What I learned today.

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:53:30 -0600, Conan The Librarian
wrote:

wrote:

On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:46:38 +0000, "W. D. Grey"
wrote:


In article , Ken Fortenberry
writes


Paul Prudhomme is an American chef credited with making
Cajun cooking popular.

Um, not among Cajuns he ain't...they were eating it before he was
born...

Well, yeah ... and there was French cuisine before Julia Child came
on the scene, too.

No ****?

Thanks for the explanation Ken. Must look up some recipes for this type
of grub.

There are no _recipes_ per se for much of Cajun or Creole cooking. Oh,
sure, there are "recipes" out there by the ton, but much of both styles
of cooking is simply cooking with what's available and adding cayenne,
thyme, garlic, a mirepoix-ish saute of onions, sweet/green/bell peppers,
and celery (no carrots ala French cooking), and Worchestershire to
individual taste. Very few Cajuns or Creoles make "standards" the same
way...which, I suppose, makes them, um, well, not standard, depending on
your POV.

So how would you suggest that a newcomer to Cajun food learn how to
cook it? I figure recipes might be a handy substitute for those of us
who don't have relatives who came over on the boats from Acadia.

Look at the general array of flavoring ingredients and techniques used
and go from there. There's nothing wrong with following a precise
recipe, but since most Cajun and Creole cooks really don't, there's no
reason that a person who is at least moderately familiar with food,
herbs and spices, and cooking should, either.

But perhaps most importantly, unlike, for example, baking, there really
isn't _a_ recipe for most dishes, so even if you and Bill were to find
recipes from two different sources and prepare them exactly as intended,
you would almost certainly have something somewhat different from Bill
although both preparations would likely be broadly similar. Take, for
example, the aforementioned "Shrimp Creole" - some "recipes" (family
"recipes") start with a medium brown roux and some don't use any roux at
all, but all are basically Creole mirepoix and tomatoes, thyme, garlic,
etc., and shrimp over rice.

TC,
R


Chuck Vance

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:53:30 -0600, Conan The Librarian
wrote:

So how would you suggest that a newcomer to Cajun food learn how to
cook it? I figure recipes might be a handy substitute for those of us
who don't have relatives who came over on the boats from Acadia.

Look at the general array of flavoring ingredients and techniques used
and go from there. There's nothing wrong with following a precise
recipe, but since most Cajun and Creole cooks really don't, there's no
reason that a person who is at least moderately familiar with food,
herbs and spices, and cooking should, either.

But perhaps most importantly, unlike, for example, baking, there really
isn't _a_ recipe for most dishes, so even if you and Bill were to find
recipes from two different sources and prepare them exactly as intended,
you would almost certainly have something somewhat different from Bill
although both preparations would likely be broadly similar. Take, for
example, the aforementioned "Shrimp Creole" - some "recipes" (family
"recipes") start with a medium brown roux and some don't use any roux at
all, but all are basically Creole mirepoix and tomatoes, thyme, garlic,
etc., and shrimp over rice.

You know, oddly, with repetition, this is all starting to sound vaguely
familiar. I mean, I can't speak for anyone else here, but to me this looks
suspiciously like what cooks do in out of the way places like Italy, France,
Great Britain, Germany, Denmark, Sptizbergen, Swaziland, Sumatra, West
Allis, Sierra Leone, Canada, Sri Lanka, Mexico, Mongolia, Angola, Liberia,
Poland, Colombia, Archangel, Portugal, suburban Geneva, Georgia (no, the
other one), Greenland, Delhi (the city, not the sandwich shop......well,
o.k., maybe that too), Kamchatka, Kansas City, Khartoum, Kenosha, Kankakee,
Bolivia, Honduras, Hawaii, Terre Haute, Tahiti, Tangiers, Tanzania, Potch
Chee Nunk, Pittsburgh, Potsdam, Panama, Cairo, Cairo (most definitely NOT
the same place.....as anyone who has been forced to stay there for a weekend
by virtue of car trouble can attest!), Wellington, Washington, Westphalen,
West Allis (yeah, it's worth going back to......trust me), West by God
Virginia, Colonial Williamsburg (gotta love their Christmas coffee table
book!), Peru (no, the other one), Haiti, Cuba, Bermuda, Easter Island,
Christmas Island, Nomanisan Island, North Korea, South Korea, Chic Korea
(where all the smart shoppers go!), Vietnam, Vincennes, Vatican City,
Versailles (rhymes with Lauderdale's), Fort Lauderdale (see "Versailles"),
Chippendale's, Fort Atkinson, Fort Worth, Woolworth's, and Tiddly on the
Marsh. Which is to say that those who grew up there almost certainly did.
Others, maybe not.

