bootfoot wader question

"Wayne Knight" wrote in message
ups.com...

JackL@EpicOdyssey wrote:

Hi Wayne:

[more good advise snipped.]

Jack meet Myron. Myron meet Jack ,g


Hi Jack. I'm a fishing addict.

--Myron

"riverman" wrote in message
...
SNIP
The *backcast* loads the rod, NOT the beginning of the frontcast. His
point
(which is accepted, btw) is that we all do this horizontally: false cast
parallel to the bank before we release out over the water, perpendicular
to
the direction of our false casts. The V-shaped cast is just a vertical
application of this 'around the corner' horizontal cast. Except that I
couldn't do it.

--riverman



Not true. A good caster under normal circumstances will attempt to remove
any load from the rod at all on the backcast, ( Drifting!). The forward
stroke ( unless you are doing pre-loading tricks, with shooting heads etc),
is all that loads the rod.

In order to get the line to go where you want it to, you merely need to move
the rod tip in that direction. No matter what direction your back cast is,
the main purpose is to get the line stretched out from the rod tip in a
straight line, with no slack. This also works if you cast the line straight
up. The forward motion is more of a thrust and flick, than in a "normal"
back/forward cast in the horizontal plane.

TL
MC

http://www.sexyloops.com/articles/drifting.shtml

http://www.sexyloops.com/movies/drift.shtml

http://www.sexyloops.com/flycasting/extendeddrift.shtml

http://www.sexyloops.com/beginners/pennydrop.shtml

TL
MC

"Wayne Knight" wrote in message
oups.com...

riverman wrote:

Your thoughts, Master?


I think:

1. You should pay more attention to what Charlie is saying, I think you
misunderstand the dyanmics of the cast. Charilie is right about the tip
direction.

I never doubted him. It was a level of casting analysis I hadn't done, and
it was a good discussion. I merely told him what my misconceptions were, and
he set me straight, in his inimitable way. g

2. Next time you are in civilization, you need to take your rods to a
well stocked fly shop and try some different lines, including maybe one
weight up or down, your rods should load *as well* at the 12:00
position, 11:00 position, or the 9:00 position.

Hmm, good idea. I think my rods load at all positions, depending on how tidy
my retrieve is. What I need is more practice with different style casts, I
believe. Watching some folks model them would likely help.


3. Both Kreh and Jaworski have stated longer casts benefit from longer
strokes so your rationale that you cast farther using a 9:00 stop
versus an 11:00 stop makes sense.


Ahh, a lucky hit! :-) But I'm confused about the 9:00 vs 11:00 thing....I
stop my casts at 11:00 instead of *2:00* ("think UP, not back..."). Oh
wait!! I cast with my right hand....are we getting our clocks reversed? Is
there any standardization to this?

4. If after doing #2, you don't find improvement, I would be looking at
the rods and trying different models and makers to find the one that
*fits* you. This of course involves spending money you may or may not
have but may help you in the long run. Most folks know that I love
Winston rods generically speaking. But what most people don't know is
that I found the Winston LT five weight to be one of the worse rods
ever made because how I cast and how that rod cast could not mesh. Most
folks I know fishing the LT love them.

Ahh, now THATs an idea I like! I think some rod swapping at different claves
might be in the making, also. Is that done?

5. Practice change of direction casts, practice using your backcast as
your forward cast. They are ackward, but things that can make your
success rate better. One of the hardest things for me to learn was to
do what jarmo was talking about casting parallel to the river then
changing direction perpendicular. Try moving your rod tip to the left
and righ as you practice your final forward cast and watch how the fly
line moves in relationship to the tippet end.

These are things I regularly do. I picked up a book ("The basics of Fly
Fishing" by someoneorother) that showed how to cast in a crowded wood: face
the trees, cast *into* an open space in the trees, and let the backcast be
your delivery cast. I also do this sometimes in windy conditions when I'm on
the wrong side of a river: turn around and cast the wrong way, letting the
backcast be the delivery.

I've gotten pretty dependable with casting parallel to the river, then
delivering the fly _across_ the river. That works well in crowded growth
situations. But I never really analyzed what my hands or rod were doing; I
just 'do it' and it works out well.


6. Pay more attention to what Charlie stated. You want your fly to go
in a certain direction, then you gots to point the rod tip in the right
place.

OK.

And Grasshopper, I am no master, if you want a master ask Mike or post
this on the Fly Fisherman website, at least three masters post there
regularly.


I had several nice days of casting practice with Mike, both at the Denmark
Clave and again at his house the next year. Again, it was less emphasis on
the _mechanics_ of what happens, and more on just 'doing it'. I never
pretend to be an advanced caster: I think I might score a C- or D+ on the
casting scale. Roger and Mike, on the other hand, amaze me.

--riverman

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

"riverman" wrote in message
...
SNIP
The *backcast* loads the rod, NOT the beginning of the frontcast. His
point
(which is accepted, btw) is that we all do this horizontally: false cast
parallel to the bank before we release out over the water, perpendicular
to
the direction of our false casts. The V-shaped cast is just a vertical
application of this 'around the corner' horizontal cast. Except that I
couldn't do it.

