bootfoot wader question

On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:36:24 +0100, "riverman" wrote:

Yuk yuk and no I don't. Here is the original statement:
"Then I realized that, for every yard I could walk deeper into the water, it
increased my casting distance 2 yards out into the deeps."

So tell me, Mr Whitman, how you would have phrased it?

If you are asserting that one can cast, for example, 60 yards if they merely
wade 30 yards into the water, then I wouldn't have phrased it at all. g
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com/ - photo galleries
http://www.chocphoto.com/roff

"Charlie Choc" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:36:24 +0100, "riverman" wrote:

Yuk yuk and no I don't. Here is the original statement:
"Then I realized that, for every yard I could walk deeper into the water,
it
increased my casting distance 2 yards out into the deeps."

So tell me, Mr Whitman, how you would have phrased it?

If you are asserting that one can cast, for example, 60 yards if they
merely
wade 30 yards into the water, then I wouldn't have phrased it at all. g
--


Yeah yeah yeah. My point was well understood by those who got it.

--riverman
;-)

"riverman" wrote in message
...

"snakefiddler" wrote in message
...
what has been ya'll's experience with bootfoot waders? with spring comin
(soon i hope) i am thinking of getting a pair of three forks 420
denier's, but they only come in a bootfoot for women. so, i'm wondering
about the comfort level of the boot, as well as the maneuverability
factor, and anything else i may not know to ask about. any
*constructive* ;-) input would be appreciated.

thanks-
snake


Here's my experience, in a nutshell.

First, I fished from shore. Then I realized that, for every yard I could
walk deeper into the water, it increased my casting distance 2 yards out
into the deeps. So then I got some mudboots. Mid-calf. It was less than a
month before I realized I needed to get farther out. So then I got some
hip waders (bootfoot). That lasted until the end of a single season. I
realized that I was constantly pushing the boundary and soaking my legs,
and needed some honest waders. So I got some mid-belly ones, stockingfoot
(as I wanted to be able to wear them in cool and cold water and needed to
be able to accomodate different arrangements of socks). Those got stolen,
so my next purchase was some stockingfoot armpit-depth waders. Which I
love. But those mudboots and bootfoot hipwaders live forever in my closet.

Anyway, that has nothing to do with your question, but you asked for my
experience.

Hey, wasn't there a thread about a year ago about some Simms waders for
sale on EBay from some high-maintenance woman who was dumping her suitor,
and his gifts? Too bad you didn't get in on those....

--riverman



yeah, i remember that. as i recall, they were the wrong size......
i also recall that she must not have been too bright. i can see returning a
diamond ring, but getting rid of a good pair of waders? G

snake

riverman wrote:

Thats true, but having a good clear backcast doesn't hurt. Anyway, at
the
time I was a medicre caster, and changing from mudboots to hip waders
did
enable me to cover water that was more than a foot deep. It didn't
help me
catch any more fish, bit at least I could spook more.


Grasshopper, if you make a hard stop at the 12:00 position on the
backcast, this will often cause your back cast to go straight up,
sometimes referred to as a steeple cast. Of more import on the forward
cast is the ability to generate line speed and shoot the line. WF lines
are better for this and a single haul often helps.

As far as covering more water and getting nothing forward, you have
proved once again the ability to mend and control your line while
stream fishing is more important than the ability to boom a cast
regardless of the distance to your target.

"Wayne Knight" wrote in message
ps.com...

riverman wrote:

Thats true, but having a good clear backcast doesn't hurt. Anyway, at
the
time I was a medicre caster, and changing from mudboots to hip waders
did
enable me to cover water that was more than a foot deep. It didn't
help me
catch any more fish, bit at least I could spook more.


Grasshopper, if you make a hard stop at the 12:00 position on the
backcast, this will often cause your back cast to go straight up,
sometimes referred to as a steeple cast. Of more import on the forward
cast is the ability to generate line speed and shoot the line. WF lines
are better for this and a single haul often helps.

As far as covering more water and getting nothing forward, you have
proved once again the ability to mend and control your line while
stream fishing is more important than the ability to boom a cast
regardless of the distance to your target.


Charlie Choc and I had this discussion at the SJMiniClave last year (just he
and I for a coupla days). I'm familiar with the steeple cast, and employ it
often when I have trees hard against my back on streams and there is too
much interference on the water for a roll cast, but even at my intermediate
level of casting, I can not get as good a load on the rod with that as I can
with a regular backcast. And my effective casting distance is about half, at
best.

Charlie and I were discussing the relationship between the direction of the
line during the backcast in comparison to the frontcast. He says (as does
pretty much everyone) that its irrelevant, as the line moves away from your
rod perpendicular to whatever direction it was going when it stopped, with
no loss of loading. I thought that there was something about this that must
disobey the rules about momentum and moment arm. The challenge we gave
ourselves was to make a V-shaped cast; where the line went up at 2:00 on the
backcast, and up at 10:00 on the forward cast. I found that it just didn't
work that well...there were loops and the end of the line flopped every
which way. However, if the backcast is directly opposite the forward cast:
3:00 and 9:00 (note: these are the directions the LINE is going, not the
rod), then there is a more complete loading of the rod on the backcast, and
a cleaner, further forward cast.