HTH., really.

HOO! HOO!
HOO! HOO!
HOO! HOO!

Wolfgang
o.k., yeah, canada is a bit of a stretch.......call it culinary license.

wrote:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:53:30 -0600, Conan The Librarian
wrote:

wrote:


In article , Ken Fortenberry
writes

Paul Prudhomme is an American chef credited with making
Cajun cooking popular.

Um, not among Cajuns he ain't...they were eating it before he was
born...

Well, yeah ... and there was French cuisine before Julia Child came
on the scene, too.

No ****?

Yes, really. And yet she was still credited with making French
cuisine popular. (Just like Prudhomme was with Cajun food.)

There are no _recipes_ per se for much of Cajun or Creole cooking. Oh,
sure, there are "recipes" out there by the ton, but much of both styles
of cooking is simply cooking with what's available and adding cayenne,
thyme, garlic, a mirepoix-ish saute of onions, sweet/green/bell peppers,
and celery (no carrots ala French cooking), and Worchestershire to
individual taste. Very few Cajuns or Creoles make "standards" the same
way...which, I suppose, makes them, um, well, not standard, depending on
your POV.

So how would you suggest that a newcomer to Cajun food learn how to
cook it? I figure recipes might be a handy substitute for those of us
who don't have relatives who came over on the boats from Acadia.

Look at the general array of flavoring ingredients and techniques used
and go from there.

Hmmm ... do you think a cookbook might be a good place to look for
that sort of information?

There's nothing wrong with following a precise
recipe, but since most Cajun and Creole cooks really don't, there's no
reason that a person who is at least moderately familiar with food,
herbs and spices, and cooking should, either.

I dunno ... if someone asks about Cajun recipes I'd be inclined to
just give them Cajun recipes.


Chuck Vance (that's not really so hard, is it?)

"Conan The Librarian" wrote in message
...
wrote:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:53:30 -0600, Conan The Librarian
wrote:

wrote:


In article , Ken Fortenberry
writes

Paul Prudhomme is an American chef credited with making
Cajun cooking popular.

Um, not among Cajuns he ain't...they were eating it before he was
born...

Well, yeah ... and there was French cuisine before Julia Child came on
the scene, too.
No ****?

Yes, really. And yet she was still credited with making French cuisine
popular. (Just like Prudhomme was with Cajun food.)

There are no _recipes_ per se for much of Cajun or Creole cooking. Oh,
sure, there are "recipes" out there by the ton, but much of both styles
of cooking is simply cooking with what's available and adding cayenne,
thyme, garlic, a mirepoix-ish saute of onions, sweet/green/bell peppers,
and celery (no carrots ala French cooking), and Worchestershire to
individual taste. Very few Cajuns or Creoles make "standards" the same
way...which, I suppose, makes them, um, well, not standard, depending on
your POV.

So how would you suggest that a newcomer to Cajun food learn how to
cook it? I figure recipes might be a handy substitute for those of us
who don't have relatives who came over on the boats from Acadia.

Look at the general array of flavoring ingredients and techniques used
and go from there.

Hmmm ... do you think a cookbook might be a good place to look for that
sort of information?

There's nothing wrong with following a precise
recipe, but since most Cajun and Creole cooks really don't, there's no
reason that a person who is at least moderately familiar with food,
herbs and spices, and cooking should, either.

I dunno ... if someone asks about Cajun recipes I'd be inclined to
just give them Cajun recipes.


Chuck Vance (that's not really so hard, is it?)

Still, he DOES have a point. I mean, I have personally never dined in
single Canadian restaurant in the entire Milwaukee metropolitan area (or
even in all of Chicagoland, for that matter) in which the chef confessed to
using a recipe.

Wolfgang
who will leave the rather delicate question of whether they SHOULD have to
more refined palates.

