The politics of nature

On 30 Dec 2003 14:09:42 GMT, irate (Dave LaCourse) wrote:

Dave T. writes:

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:45:21 -0500, "Guyz-N-Flyz"
wrote:
[snip]
If I have to reiterate the Pirates words, I think I will just puke.

Yeah, well, if I did that I'd puke too...

Give me a ****in' break, Ralph Nader and his supporters had/have a
legitimate right
to be heard. The votes cast for Nader in no way helped nor hurt Dubya.

Do the math:

Shrublett "won" Florida by less than a thousand "votes".
Nader took around 30000 votes in Florida.

There are 30000 voters in Florida that we can all blame for the result.

/daytripper (*I* sure as hell didn't vote for the First Nitwit...)

From your reaction to the capture of Saddam, we should probably set up a
suicide watch at your home when they capture Osama. Too phunny.

What's phunny is your ability to dismiss everyone that disagrees with your
unique "perspective" as being somehow less patriotic than you.

It's pretty close to how people might dismiss you as being an over the hill,
dried up ex-kinda-military person who fawns at the feet of the hard core
right.

/daytripper (I take it back - it's not phunny, it's a sickness. Tough break.)

Ken Fortenberry writes:

If you want to call it hogwash AFTER you read it, fine, but
at least read it first. Debka has an agenda and they make no
bones about it, but I find a lot of their stuff at least as
credible as the outrageous lies spewed forth by the US military.

I read the article. It amuses me that you wouldn't believe a right-winger like
Limbaugh or even Coulter, but you believe this extrememly right wing source. I
guess we believe what we want to.

This whole political thread has gone to the ****s. I've hurt a lot of people
and in return have hurt by them and others, and for what? No one is going to
change the left's or the right's ideas. It's just plain bull**** that we spend
so much time hurting one another.
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

"Dave LaCourse" wrote...
snip
This whole political thread has gone to the ****s.

Hmmmm. . . I can't remember THAT ever happening before. ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Ken Fortenberry wrote in
y.com:

Dave LaCourse wrote:
Ken Fortenberry writes:

The story going around ...

Hogwash. ...

If you want to call it hogwash AFTER you read it, fine, but
at least read it first. Debka has an agenda and they make no
bones about it, but I find a lot of their stuff at least as
credible as the outrageous lies spewed forth by the US military.

http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=743


From that link:

******************
A number of questions are raised by the incredibly bedraggled, tired and
crushed condition of this once savage, dapper and pampered ruler who was
discovered in a hole in the ground on Saturday, December 13:

1. The length and state of his hair indicated he had not seen a barber or
even had a shampoo for several weeks.

2. The wild state of his beard indicated he had not shaved for the same
period

3. The hole dug in the floor of a cellar in a farm compound near Tikrit
was primitive indeed – 6ft across and 8ft across with minimal sanitary
arrangements - a far cry from his opulent palaces.

4. Saddam looked beaten and hungry.

5. Detained trying to escape were two unidentified men. Left with him
were two AK-47 assault guns and a pistol, none of which were used.

6. The hole had only one opening. It was not only camouflaged with mud
and bricks – it was blocked. He could not have climbed out without
someone on the outside removing the covering.

7. And most important, $750,000 in 100-dollar notes were found with him
(a pittance for his captors who expected a $25m reward)– but no
communications equipment of any kind, whether cell phone or even a
carrier pigeon for contacting the outside world.

According to DEBKAfile analysts, these seven anomalies point to one
conclusion: Saddam Hussein was not in hiding; he was a prisoner.
********************

Ken-

This is thready, at best. They don't even bother to find some loony
"witness" to talk about this.

He was only carrying two AK-47's and a pistol, and he only had 750K in
cash, so he was obviously a prisoner.

He's been running and hiding in a war zone for months. Perhaps that
might serve as an explanation for observations 1, 2, and 4. Hell, I
looked beaten and hungry after I graded 41 final exams and 41 term papers
solo on a 4-day deadline. I only felt like I was in captivity, though I
was really free to leave.

As for the sorry state of his hidey-hole, hell, it was a hidey hole, not
a palace. Yeah, it only had one opening. Perhaps that's why they call
it a hole and not a tunnel. Maybe the reasons for the austerity had to
do with the fact that he was hiding from the US and from his own
citizens, many of whom would probably kill him on sight if given the
opportunity. When this is the case, you don't bring in the backhoe to
dig your hole--you dig it by hand in the middle of the night. You also
might pile flowerpots on the entrance to help hide it.

