Fore!

wilii wrote:
wrote:

I've come to the conclusion that the contest wasn't against DOW
regulations. The published regulations are confusing and were meant to
only to apply to contests that involved tagged or marked fish. I think
that the DOW SHOULD regulate all types of contests.


Here's another response I got from one of the DOW persons that I found
promising:


William,



Thanks for your e-mail question below about the National Fly Fishing Championship contest described below.

The only fishing contests that the Colorado Division of Wildlife (CDOW)
regulates are those using tagged or marked

released fish. In looking through the website for that event, since it
is a contest that does not involve tagged

or marked released fish then what they did was not illegal on in direct
violation of CDOW regulations. Unfortunately,

our fishing brochure does not make this clear and I could see where you
could interpret that what they did was in violation.



However, I do have the same concerns that a contest such as this could possibly have an impact on the fishery resource.

I am copying the Wildlife Officers located in that area so that if this
organization hosts other events like this in Colorado

in the future, we can monitor if they are truly having an impact on our
fisheries. It is too late for this year since

the event has already occurred the first part of this month.



Thank you for your concern about our Colorado wildlife.



Sincerely,

Bob Thompson

Assistant Chief of Law Enforcement

Colorado Division of Wildlife

6060 Broadway, Denver, CO 80216



The responses I got from CO TU had IMO, a very sanctimonious tone
stressing that there was no way that TU would sanction anything that
would harm the resource (unlike a Bass tournament which they implied was
harmful). I got responses from two board members and it was interesting
that they both had the same message. I get the impression they had to
address this in the past and got a party line worked out. Their message
was, basically, the contest was a benefit to the resource because of
educational value, volunteer recruitment, and money generated. Since it
was C&R and involved "class individuals" the resource wasn't impacted.

Willi

Willi, thanks very much for posting this. I got a fairly good response
from the CDOW as well, which I have copied below my .sig. Hey thanks
very much WIlli and thanks guys in general. Jonathon, Sandy, Wayno,
dudes...it's great to be yakkin; with ya all. It's certainly a
blessing.

Anyway, here's the letters.

Your pal,

Tim
===== Response and reply to CDOW Below

Tim,

The Colorado Division of Wildlife (CDOW) only regulates fishing contest
using tagged or marked released fish. I can see where one can
mis-interpret in the 2006 fishing brochure under "Special Conditions
and Restrictions" under number "8." on page six (6). On the
inside of the first page at the bottom there is a disclaimer "NOTE:
Laws and regulations in this brochure are paraphrased for easier
understanding and are intended only as a guide. The official Colorado
fishing statutes and regulations are available for viewing at DOW
offices." I agree that people view the brochure as the law or
regulation and it should state or paraphrase the law or regulation
accurately. In this case mentioned above, I don't think the CDOW did
a good job on paraphrasing and I will forward that information on to
the regulation review committee.



I'm not sure where you find the reference that you can take 20 trout
in the fishing brochure? You can review the Wildlife Commission
Regulations on the internet at
http://wildlife.state.co.us/RulesRegs/Regulations/. The fishing
regulations are in Chapter 1 and the regulation referencing fishing
contest is #106 on page six of that chapter.



The CDOW continues to strive to make our brochures accurately reflect
what the law or regulation is. I appreciate you pointing this out and
hopefully we can correct it in future brochures. If you do not agree
with the current regulation on fishing contests then it needs to be
brought forward as an issue to the Wildlife Commission.



Thank you for your concern about our Colorado wildlife.



Sincerely,

Bob Thompson

Assistant Chief of Law Enforcement

Colorado Division of Wildlife

6060 Broadway, Denver, CO 80216

(303) 291-7342







-----Original Message-----
From: Wildlife, Info
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 4:19 PM
To: Thompson, Bob
Subject: FW: Fishing Competition on Streams and Rvers





-----Original Message-----
From: Wildlife, Info
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 3:35 PM
To: Wildlife, Info
Subject: Fishing Competition on Streams and Rvers
FAQ Question from Web
http://wildlife.state.co.us/apps/askdow/


Division: Division of Wildlife
Subject: Fishing Competition on Streams and Rvers
Topic: Applications & Licensing
Subtopic: Fishing
From: Tim Walker
DOB: 09/22/58
Senders Email:
Question or Message: Dear Sir, I complained to the division 3 years ago
about a competitive flyfishing event on the St. Vrain near the town of
Lyons being in direct violation of section 8 of the colorado fishing
regulations. At that time, I was told that there was a discrepency
between the 'real' regulations and the 'printed' version. Just recently
I complained about the International Fly Fishing competition on the So.
Platte and was told the exact same thing. Since I view the regulations
as the law and now I am told that they are not, please understand that,
as far as I'm concerned the state wide bag limit is 20 trout and the
regulations are printed in error. Is this an OK assumption or can you
tell me why you maintain two different sets of regulations? Thank you,
Tim Walker
Address: 2537 Swee****er
Lafayette, co80026
Telephone: (303) 552-2047
CC#: 193561529

Reply Reply to all Forward Invite Bob to Gmail


Your message has been sent.

