Rod costs

Hi Warren,

We are selling imported TFO, Redington and Orvis rods now. The net effect
for me and I imagine other fly shops is that we are finally selling rods to
customers that would normally shop with Cabelas mail order or ecommerce. We
have very nice import rods starting at $89 TFO in 2 pc and now $98 Orvis in
4 piece. This price point is making it easier for people to get into the
sport or to try a different size outfit with out breaking the bank or
getting divorced.

When we sell fly tying thread for $1 a spool, who can say a $100 rod sale is
going to be bad for my business????? The person that is going to buy the
$100 rod was not thinking of buying a $600 rod when he came in the shop. We
also sell lots of great mid-price US rods in the $300 range.

I spent 10 years in the general fishing tackle business(1965-1975) before I
opened my fly shop(1975) so all this price point stuff is standard retailing
for me.

Lots of anglers going on a $3000+ fishing trip will buy a high end Sage rod
and then maybe a low end for a back up.

I think that a trend will be that the big name US rod companies like Sage
will have their low-medium priced rods made overseas (Redington connection)
and then build their high end here.

You are right about the "no name" rod companies.

If you and I wanted to start a rod company, "Warren & Bill's Super Stiks",
all we have to do is contact a rod factory in Korea, Taiwan or China and
tell them what we want. This is happening. Anyone can do it with a little
money.

We have to be careful what rod companies we put in our shop because down the
road, if the company is not here to warranty the rod, I have to make it good
myself. This could get expensive.

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA
www.kiene.com

"Warren" wrote in message
...
wrote...

Imported rods are getting cheaper and better too, but Sage still can't
produce enough new $600+ Xi2 rods to meet the current demand.

Do you think that the brand name could be causing some of that? I
would sooner trust a Sage than a unknown brand even though the
unknown brand may cast and look just as good. Not being able to try
the unknown brand or see them first hand causes me to have doubts and
might sway me enough to spend the $600+ for the Sage. Do you see fly
shops starting to carry more of these unknown rods in the future?
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)
For Conclave Info:
http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt...nConclave.html

Because of the low-medium price market place that St.Croix (made in USA) is
in, they have probably been more negatively effected by the import rods than
Sage.

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA
www.kiene.com

"George Cleveland" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:14:56 -0700, Warren wrote:

wrote...
I would guess that nearly every shop carries at least one line of
imported
rods. Redington is a good example. Temple forks are stirring a lot
of
interest. they are the rods that are selling in this downturn

That trend doesn't seem to be very widespread up here yet. I know of
one shop that carries Redington and another that carries St Croix.
All the others have only high $ name brand rods. Not much of a
selection for seven fly shops.....
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)
For Conclave Info:
http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt...nConclave.html

Harumph!!! St.Croix rods are not imported. Unless you consider Wisconsin a
foreign country (Jeff, stay out of this.). The only reason they cost less
is because us Cheeseheads aren't afraid of doing a little work.

g.c.

Hi Walt,

I guess some people don't think they deserve a Sage XP rod with a Ross
Evolution reel?

Pretty smoken' stuff....................

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA
www.kiene.com

"walt winter" wrote in message
...
Mike Connor wrote:
Some of you may find this interesting;
http://www.sexyloops.com/sparton/graphiterods.shtml

TL
MC



thought provoking? pantload? who gives a ****?

all i can say is that i'm happy as hell that my sage xp and ross
evolution reel, loaded with sa wet-tip line backed with micron by
cortland, performed flawlessly today with some bruisin cruisin
catawbee imported german browns... ;-)

happy new year all.... my first lovely of the year may well be
talked about for many months... yeah baby!

wally.... petah, the weemer is awesome but wally's blackie slayed
'em!

Fly Fish America has an article on rods costing less than $300. They state
that nearly 2/3's of the rods sold will be in this group. Of course, every
major manufacturer hs at least one entry. Hard to say which are made in the
USA


"Bill Kiene" wrote in message
. ..
Hi Warren,

We are selling imported TFO, Redington and Orvis rods now. The net effect
for me and I imagine other fly shops is that we are finally selling rods
to
customers that would normally shop with Cabelas mail order or ecommerce.
We
have very nice import rods starting at $89 TFO in 2 pc and now $98 Orvis
in
4 piece. This price point is making it easier for people to get into the
sport or to try a different size outfit with out breaking the bank or
getting divorced.

When we sell fly tying thread for $1 a spool, who can say a $100 rod sale
is
going to be bad for my business????? The person that is going to buy the
$100 rod was not thinking of buying a $600 rod when he came in the shop.
We
also sell lots of great mid-price US rods in the $300 range.

I spent 10 years in the general fishing tackle business(1965-1975) before
I
opened my fly shop(1975) so all this price point stuff is standard
retailing
for me.

Lots of anglers going on a $3000+ fishing trip will buy a high end Sage
rod
and then maybe a low end for a back up.

I think that a trend will be that the big name US rod companies like Sage
will have their low-medium priced rods made overseas (Redington
connection)
and then build their high end here.

You are right about the "no name" rod companies.

If you and I wanted to start a rod company, "Warren & Bill's Super Stiks",
all we have to do is contact a rod factory in Korea, Taiwan or China and
tell them what we want. This is happening. Anyone can do it with a little
money.

We have to be careful what rod companies we put in our shop because down
the
road, if the company is not here to warranty the rod, I have to make it
good
myself. This could get expensive.

