Take, for example, that little matter from a few months ago of
idly tossing out the notion of farming Lake Erie for wind generated
electricity. Experience has taught me that I SHOULD allow such spur of the
moment thoughts to gestate for a while prior to setting them before the
general public. But I get excited, throw caution to the wind, and just let
fly without due consideration. I've had some time to think about that
particular idea in the ensuing weeks and, not surprisingly, have come to the
conclusion that some refinements are in order. If you recall, I suggested
that by spacing the individual windmills about 500 feet apart, we could fit
about a million of them out there. Well, it occurred to me that by
shortening the lengths of the vanes by a small amount, resulting in a
negligible loss in generating capacity, the distance between them could be
reduced to 250 feet while maintaining a sufficient safety margin. It takes
no great feat of imagination or arithmetic to come to the obvious and
correct conclusion that we could thus fit FOUR MILLION!! of them ****ers out
there!* HAH!

Wolfgang
*yes, yes, i know that a corridor, say a mile or so wide, would have to be
left across the length of the lake to facilitate shipping, and that similar
paths would need to be left vacant at each port of consequence. so, we
sacrifice (if my map reading skills are up to the task) something like
23,641 generators. this leaves us with a still not entirely insignificant
total of 3,976,359.

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...
snip

...idly tossing out the notion of farming Lake Erie for wind generated
electricity.

Wolfgang
*yes, yes, i know that a corridor, say a mile or so wide, would have to be
left across the length of the lake to facilitate shipping, and that
similar paths would need to be left vacant at each port of consequence.
so, we sacrifice (if my map reading skills are up to the task) something
like 23,641 generators. this leaves us with a still not entirely
insignificant total of 3,976,359.

And some winters you could even use snowmobiles instead of watercraft get
out there to perform maintenance on them, and there certainly is no
shortage of snowmobiles in the Great Lakes area. 8)

Bob Weinberger

Bob Weinberger wrote:
"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...
snip

...idly tossing out the notion of farming Lake Erie for wind generated
electricity.


Wolfgang
*yes, yes, i know that a corridor, say a mile or so wide, would have to be
left across the length of the lake to facilitate shipping, and that
similar paths would need to be left vacant at each port of consequence.
so, we sacrifice (if my map reading skills are up to the task) something
like 23,641 generators. this leaves us with a still not entirely
insignificant total of 3,976,359.


And some winters you could even use snowmobiles instead of watercraft get
out there to perform maintenance on them, and there certainly is no
shortage of snowmobiles in the Great Lakes area. 8)

.... and no shortage of egomaniacal crackpots.


--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Jul 27, 5:29 am, "Wolfgang" wrote:
"Bob Weinberger" wrote in message

news:wW7qi.9186$XL4.3133@trndny04...







"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...
Nothing at all wrong with the idea of siphoning water through a series of
reservoirs from the waterlogged east to the parched west. The science is
sound. The solution is a simply matter of engineering. All that really
needs to be done is the construction of the initial reservoir at about
12,000 feet.

However, there is a simpler, cheaper, and much more elegant solution.

Pueblo, being at a considerably greater elevation than, say, Milwaukee, a
pipeline could be constructed to carry water downhill from Pueblo to the
shore of Lake Michigan. The enormous pressure exerted by a 4220 foot
head (~4880 foot altitude at Pueblo - ~580 at Milwaukee) could be used to
push water back through a pipeline from Lake Michigan to Colorado. Thus,
a much smaller number of staged reservoirs would be needed to distribute
the water from Pueblo to the rest of the west, and there is the added
advantage of the 4000+ foot elevation gain, which would make the
siphoning that much easier and concomitantly cheaper.

Wolfgang
who supposes that some people just never will be able to grasp basic
physics.

When I read the above, I thought to myself, "sure as hell someone is going
to think he is actually serious". I was not wrong. However, I thought
that T-Bone would be the first to respond with a "See. Someone else agrees
with me."

At issue, I think, is not so much the question of seriousness as
impetuosity. Take, for example, that little matter from a few months ago of
idly tossing out the notion of farming Lake Erie for wind generated
electricity. Experience has taught me that I SHOULD allow such spur of the
moment thoughts to gestate for a while prior to setting them before the
general public. But I get excited, throw caution to the wind, and just let
fly without due consideration. I've had some time to think about that
particular idea in the ensuing weeks and, not surprisingly, have come to the
conclusion that some refinements are in order. If you recall, I suggested
that by spacing the individual windmills about 500 feet apart, we could fit
about a million of them out there. Well, it occurred to me that by
shortening the lengths of the vanes by a small amount, resulting in a
negligible loss in generating capacity, the distance between them could be
reduced to 250 feet while maintaining a sufficient safety margin. It takes
no great feat of imagination or arithmetic to come to the obvious and
correct conclusion that we could thus fit FOUR MILLION!! of them ****ers out
there!* HAH!

Wolfgang
*yes, yes, i know that a corridor, say a mile or so wide, would have to be
left across the length of the lake to facilitate shipping, and that similar
paths would need to be left vacant at each port of consequence. so, we
sacrifice (if my map reading skills are up to the task) something like
23,641 generators. this leaves us with a still not entirely insignificant
total of 3,976,359.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The power available is proportional to the swept area. If you reduce
the blades by half you need four times as many, thats Eight Million.

"rw" wrote in message
m...
Bob Weinberger wrote:
"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...
snip

...idly tossing out the notion of farming Lake Erie for wind generated
electricity.


Wolfgang
*yes, yes, i know that a corridor, say a mile or so wide, would have to
be left across the length of the lake to facilitate shipping, and that
similar paths would need to be left vacant at each port of consequence.
so, we sacrifice (if my map reading skills are up to the task) something
like 23,641 generators. this leaves us with a still not entirely
insignificant total of 3,976,359.


And some winters you could even use snowmobiles instead of watercraft get
out there to perform maintenance on them, and there certainly is no
shortage of snowmobiles in the Great Lakes area. 8)

... and no shortage of egomaniacal crackpots.

Lord, how it must hurt to wake up every day to the grim realization that you
are still alive. Well, take heart, it can't last forever.......it just
feels that way.

Wolfgang
some people just WILL NOT learn.

"BJConner" wrote in message
oups.com...

The power available is proportional to the swept area. If you reduce
the blades by half you need four times as many, thats Eight Million.

Where safety is concerned I tend to err egregiously on the side of caution.
My calculations were based on the assumption (bolstered, admittedly, by
nothing more than a rough estimate arrived at by casual observation) of a
blade/vane length of 80 feet or so. Spacing the windmills at 250 feet, one
could actually LENGTHEN the vanes by 20 feet (25%) and still leave a more
than adequate 50 feet of separation. Given that these things are generally
built higher than need be of concern to pedestrians and lower than the
typical flight paths of 767s, I think we'll still be o.k.

Wolfgang