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:49:32 -0600, Conan The Librarian
wrote:

wrote:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:53:30 -0600, Conan The Librarian
wrote:

wrote:


In article , Ken Fortenberry
writes

Paul Prudhomme is an American chef credited with making
Cajun cooking popular.

Um, not among Cajuns he ain't...they were eating it before he was
born...

Well, yeah ... and there was French cuisine before Julia Child came
on the scene, too.

No ****?

Yes, really. And yet she was still credited with making French
cuisine popular. (Just like Prudhomme was with Cajun food.)

FWIW, it was probably more to do with Justin Wilson than Prudhomme as
Prudhomme isn't really a "Cajun" chef, he's more of a Creole chef (he
got his start at Commander's), and his "blackened" redfish is neither
Creole or Cajun, but a happy accident.

There are no _recipes_ per se for much of Cajun or Creole cooking. Oh,
sure, there are "recipes" out there by the ton, but much of both styles
of cooking is simply cooking with what's available and adding cayenne,
thyme, garlic, a mirepoix-ish saute of onions, sweet/green/bell peppers,
and celery (no carrots ala French cooking), and Worchestershire to
individual taste. Very few Cajuns or Creoles make "standards" the same
way...which, I suppose, makes them, um, well, not standard, depending on
your POV.

So how would you suggest that a newcomer to Cajun food learn how to
cook it? I figure recipes might be a handy substitute for those of us
who don't have relatives who came over on the boats from Acadia.

Look at the general array of flavoring ingredients and techniques used
and go from there.

Hmmm ... do you think a cookbook might be a good place to look for
that sort of information?

No, I don't. I prefer to see and sample dishes and go from there,
whatever the cuisine. But I also realize that some have _no_ access to
trying certain things, and so, if you or they do need to use a cookbook
for a general sense of what ingredients are used, that's fine. But I'd
offer that attempting to use _recipes_ from a cookbook will not produce
"true" Cajun or Creole food.

There's nothing wrong with following a precise
recipe, but since most Cajun and Creole cooks really don't, there's no
reason that a person who is at least moderately familiar with food,
herbs and spices, and cooking should, either.

I dunno ... if someone asks about Cajun recipes I'd be inclined to
just give them Cajun recipes.

Cajun and Creole "recipes" aren't as structured as, for example, many
continental recipes (part. sauces), and are "morphed" from their native
meanings - for examples, ask 100 Cajuns and 100 Creoles for gumbo
"recipes" and you'll get about 500 "recipes," and, Creole grillades have
nothing to do with grilling - and as such, they don't really lend
themselves to recipes in the sense of a fixed list of ingredients with
precise amounts. IMO, it would be like trying to give someone a recipe
for "art" or "music." YMMV, of course.

TC,
R


Chuck Vance (that's not really so hard, is it?)

On 13 Dec, 10:30, "W. D. Grey" wrote:


Do you keep a toilet roll in the fridge, just in case ?....:-)
--
Bill Grey

I have had a few Cajun dishes, ( no idea of the recipes), and they
were very spicy indeed. Similar in some ways to some Spicy Indian or
other Asian food. The meals I had were very nice though. Quite popular
in Sweden. You need to listen to something like this while you are
eating it;

http://tinyurl.com/3cmsby

I enjoyed it anyway, and I like the music as well!

TL
MC

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:49:32 -0600, Conan The Librarian
wrote:

wrote:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:53:30 -0600, Conan The Librarian
wrote:

wrote:


In article , Ken Fortenberry
writes

Paul Prudhomme is an American chef credited with making
Cajun cooking popular.

Um, not among Cajuns he ain't...they were eating it before he was
born...

Well, yeah ... and there was French cuisine before Julia Child came
on the scene, too.

No ****?

Yes, really. And yet she was still credited with making French
cuisine popular. (Just like Prudhomme was with Cajun food.)

FWIW, it was probably more to do with Justin Wilson than Prudhomme as
Prudhomme isn't really a "Cajun" chef, he's more of a Creole chef (he
got his start at Commander's), and his "blackened" redfish is neither
Creole or Cajun, but a happy accident.

There are no _recipes_ per se for much of Cajun or Creole cooking. Oh,
sure, there are "recipes" out there by the ton, but much of both styles
of cooking is simply cooking with what's available and adding cayenne,
thyme, garlic, a mirepoix-ish saute of onions, sweet/green/bell
peppers,
and celery (no carrots ala French cooking), and Worchestershire to
individual taste. Very few Cajuns or Creoles make "standards" the same
way...which, I suppose, makes them, um, well, not standard, depending
on
your POV.