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA
www.kiene.com

"Warren" wrote in message
...
wrote...

Imported rods are getting cheaper and better too, but Sage still can't
produce enough new $600+ Xi2 rods to meet the current demand.

Do you think that the brand name could be causing some of that? I
would sooner trust a Sage than a unknown brand even though the
unknown brand may cast and look just as good. Not being able to try
the unknown brand or see them first hand causes me to have doubts and
might sway me enough to spend the $600+ for the Sage. Do you see fly
shops starting to carry more of these unknown rods in the future?
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)
For Conclave Info:
http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt...nConclave.html




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Bill states that anyone with a bit of money can get into the rod business.
In the recent article in Fly Fish America about rods costing less than $300,
there are 42 companies listed that offer rods in this price range.

Have you heard of , or seen, these lines of rods?
Albright
Biscayne
Cam Sigler
Castle Arms
Falcon
Gallatin
Global Dorber
March Brown
North Fork Flies
Rajeff Sports
Rogue Rods
Shelbyville
Stone Creek
Swede Industries
Wof Creek Trading
Wright & McGill

This list doesn't include any of the British or European rod makers. I
think that it is pretty safe to say, that some of these won't be around
long, and what good is their warranty? I hope that a few have something
special to offer besides price that will help them survive


"Bill Kiene" wrote in message
. ..
Hi Warren,

We are selling imported TFO, Redington and Orvis rods now. The net effect
for me and I imagine other fly shops is that we are finally selling rods
to
customers that would normally shop with Cabelas mail order or ecommerce.
We
have very nice import rods starting at $89 TFO in 2 pc and now $98 Orvis
in
4 piece. This price point is making it easier for people to get into the
sport or to try a different size outfit with out breaking the bank or
getting divorced.

When we sell fly tying thread for $1 a spool, who can say a $100 rod sale
is
going to be bad for my business????? The person that is going to buy the
$100 rod was not thinking of buying a $600 rod when he came in the shop.
We
also sell lots of great mid-price US rods in the $300 range.

I spent 10 years in the general fishing tackle business(1965-1975) before
I
opened my fly shop(1975) so all this price point stuff is standard
retailing
for me.

Lots of anglers going on a $3000+ fishing trip will buy a high end Sage
rod
and then maybe a low end for a back up.

I think that a trend will be that the big name US rod companies like Sage
will have their low-medium priced rods made overseas (Redington
connection)
and then build their high end here.

You are right about the "no name" rod companies.

If you and I wanted to start a rod company, "Warren & Bill's Super Stiks",
all we have to do is contact a rod factory in Korea, Taiwan or China and
tell them what we want. This is happening. Anyone can do it with a little
money.

We have to be careful what rod companies we put in our shop because down
the
road, if the company is not here to warranty the rod, I have to make it
good
myself. This could get expensive.

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA
www.kiene.com

"Warren" wrote in message
...
wrote...

Imported rods are getting cheaper and better too, but Sage still can't
produce enough new $600+ Xi2 rods to meet the current demand.

Do you think that the brand name could be causing some of that? I
would sooner trust a Sage than a unknown brand even though the
unknown brand may cast and look just as good. Not being able to try
the unknown brand or see them first hand causes me to have doubts and
might sway me enough to spend the $600+ for the Sage. Do you see fly
shops starting to carry more of these unknown rods in the future?
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)
For Conclave Info:
http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt...nConclave.html




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Greg Pavlov wrote:

"Sierra fisher" wrote:

Have you heard of , or seen, these lines of rods?

... and Wright & McGill
have been around for quite a while. ...

Wright & McGill = Eagle Claw these days, right ?

--
Ken Fortenberry

One brother is still a consultant to Loomis, the other has a fly shop and
this line of rods

"Greg Pavlov" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:39:15 -0800, "Sierra fisher"
wrote:

Have you heard of , or seen, these lines of rods?

Falcon has been producing spinning/casting
rods for at least 6 years. Global Dorber -
a Canadian company - and Wright & McGill
have been around for quite a while. Rajeff's
brother works (worked ?) with Gary Loomis.




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"Sierra fisher" wrote in message
...
Bill states that anyone with a bit of money can get into the rod business.
In the recent article in Fly Fish America about rods costing less than
$300,
there are 42 companies listed that offer rods in this price range.

Have you heard of , or seen, these lines of rods?
Albright
Biscayne
Cam Sigler
Castle Arms
etc

I (and many of my friends) own Castle Arms rods (sold under the name
Heritage Rods). Very nice imported rods. The owner of Castle Arms (Phil
Castleman) is a member of my TU Chapter.

Sierra fisher wrote:

Bill states that anyone with a bit of money can get into the rod business.
In the recent article in Fly Fish America about rods costing less than $300,
there are 42 companies listed that offer rods in this price range.

Have you heard of , or seen, these lines of rods?
Albright
Biscayne
Cam Sigler
Castle Arms
Falcon
Gallatin
Global Dorber
March Brown
North Fork Flies
Rajeff Sports
Rogue Rods
Shelbyville
Stone Creek
Swede Industries
Wof Creek Trading
Wright & McGill


With the decline in the fly fishing market, I'm surprised to see so many
new rod companies. My guess is that they're all importing rods at a very
cheap price and even on a rod retailing less than $300, their profit
margin is very good. I also think that most won't last.

Willi