--riverman



Not true. A good caster under normal circumstances will attempt to remove
any load from the rod at all on the backcast, ( Drifting!). The forward
stroke ( unless you are doing pre-loading tricks, with shooting heads
etc),
is all that loads the rod.

In order to get the line to go where you want it to, you merely need to
move
the rod tip in that direction. No matter what direction your back cast
is,
the main purpose is to get the line stretched out from the rod tip in a
straight line, with no slack. This also works if you cast the line
straight
up. The forward motion is more of a thrust and flick, than in a "normal"
back/forward cast in the horizontal plane.

TL
MC

Yes, agree with Mike, the drift after the stop on the back cast is very
important, this allows you to load the rod correctly.

On the forward cast, slow the rod down as you accelerate. What this does is
take the slack out of the line, and then a thrust or flick at the end of the
forward cast at 11:00 will give you those nice tight loops.

Some of the best fly casters at the show had a nice smooth gentle cast. It's
not about power, let the rod do the work.
-tom

On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 23:11:58 +0100, "Mike Connor"
wrote:

Not true. A good caster under normal circumstances will attempt to remove
any load from the rod at all on the backcast, ( Drifting!). The forward
stroke ( unless you are doing pre-loading tricks, with shooting heads etc),
is all that loads the rod.

The *beginning* of the backcast loads the rod in the same way that the
beginning of the forward cast does. The 'drift' lets you get a longer stroke
(and thus more line speed) while still being able to apply the power stroke
with the tip going up, but I don't think it's required part of a 'normal' cast
- normal being 20-40' in most places I fish. FWIW
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com/ - photo galleries
http://www.chocphoto.com/roff

Hey Myron:

I'm one too! Nice to meet a fellow addict!!

Jack

Mike Connor wrote:

walk on the meniscus!

If I may, Counselor, Hilarious.

Russell

Eric...

I agree. The only way I could see getting more distance would be in that
circumstance where your back cast is limited due to brush or trees...and the
further out you go, you are able to accomplish a better back cast and
thereby making a longer cast. Other than that, I would say that at best,
you'd gain one yard for every yard you walk forward into the river.
And...at some point, if you wade deep enough, it would be less than that in
terms of gaining a one for one trade off on distance. For instance, if
you're up to your eyeball in water, then your backcast may start slapping
the water behind you if you try to throw too much line.

Barry


"Eric" wrote in message
...
Hi..

I don't understand how you get 2 yards casting distance for every yard
you walk out from shore.

eric


On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 19:26:02 +0100, "riverman"
wrote:


"snakefiddler" wrote in message
...
what has been ya'll's experience with bootfoot waders? with spring comin
(soon i hope) i am thinking of getting a pair of three forks 420
denier's,
but they only come in a bootfoot for women. so, i'm wondering about the
comfort level of the boot, as well as the maneuverability factor, and
anything else i may not know to ask about. any *constructive* ;-)
input
would be appreciated.

thanks-
snake


Here's my experience, in a nutshell.

First, I fished from shore. Then I realized that, for every yard I could
walk deeper into the water, it increased my casting distance 2 yards out
into the deeps. So then I got some mudboots. Mid-calf. It was less than a
month before I realized I needed to get farther out. So then I got some
hip
waders (bootfoot). That lasted until the end of a single season. I
realized
that I was constantly pushing the boundary and soaking my legs, and needed
some honest waders. So I got some mid-belly ones, stockingfoot (as I
wanted
to be able to wear them in cool and cold water and needed to be able to
accomodate different arrangements of socks). Those got stolen, so my next
purchase was some stockingfoot armpit-depth waders. Which I love. But
those
mudboots and bootfoot hipwaders live forever in my closet.

Anyway, that has nothing to do with your question, but you asked for my
experience.

Hey, wasn't there a thread about a year ago about some Simms waders for
sale
on EBay from some high-maintenance woman who was dumping her suitor, and
his
gifts? Too bad you didn't get in on those....

--riverman

I think this is bogus thinking. You have the same amount of line out wether
your on the bank or the middle of the river. I think your making all this
harder than you need to.
b.anderson
"Charlie Choc" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 22:53:57 -0500, daytripper
wrote:

On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 22:55:07 +0100, "riverman" wrote:


"rw" wrote in message
. com...
Eric wrote:
Hi..

I don't understand how you get 2 yards casting distance for every yard
you walk out from shore.

More room for the backcast?



Yep. You gain a yard of distance because you are a yard deeper. And you
get
another yard of line out because you're a yard further from the trees. So
your casts reach 2 yards farther out for every yard deeper you wade.

Hmmm...."I don't think so, Tim"

That extra yard of backcast is the same yard when it's in front of you...

Myron measures casting distance as distance from shore. If you are 80' from
shore you can make 90' casts with a 9' rod and only 1' of line. g
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com/ - photo galleries
http://www.chocphoto.com/roff