Tim Walker
to Bob, Info, Rob, Brighid
More options 6:45 pm (0 minutes ago)
Hi Bob,

Thank you very, very much for this thoughtful response.

It was 2 or 3 years ago that I complained about the same thing
regarding a competition in Lyons. In my estimation, it is not only
possible for misenterpretation: it is very clear, but wrong. This is a
problem in a regulations pamphlet and it's not fair.

Regardless, I would suggest that you read the discussion in the
rec.outdoors.fishing.fly group in Google. I think that most people
would favor it the way it reads. We can not attend the round tables as
much as the folks in the industry, we're just regular fishermen. I have
been flyfishing in Colorado since 1966 and was a huge proponent of the
first "fishing is fun" waters, which, as you know, was one of the very
first pure catch and release waters in Colorado. In retrospect I wonder
if this was the right choice.

The reference to the 20 fish bag limit was a serious statement. It
speaks to the importance that the requirement that regulations you
distribute being a reasonably accurate contract with the license
holder. Please understand that I read them cover to cover and I act on
them to the letter of the law.

It is my hope that, not only you correct it in the pamphlet, but that
the division looks hard at this issue in a larger sense and considers
it the way it reads.. As a license holder I favor a basic flyfishing
regulation based on an ethic similar to that finally derived by the
Norwegian Dept of Agriculture in 1999 [at the following link, great
read]:

http://org.nlh.no/etikkutvalget/English/catch.htm

I thank you very much for the response and your time.

Sincerely,

Tim

"Kiyu" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:36:19 -0400, "Mr. Opus McDopus"
My newsgroup day was going very well up until this point.G

Kiyu

Just think how I feel after a few slices of toast and some of mother's *OLD*
blackberry jam!

Op --I gotta eat the stuff, or risk being 'ritten out of mother's will (a
quite sizeable will too, I might add, if ya count the 120 lb. German
Shepard), but the poor bastids I give mother's jam to haven't got a clue!--

Willi wrote:
wrote:
Willi wrote:

wrote:

Wet golf with living biological golf balls has officially come to
colorado. Needless to say I'l not be sending my dues to the Colorado
Troutmasters or was that Tournaments Unlimited this year.

How any organization can simultaneously promote flyfishing competition
while pretending to understand the word "wild" (and even emblazen this
word on license plate bling) is entirely beyond my capacity to
understand. There are so many things wrong with this it's not even
funny. I wonder how they would feel about paint ball hunting deer? I'd
sure like to have a conversation with someone trying to explain the
difference to me.

http://www.nationalflyfishingchampio...ion_rules.html

Which is in direct conflict with the rules of fishing in Colorado which
prohibit contests on moving water (see paragraph 8).

http://wildlife.state.co.us/NR/rdonl...shbrochure.pdf

Eventually all things merge in to one and a golf match runs through it.


TBone



Fishing contests like this are CLEARLY in violation of the 2006 Colorado
DOW regulations. I emailed several people at Colorado TU, and the
Colorado DOW. I'll be interested to see what, if any, response I get.

PS How's the competition Bass fishing going Tim? Got any holes in one?

Willi


FWIW - I talked with a gentleman today who was fishing the Platte
during the contest. In the morning he was told by one judge that there
would be a contest but who was otherwise polite but pretty much told
them to scat. Later on as more judges arrived they became more and more
rude. They were surly and intimidating. The regulation is also clear on
this...on still waters, where approval for a contest has been granted,
fishing MUST stay open to the public during the contest.

Next year I'm rocking the ****ers.

TBone



"I appreciate your concerns, and will try to respond briefly to them.

First, with regard to fishing regulations, the actual DOW regulations
limit fishing contests using marked/tagged fish; we coordinated with DOW
to ensure that the National Fly Fishing Championships were consistent
with their regulations and indeed had DOW represented on the event
steering committee to ensure communication and compliance. The event
was strictly catch-and-release, and public anglers were not excluded
from the areas used (all of the areas we used for venues had that as a
requirement). The event did not violate any DOW regulations.

The more general question - why would TU be involved in this - the
answer is three-fold. First, is educational value. The event provided
a forum from which we could build greater awareness about fly fishing
and conservation. For example, as part of the competition we had
stringent gear-cleaning protocols in place to ensure that exotic species
like mud snails and whirling disease were not spread; this was included
in some print and TV coverage of the event and will help raise angler
awareness about what they as individuals can do to follow this example.
The event also included a Conservation Symposium with displays and
speakers from various agencies, conservation groups, etc. - creating a
platform for public education on those issues. Second, is volunteer
recruitment. The event drew in around 100 volunteers, many of whom had
not been active volunteers in the past but plan to be involved in the
future. Third, is fundraising. While this year's event will have a
very modest net, it has the potential to raise significant dollars for
conservation. For example, the Jackson Hole One-Fly event raises
$300,000 per year for conservation, and while we aren't expecting to
reach that level we should be able to raise significant dollars for
conservation.