So how would you suggest that a newcomer to Cajun food learn how to
cook it? I figure recipes might be a handy substitute for those of us
who don't have relatives who came over on the boats from Acadia.

Look at the general array of flavoring ingredients and techniques used
and go from there.

Hmmm ... do you think a cookbook might be a good place to look for
that sort of information?

No, I don't. I prefer to see and sample dishes and go from there,
whatever the cuisine. But I also realize that some have _no_ access to
trying certain things, and so, if you or they do need to use a cookbook
for a general sense of what ingredients are used, that's fine. But I'd
offer that attempting to use _recipes_ from a cookbook will not produce
"true" Cajun or Creole food.

There's nothing wrong with following a precise
recipe, but since most Cajun and Creole cooks really don't, there's no
reason that a person who is at least moderately familiar with food,
herbs and spices, and cooking should, either.

I dunno ... if someone asks about Cajun recipes I'd be inclined to
just give them Cajun recipes.

Cajun and Creole "recipes" aren't as structured as, for example, many
continental recipes (part. sauces), and are "morphed" from their native
meanings - for examples, ask 100 Cajuns and 100 Creoles for gumbo
"recipes" and you'll get about 500 "recipes," and, Creole grillades have
nothing to do with grilling - and as such, they don't really lend
themselves to recipes in the sense of a fixed list of ingredients with
precise amounts. IMO, it would be like trying to give someone a recipe
for "art" or "music." YMMV, of course.

And so it turns out that, as is so often the case here, this whole brouhaha
is the result of yet another simple misunderstanding, resulting from a
failure to state the case clearly and simply.

Cajun and Creole cooks (in their native habitat) don't write recipes for the
things they cook because no one (in their native habitat) can read them.

Wolfgang
hey, it ain't nothin to embarrassed about......my sicilian grandmother, my
french grandmother, my german grandmother, my russian grandmother, my polish
grandmother, my sonoran grandmother, my michoahacan grandmother, my
vietnamese grandmother, my mandarin grandmother, my hungarian grandmother,
my orthodox jewish grandmother, my greek grandmother, my persian
grandmother, my tatar grandmother, and my puerto rican grandmother couldn't
read either. doesn't matter......they passed their recipe (such as it is)on
to me orally and, unlike those crazy cajuns and creoles, they ALL made their
samosas EXACTLY the same way anyhow!

A perfect example:

I Googled "grillades" so as to perhaps post a link, and the first hit
produced is this description:

"This is a terrific, hearty meal that is generally eaten at breakfast or
brunch in New Orleans, I like it for a Sunday evening meal. Grillades
(pronounced GREE-yahds) are made with Round Steak, of Beef or Veal,
although you could use pork. This dish like many other greats from New
Orleans, comes from meager times, when a piece of meat needed to be
stretched to feed a whole family. A Grillade is a square of meat cut
from the Round Steak, or whichever piece of meat that you've chosen. I
love to take an inexpensive, tough cut of meat, and turn it into
something spectacular! Round Steak is a powerhouse of flavor, that with
some time and tenderness will be tender and mouthwatering.
Grits have never really caught on with most Yankees, I don't understand
this because a lot of folks go crazy over Polenta, which is basically a
yellow version of Grits. I personally think it's all about the name;
Polenta flows from the tongue, while the word Grits comes from your
mouth like a shotgun blast! This dish will also go nicely with Boiled
Rice, but please try it with the Grits, they take on the flavor of the
sauce in a really nice, creamy way. I prefer the longer cooking Grits,
sometimes called Old Fashioned, which are a little bit harder to find up
north as opposed to the instant variety. If you're not crazy about just
plain old Grits, get fancy and serve this alongside Caryn's Gorgonzola
Grit Cakes from Delicious! Delicious!."

It then proceeds to give a _recipe_ that, well, isn't contradicted by
the above description, but is not really the way many make it (including
everyone I know who makes it). It seemingly, however, would produce
something that most would recognize.

http://neworleanscuisine.blogspot.co...lades-and.html

Then compare the above to the description followed by the recipe from
John Folse, who says grillades are slivers of pork, but follows it with
a somewhat different round steak _recipe_:

http://www.jfolse.com/recipes/breakf...reakfast07.htm

It isn't the way folks I know make it either, but again, they'd
generally recognize it as "grillades."