Bottom line-- a despotic killer of hundreds of thousands is in US
custody.

With so much verifiably bad **** going down, I see little reason to
spread this canard.


Scott

DT writes:

snipped

Dave, see my reply to Ken. We've let this **** come between us just because we
have different beliefs. I expect more flames, but for me, I'll try to stay out
of it. No promises.......
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

Dave LaCourse wrote:
Ken Fortenberry writes:

If you want to call it hogwash AFTER you read it, fine, ...

I read the article. It amuses me that you wouldn't believe a right-winger like
Limbaugh or even Coulter, but you believe this extrememly right wing source.

I don't know if I believe it or not. I called it "the story going around"
in response to a cryptic post from Dave Snedeker, mostly, I suppose, to
indicate that Dave is not a complete, nutcase, fruitcake whackjob. I do
believe that ANY source is at least as credible as the US military.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Scott Seidman:
A number of questions are raised by the incredibly bedraggled, tired and
crushed condition of this once savage, dapper and pampered ruler who was
discovered in a hole in the ground on Saturday, December 13:


Scott, I'll make an attempt at this.

Someone in hiding does not normally visit a barber and may not have access
to all the personal hygiene options that person once had. Growing a beard
is an easy disguise for many people, particularly in a region where beards
are common place.

Bunkers are often primitive in nature and are made small to aid concealment.
The entrance to this one was plugged, but with styrofoam and covered with a
rug. That hardly precludes being opened from beneath. Living on the run
will make one look beaten and hungry. As to the two men who fled and left
him, and the money, your supposition is as good as mine.

And with regard to Debka, I read it from time to time. Like any other
source it needs to be considered in light of its agenda and its actual
access to information. In this situation, I tend to believe the Army's
story.


--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

irate (Dave LaCourse) wrote in
:

Ken Fortenberry writes:

If you want to call it hogwash AFTER you read it, fine, but
This whole political thread has gone to the ****s. I've hurt a lot of
people and in return have hurt by them and others, and for what? No
one is going to change the left's or the right's ideas. It's just
plain bull**** that we spend so much time hurting one another.

Which speaks to the point I tried to raise some weeks back. NOTHING is ever
resolve in these damned political threads, but recrimination and hurt
feelings are almost always the result. OT subjects should be allowed within
reason, but political posts should be banned entirely. This can't be done
in this newsgroup, more's the pity.

Frank Church
another over the hill, dried up ex-kinda-military person who fawns at the
feet of the hard core.

irate (Dave LaCourse) wrote in
:

This whole political thread has gone to the ****s. I've hurt a lot of
people and in return have hurt by them and others, and for what? No
one is going to change the left's or the right's ideas. It's just
plain bull**** that we spend so much time hurting one another.
Dave

I don't know, Dave. This most recent discussion is going on civilly, for
the most part. And, I'm certainly learning about everybody here. Useful
stuff. It's al going into my book for when I have to lead the charge to
tear my party from the grasp of Howard Dean!!

Right now, we're just playing tag. For those who aren't following
closely, Ken never actually said he believed this Debka editorial
observation--he's just passing it along.

FWIW, I think its the fact that we can openly discuss issues like this
that makes this a pretty good place to live.

Also, never forget that polite but vigorous discourse like this is part
of my tradition. If you've never done so, pick up a Passover Hagadah
some day, and read endlessly about the endless discussions about the
interpretations of Gods works

For example:
Tradition says there were even more plagues than these. Rabbi Jose, the
Galilean, said: "How can one infer that the Egyptians were afflicted with
ten plagues in Egypt, and on the sea with fifty plagues? Concerning the
ten plagues in Egypt, it is said: 'And the magicians said to Pharaoh:
"This is the finger of God," but concerning the sea, it is said: 'And
Israel saw the mighty hand with which the Lord smote the Egyptians, and
the people feared the Lord, and believed in the Lord and his servant
Moses.' Now, if by the finger they were afflicted with ten plagues, one
can infer from this that in Egypt (where the word finger is used) they
were smitten with ten plagues, and at the sea (where the word hand is
used) they were smitten with fifty plagues."

You can't stop a guy who comes from a line of people like this from
arguing!

Scott

I do believe that ANY source is at least as credible as the US military.
Ken Fortenberry

RWBNS

Now you can concentrate on your holiday feast and I can begin to deal with a
rather nice rib roast for 1, Jan, and a large pot of cioppino for 31 Dec.
Lobster, mussels, cod, grouper, shrimp, and lots of herbs and tending to the
stock!


--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm