Put and Kill -so disgusting

Ernie wrote:

Steve,
Most of California's lakes and streams are capable of natural reproduction.
The ones that aren't are usually because man screwed them up with logging,
mining, damming, and overgrazing.
The Department of Fish and Game spends a huge percentage of their budget
on fish hatcheries, but they should be restoring the habitat.

In Colorado, a positive aspect to the introduction of whirling disease
was the end of stocking catchables in streams and rivers. "All" the
hatcheries were infected with WD and they decided to halt stocking in
streams and rivers with natural reproduction.

Now that they have clean hatcheries again, they have started stocking
some streams and rivers, but the numbers are WAY down. Charlie W. and I
have talked about this and we both feeling that fish populations (and
the quality of fish) have increased when stocking halted. I hope our DOW
doesn't go back to their old ways.

Willi

Ernie wrote:


For some reason our nearsighted Fish and Game and National Forest Service
can't see the advantage of having clear running streams with stable banks
and clean water with natural reproducing fish. It would beat the hell out
of fishing for finless rubber hatchery trout.
Ernie

Montana's division of wildlife did a series of studies on the effects of
stocking catchable trout in rivers with populations of naturally
reproducing fish. They found that stocking "catchables" actually reduced
the overall fish carrying capacity of the sections of rivers they studied.

Willi

"Jeff Miller" wrote in message
news:3p9lb.95857$AH4.44122@lakeread06...
i agree. we need more conveniently-placed, handicap-accessible put
and
take fisheries.

Hm.......

As handicap access is not your area of particular expertise,
counselor, I hasten to remind you that "a marginal capacity to jog up
six miles of indiscernible trail in the dark, wade wet for several
hours in marrow freezing water, and then sprint back down the trail,
leaving a parched fishing companion choking in dust, to get the pick
of a rapidly dwindling beer supply back at the truck" is not a
universally accepted definition of "handicapped". We do things
somewhat differently up here.

Wolfgang
not to mention the disconcerting reflection on being left alone with
all the bitey things in the woods.

If they only planted hatchery fish in waters that couldn't reproduce, used
catch and release in waters that could, kept livestock back from the
streams, stopped loggers from destroying the habitat, kept mining under
control, stopped pollution and restricted water projects from taking the
water needed for the fisheries, this state would be one great fishing
statye.
Ernie

I agree. Now what do you plan to do with all the people who live there?

----
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

Ernie,
I agree with you 100 percent.

--
James Ehlers

Outdoors Magazine
www.outdoorsmagazine.net
"Ernie" wrote in message
. ..
James,
I have no objection to stocking where natural reproduction can't take
place. Stocking places where natural reproduction is possible is
detrimental to natural trout.
Ernie

"James Ehlers" wrote in message
. net...
Why be disgusted at something that gives people pleasure? Happy people
are
nicer to be around Relatively harmless activity in most states
where
put and take stocking occurs where natives would not exist anyway.

--
James Ehlers

Outdoors Magazine



www.outdoorsmagazine.net
"Ernie" wrote in message
. ..
Yes,
1. Stocked trout don't belong in any water where natural reproduction
is
possible.
2. Only Catch and Release should be allowed in these waters.
I came across a bunch of hatchery trout in a lake that people were
trying
to catch. I told them to throw a hand full of small gravel at them.
They
did, which sent the fish into a feeding frenzy and they started
catching
them. I walked away in disgust and wondered if any of the people knew
what
it was like to catch a real trout with a full set of fins.
Ernie

"Gene C" wrote
Even more amazing was the fact that within a couple of hours
of going into the water they were going after woolly buggers!
Any comments?

Well said, Stev.

--
James Ehlers

Outdoors Magazine
www.outdoorsmagazine.net
"slenon" wrote in message
m...
I have no objection to stocking where natural reproduction can't take
place. Stocking places where natural reproduction is possible is
detrimental to natural trout.
Ernie

I'd be curious to know the exact number of states which have naturally
reproducing trout populations. Of that number, how many had to have trout
introduced into them to establish that population?

While hatchery trout may not taste or fight like wild trout, and while put
&
take fishing is far less desirable than stalking and catching fish from
natural populations, such programs do provide money that goes into
conservation budgets. The people who make use of such programs not only
buy
licenses but rods, reels, flies, lines and all the cute little gadgets
that
make other fly fishers happy. Many of them will never fling flies anyplace
else. Some will progress and move onto other waters.

Having such places actually does decrease pressure on natural populations
in
marginal waters.

While the purists among us can sneer and moan about such things, there are
many people who are quite happily served by such fishing arrangements.
And
everyone of them who fishes there is not standing next to you throwing his
line over yours.

When I grew up, where I grew up, seafood consisted of breaded, fried
shrimp
shipped frozen and tasteless. I was fortunate to move and find out that
other seafood existed. Even today, there are parts of the nation where
"red
lobster" provides the best seafood available. Sad but true.

----
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

We are trying to do just that here in Vermont.

--
James Ehlers

Outdoors Magazine
www.outdoorsmagazine.net


"Jeff Miller" wrote in message
news:3p9lb.95857$AH4.44122@lakeread06...
i agree. we need more conveniently-placed, handicap-accessible put and
take fisheries.

jeff

James Ehlers wrote:

Why be disgusted at something that gives people pleasure? Happy people
are
nicer to be around Relatively harmless activity in most states
where
put and take stocking occurs where natives would not exist anyway.

Willi,
Now is your chance to get them to spend the money on improving habitat
instead of spending it on hatcheries.
Montana studies show that stocking hatchery trout will reduce the overall
number of stocked and non stocked trout that will live in the stream.
California Fish & Game is too dense to accept this, but perhaps Colorado DOW
will.
I would like to see an electric fence unit which ran on solar cells. It
should have a built in radio transmitter that would transmit an occasional
coded radio signal to show that the unit was operating ok, or was in trouble
(line went open, became grounded, had low batteries). This would alert
someone to come and fix it. The unit should be maintenance free and easily
replaced.
One man with a Jeep and pulling a trailer full of wire and metal fence
posts could easily set the posts, string the wire and install the units. Two
strands of barbed wire should be about right. Livestock should be kept
fifty feet from the stream. This would let the banks stabilize, improve
water quality, and provide good habitat for fish and small game.
Ernie

"Willi" wrote in message
...
In Colorado, a positive aspect to the introduction of whirling disease
was the end of stocking catchables in streams and rivers. "All" the
hatcheries were infected with WD and they decided to halt stocking in
streams and rivers with natural reproduction.

Now that they have clean hatcheries again, they have started stocking
some streams and rivers, but the numbers are WAY down. Charlie W. and I
have talked about this and we both feeling that fish populations (and
the quality of fish) have increased when stocking halted. I hope our DOW
doesn't go back to their old ways.
Willi

Corporate welfare.

john

"Gene C" wrote in message
om...
I find this extremely depressing on many levels.

I was out of town for a couple of days in the middle of last week. I
got home and knew that they were supposed to complete the fall
stocking for Elk Creek in Cecil County Maryland. They did. On Friday
afternoon they completed it. They put a lot of nice fish in the
creek. Me, and two other fly fisherman must have a caught a dozen
fish. Most of them were in the 12 to 15 inch range. That was
amazing! Even more amazing was the fact that within a couple of hours
of going into the water they were going after woolly buggers! Of the
12 or so fish we caught, one guy kept one.

I fished again on Sunday for a while and the vast majority of the fish
were gone! One guy had 5 real nice ones on a stringer laying in
shallow water.

Now I know put-and-take has it's place in fisheries management but
these fish could have been there all winter. The water temps are
right. The food might be a little scarce for that many fish but we
could have had fun catching them for the next 5 months!

I'm not a fan of PETA but I also see no point in pushing fish to a
slow death of suffocation.

Maybe I'm misguided but that mentality seems so selfish, so short
sighted? I know this is the reality but..? Maybe all streams should
have delayed harvest for a couple of weeks after stocking. That would
allow the people who want to CATCH fish a chance to do so before the
meat men arrive and yank them all out of the water for good.
Any comments?

hmmm...hint-hint: if we get all those other folks focused on the easy
access, lotsa big fish areas by the well-traveled roads, that trail we
were on can be run without bumpin into anybody else.

and, as far as up there, being slowly but incessantly devoured by flies
and skeeters makes a jog down a nc mountain trail seem quite pleasant,
don't it? ...

jeff

Wolfgang wrote:

"Jeff Miller" wrote in message
news:3p9lb.95857$AH4.44122@lakeread06...

i agree. we need more conveniently-placed, handicap-accessible put

and

take fisheries.


Hm.......

As handicap access is not your area of particular expertise,
counselor, I hasten to remind you that "a marginal capacity to jog up
six miles of indiscernible trail in the dark, wade wet for several
hours in marrow freezing water, and then sprint back down the trail,
leaving a parched fishing companion choking in dust, to get the pick
of a rapidly dwindling beer supply back at the truck" is not a
universally accepted definition of "handicapped". We do things
somewhat differently up here.

Wolfgang
not to mention the disconcerting reflection on being left alone with
all the bitey things in the woods.