TC,
R

wrote:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:49:32 -0600, Conan The Librarian
wrote:

Yes, really. And yet she was still credited with making French
cuisine popular. (Just like Prudhomme was with Cajun food.)

FWIW, it was probably more to do with Justin Wilson than Prudhomme as
Prudhomme isn't really a "Cajun" chef, he's more of a Creole chef (he
got his start at Commander's), and his "blackened" redfish is neither
Creole or Cajun, but a happy accident.

His formal training may have been Creole rather than Cajun, (and I
daresay the distinction is lost on most folks), but he helped
"mainstream" (gawd I hate using nouns as verbs) ingredients and cooking
techniques from both cuisines.

I see Wilson as a great self-promoter, but don't really see any
lasting impact from him (except maybe his cute "cajunisms").

Hmmm ... do you think a cookbook might be a good place to look for
that sort of information?

No, I don't. I prefer to see and sample dishes and go from there,
whatever the cuisine. But I also realize that some have _no_ access to
trying certain things,

I dunno about you, but that was my assumption on getting a request
from a Welshman for Cajun recipes. :-)

and so, if you or they do need to use a cookbook
for a general sense of what ingredients are used, that's fine. But I'd
offer that attempting to use _recipes_ from a cookbook will not produce
"true" Cajun or Creole food.

Of course. Attempting to cook using recipes from *any* regional
cuisine isn't likely to produce "true" anything. But sometimes the cook
doesn't show up, and I'm too tuckered out after a long day at work to
jet off to New Orleans. Sadly, then I just have to struggle by making
up something from a cookbook.


Chuck Vance (what's a poor boy to do?)

wrote in message
...
A perfect example:

I Googled "grillades" so as to perhaps post a link, and the first hit
produced is this description:

"This is a terrific, hearty meal that is generally eaten at breakfast or
brunch in New Orleans, I like it for a Sunday evening meal. Grillades
(pronounced GREE-yahds) are made with Round Steak, of Beef or Veal,
although you could use pork. This dish like many other greats from New
Orleans, comes from meager times, when a piece of meat needed to be
stretched to feed a whole family. A Grillade is a square of meat cut
from the Round Steak, or whichever piece of meat that you've chosen. I
love to take an inexpensive, tough cut of meat, and turn it into
something spectacular! Round Steak is a powerhouse of flavor, that with
some time and tenderness will be tender and mouthwatering.
Grits have never really caught on with most Yankees, I don't understand
this because a lot of folks go crazy over Polenta, which is basically a
yellow version of Grits. I personally think it's all about the name;
Polenta flows from the tongue, while the word Grits comes from your
mouth like a shotgun blast! This dish will also go nicely with Boiled
Rice, but please try it with the Grits, they take on the flavor of the
sauce in a really nice, creamy way. I prefer the longer cooking Grits,
sometimes called Old Fashioned, which are a little bit harder to find up
north as opposed to the instant variety. If you're not crazy about just
plain old Grits, get fancy and serve this alongside Caryn's Gorgonzola
Grit Cakes from Delicious! Delicious!."

It then proceeds to give a _recipe_ that, well, isn't contradicted by
the above description, but is not really the way many make it (including
everyone I know who makes it). It seemingly, however, would produce
something that most would recognize.

http://neworleanscuisine.blogspot.co...lades-and.html

Then compare the above to the description followed by the recipe from
John Folse, who says grillades are slivers of pork, but follows it with
a somewhat different round steak _recipe_:

http://www.jfolse.com/recipes/breakf...reakfast07.htm

It isn't the way folks I know make it either, but again, they'd
generally recognize it as "grillades."

O.k., seriously, do you believe that there is just ONE recipe in this world
for lasagna? sauerbraten? dolmades? enchiladas? pirogy? lo mein? chicken
pullao?

Do you actually think there's something unique about food preparation in the
region you live in based on whether or not people consult written recipes?

Is there ANYTHING in this world that you really DO know something about?

Wolfgang
the only thing more amazing than people thinking they can get away with
demented crap like this is that they're right.