The participants in this event were class individuals with a real
dedication to fly fishing and to conservation. It was an amateur,
Olympic-style event with no money on the line, only pride and the
opportunity to represent the U.S. at the World Championships later this
summer. If your concept of competitive fishing is based on what you see
with things like professional bass fishing, this event is nothing like
that. Certainly events like this aren't for everyone, but it is not
contrary to our mission for conserving, protecting, and restoring
Colorado's trout habitats.
[snip]

Hmmm....

http://www.durangoherald.com/asp-bin...ut060623_1.htm

Not one mention on our buddy the mud snail.

Your pal,

TBone

wrote:
Willi wrote:
wrote:
Willi wrote:

wrote:

Wet golf with living biological golf balls has officially come to
colorado. Needless to say I'l not be sending my dues to the Colorado
Troutmasters or was that Tournaments Unlimited this year.

How any organization can simultaneously promote flyfishing competition
while pretending to understand the word "wild" (and even emblazen this
word on license plate bling) is entirely beyond my capacity to
understand. There are so many things wrong with this it's not even
funny. I wonder how they would feel about paint ball hunting deer? I'd
sure like to have a conversation with someone trying to explain the
difference to me.

http://www.nationalflyfishingchampio...ion_rules.html

Which is in direct conflict with the rules of fishing in Colorado which
prohibit contests on moving water (see paragraph 8).

http://wildlife.state.co.us/NR/rdonl...shbrochure.pdf

Eventually all things merge in to one and a golf match runs through it.


TBone



Fishing contests like this are CLEARLY in violation of the 2006 Colorado
DOW regulations. I emailed several people at Colorado TU, and the
Colorado DOW. I'll be interested to see what, if any, response I get.

PS How's the competition Bass fishing going Tim? Got any holes in one?

Willi


FWIW - I talked with a gentleman today who was fishing the Platte
during the contest. In the morning he was told by one judge that there
would be a contest but who was otherwise polite but pretty much told
them to scat. Later on as more judges arrived they became more and more
rude. They were surly and intimidating. The regulation is also clear on
this...on still waters, where approval for a contest has been granted,
fishing MUST stay open to the public during the contest.

Next year I'm rocking the ****ers.

TBone



"I appreciate your concerns, and will try to respond briefly to them.

First, with regard to fishing regulations, the actual DOW regulations
limit fishing contests using marked/tagged fish; we coordinated with DOW
to ensure that the National Fly Fishing Championships were consistent
with their regulations and indeed had DOW represented on the event
steering committee to ensure communication and compliance. The event
was strictly catch-and-release, and public anglers were not excluded
from the areas used (all of the areas we used for venues had that as a
requirement). The event did not violate any DOW regulations.

The more general question - why would TU be involved in this - the
answer is three-fold. First, is educational value. The event provided
a forum from which we could build greater awareness about fly fishing
and conservation. For example, as part of the competition we had
stringent gear-cleaning protocols in place to ensure that exotic species
like mud snails and whirling disease were not spread; this was included
in some print and TV coverage of the event and will help raise angler
awareness about what they as individuals can do to follow this example.
The event also included a Conservation Symposium with displays and
speakers from various agencies, conservation groups, etc. - creating a
platform for public education on those issues. Second, is volunteer
recruitment. The event drew in around 100 volunteers, many of whom had
not been active volunteers in the past but plan to be involved in the
future. Third, is fundraising. While this year's event will have a
very modest net, it has the potential to raise significant dollars for
conservation. For example, the Jackson Hole One-Fly event raises
$300,000 per year for conservation, and while we aren't expecting to
reach that level we should be able to raise significant dollars for
conservation.

The participants in this event were class individuals with a real
dedication to fly fishing and to conservation. It was an amateur,
Olympic-style event with no money on the line, only pride and the
opportunity to represent the U.S. at the World Championships later this
summer. If your concept of competitive fishing is based on what you see
with things like professional bass fishing, this event is nothing like
that. Certainly events like this aren't for everyone, but it is not
contrary to our mission for conserving, protecting, and restoring
Colorado's trout habitats.
[snip]

Hmmm....

http://www.durangoherald.com/asp-bin...ut060623_1.htm

Not one mention on our buddy the mud snail.

[snip]

Nor here.

http://www.flyfishingteamusa.com/Tea...onynaranja.htm

I'm beginning to doubt the sincerity that this is about promoting
awareness of conservation.

Your pal,

Halfordian Golfer
A cash flow runs through it