Your thoughts, Master?

--riverm-H^H^H^H^grasshopper

riverman Charlie and I were discussing the relationship between the
riverman direction of the line during the backcast in comparison to
riverman the frontcast. He says (as does pretty much everyone) that
riverman its irrelevant, as the line moves away from your rod
riverman perpendicular to whatever direction it was going when it
riverman stopped, with no loss of loading.

I'm not 100% sure of what you're trying to say, but in any case this
sounds very weird. Say you make your backcast at one o'clock (line
again, not rod), while wanting to make the frontcast at 10
o'clock. How are you going to get the rod loaded in the first place
during the forward cast? After the backcast the line will first go
up. If you start your forward cast directly from there, you can't get
the weight of the line against the rod. If you wait until the line is
at the right "level" it will no longer be straight but a puddle.

Or did I misunderstand this completely?

I've read a couple of books on casting, and I think that in those book
"pretty much everyone" thinks exactly the opposite. ;-)

--
Jarmo Hurri

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address. Remove all garbage from header email address when replying,
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On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 14:23:09 +0100, "riverman" wrote:

He says (as does
pretty much everyone) that its irrelevant, as the line moves away from your
rod perpendicular to whatever direction it was going when it stopped

I said the line moves in the direction the rod *tip* was moving when you did
the "speed up and stop". I'm not exactly sure what your statement above means,
but I'm totally sure it's not what I said at the SJ. g
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com/ - photo galleries
http://www.chocphoto.com/roff

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 17:28:17 +0200, Jarmo Hurri
wrote:

I'm not 100% sure of what you're trying to say, but in any case this
sounds very weird. Say you make your backcast at one o'clock (line
again, not rod), while wanting to make the frontcast at 10
o'clock. How are you going to get the rod loaded in the first place
during the forward cast? After the backcast the line will first go
up. If you start your forward cast directly from there, you can't get
the weight of the line against the rod. If you wait until the line is
at the right "level" it will no longer be straight but a puddle.

Or did I misunderstand this completely?

I've read a couple of books on casting, and I think that in those book
"pretty much everyone" thinks exactly the opposite. ;-)

At the SJ, Myron was saying that the forward cast *had* to mirror the
backcast, i.e. if you wanted your forward cast to go up your backcast had to
go down (the discussion started with talking about hitting the water on the
backcast). My statement was that the direction of either cast depended on what
direction the rod *tip* was moving when you did your "power stroke" or "speed
up and stop", whatever you call it. The front cast and back cast do not have
to mirror each other. As long as the tip of the line is moving when you start
the cast you (or at least Leftyg) can make the cast go pretty much any
direction you want.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com/ - photo galleries
http://www.chocphoto.com/roff

"Jarmo Hurri" wrote in message
...

riverman Charlie and I were discussing the relationship between the
riverman direction of the line during the backcast in comparison to
riverman the frontcast. He says (as does pretty much everyone) that
riverman its irrelevant, as the line moves away from your rod
riverman perpendicular to whatever direction it was going when it
riverman stopped, with no loss of loading.

I'm not 100% sure of what you're trying to say, but in any case this
sounds very weird. Say you make your backcast at one o'clock (line
again, not rod), while wanting to make the frontcast at 10
o'clock. How are you going to get the rod loaded in the first place
during the forward cast? After the backcast the line will first go
up. If you start your forward cast directly from there, you can't get
the weight of the line against the rod. If you wait until the line is
at the right "level" it will no longer be straight but a puddle.

Or did I misunderstand this completely?

No, you read it correctly. I presume, as you do, that if your backcast sends
the line out at 1o'clock, then your front cast will want to go out at about
7 o'clock, 8 o'clock if you can 'tweak' it up a bit. But apparently, others
disagree.

Its no suprise that this sounds strange to you, Jarmo, as the materials you
sent me were my primary source in assessing Charlie's ascertations. I didn't
disagree with him, as I am far from an expert in this, however I did not
completely feel comfortable agreeing, either. His point (which I will let
him expand on here shortly, I'm sure) is that the line will move away
perpendicular to whatever direction you stop the rod, and will load up when
it hits the end, regardless of what direction the following front cast sends
it. The frontcast direction is purely a function of where you stop your tip.
The *backcast* loads the rod, NOT the beginning of the frontcast. His point
(which is accepted, btw) is that we all do this horizontally: false cast
parallel to the bank before we release out over the water, perpendicular to
the direction of our false casts. The V-shaped cast is just a vertical
application of this 'around the corner' horizontal cast. Except that I
couldn't do it.

--riverman

Charlie At the SJ, Myron was saying that the forward cast *had* to
Charlie mirror the backcast, i.e. if you wanted your forward cast to
Charlie go up your backcast had to go down (the discussion started
Charlie with talking about hitting the water on the backcast).

Ah, yes, I see now. But this is very different from the direction
being "irrelevant".

Charlie The front cast and back cast do not have to mirror each
Charlie other. As long as the tip of the line is moving when you
Charlie start the cast you (or at least Leftyg) can make the cast
Charlie go pretty much any direction you want.

At least the couple of inches of line closest to the rod tip, for a
second or two... ;-)

--
Jarmo Hurri

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