A Plea for help & a head's up

But such litter back then was riprap now it is the result of riffraff

{ducks and runs for cover in ebay for cheap tying materials while still
peeking for an opprtunity to rebuttal}

"Willi" wrote in message
...


Wayne Knight wrote:

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

fewer FFers seem to "respect the resource and other people" than in
years
past.

I sometimes have similar feelings about what you saying but I think
that's do partly to old fartism and partly because there are so many
more fly fishermen on the rivers today. With any group of people, there
are going to be assholes. The larger the group, the more assholes there
are (as well as more decent folk). I also don't think that fly fishing
works well as a group or social activity. As streams and rivers get more
crowded, people get "forced" to compete for space and are "forced" to
interact with other people in some way or another. If a stream or river
is uncrowded and you come upon another fisherman, you can just go around
that fisherman and get out of sight before you start fishing (which was
the "etiquette" I was taught). In crowded waters, that's not an option.


Perhaps a reflection of society as a whole these days and not
particularly
fly fishing.


I don't buy that. When I grew up in the fifties there was MUCH more
litter around. The roadsides had trash all over and the streams and
rivers were often used as dumping grounds for stuff like old
refrigerators, cars, assorted appliances etc. IMO, litter is WAY down
including streamside.

Willi

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:08:21 GMT, "just al"
wrote:

Ok what's top posting...this too, I'm sure, will get me in trouble...

http://www.dickalba.demon.co.uk/usen.../faq_topp.html
--
Charlie...

"Willi" wrote


I sometimes have similar feelings about what you saying but I think
that's do partly to old fartism


hehe, I will admit that I often wonder if my attitude is more the result of
reality or more the result of the "good ole days were better" B.S. that I
used to see in the old farts, before I became one ...certainly, I have less
patience with others than in years gone by

I'm sure I come across as more negative than I really am ... just something
about me and my approach to things.

I once got a GREAT dog in for training. After the first couple weeks I got
a phone call from the owner and I proceeded to point out many elements of
the dogs nature that would need work and effort, if he were to reach his
potential. After a bit, the owner interrupted my spiel with, "Sounds like
he's a washout, when do you want me to pick him up?" He thought I was being
totally negative, until I replied..

"WASHOUT !!!!????? This is one of the finest young animals I've ever had
my hands on ..... I'd NEVER bother to spend the extra time and effort
thinking about the little weaknesses of a lesser one. The fact that after
only two weeks with him I'm deeply committed to examining every little thing
I can to improve him is a great compliment of him, not a criticism."

My "negative" attitude about the modern fly fisher has similar elements ....
if it wasn't such a wonderful sport, I wouldn't be interested enough to
point out the weaknesses I do see .... it pays to invest your interest in
the best. FFing is one of the best outdoor activities ..... but, it could
be better. One thing I've discussed with three people publishing "how to"
articles and books is the idea of including more about "ethics" in such
material. Seems to me that we used to learn technique from granddad and dad
and more experienced friends and we ALSO learned how to behave from those
same people. Now, many guys are learning technique from videos and guides
that don't also provide the other types of instruction. We used to learn
proper behavior from "a look" ( smile or frown) or a choice word or two from
a respected person .... now that the educational system is changing, the
new technique educators should provide for a replacement to those old
behavior teaching "looks" ...imho

"Willi" wrote in message
...

//snip//
If it "prevents few of them from fishing", what is the purpose of the
regulation?

Willi


The few that it does prevent are those that follow the stocking truck and
take most of the fish out of the stream by the end of October or whenever it
arrives. Then the catch-and-release folks (a different market niche) make
multiple trips to the stream over the next 6 - 8 months. Overall result is a
good experience for fly fishermen in the winter and spring, and a good
experience for everybody else in summer and fall. More fishermen, more
tackle, more licenses.

Now, there's another argument, from a totally different perspective: the
stocking truck as a rural supplement to food stamps. But that's for another
time and place.

Bob

Interesting etiquette. It's like walking upstream when done fishing and
spooking the sipping trout targets of the fisherman above you?

Thanks!
"Charlie Choc" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:08:21 GMT, "just al"
wrote:

Ok what's top posting...this too, I'm sure, will get me in trouble...

http://www.dickalba.demon.co.uk/usen.../faq_topp.html
--
Charlie...

"Bob Patton" rwpmailatcharterdotnet wrote in message
...
//snip//
The few that it does prevent are those that follow the stocking truck and
take most of the fish out of the stream by the end of October or whenever
it
arrives. Then the catch-and-release folks (a different market niche) make
multiple trips to the stream over the next 6 - 8 months. Overall result is
a
good experience for fly fishermen in the winter and spring, and a good
experience for everybody else in summer and fall. More fishermen, more
tackle, more licenses.

//snip//

Sorry for my own response to my own somewhat unclear post. I should have
inserted in between the first two sentences something to indicate that
preventing the stockers from immediately being taken allows the
catch-and-release folks to make trips . . .

Bob
Who eventually will learn to proofread.

I like that observation a lot. I was taught to fly fish in Montana.
Etiquette was everything (and etiquette on the street, ranch, or woods was
no different--do un to others...etc.)

I have verbally fought many young guides as they drifted (with clients)
through the hole I was wade fishing. Poor decision, but they apparently
were not taught to row away or wait for a wave on before moving through. Or
they realize that, "The guy that walks upstream more than a mile to fish a
run must know what he's doing and allowing my clients to fish that run will
boost my tip."

Again the greed comes into play.
"Larry L" wrote in message
...

"Willi" wrote


I sometimes have similar feelings about what you saying but I think
that's do partly to old fartism


hehe, I will admit that I often wonder if my attitude is more the result
of
reality or more the result of the "good ole days were better" B.S. that I
used to see in the old farts, before I became one ...certainly, I have
less
patience with others than in years gone by

I'm sure I come across as more negative than I really am ... just
something
about me and my approach to things.

I once got a GREAT dog in for training. After the first couple weeks I
got
a phone call from the owner and I proceeded to point out many elements of
the dogs nature that would need work and effort, if he were to reach his
potential. After a bit, the owner interrupted my spiel with, "Sounds
like
he's a washout, when do you want me to pick him up?" He thought I was
being
totally negative, until I replied..

"WASHOUT !!!!????? This is one of the finest young animals I've ever had
my hands on ..... I'd NEVER bother to spend the extra time and effort
thinking about the little weaknesses of a lesser one. The fact that
after
only two weeks with him I'm deeply committed to examining every little
thing
I can to improve him is a great compliment of him, not a criticism."

My "negative" attitude about the modern fly fisher has similar elements
.....
if it wasn't such a wonderful sport, I wouldn't be interested enough to
point out the weaknesses I do see .... it pays to invest your interest in
the best. FFing is one of the best outdoor activities ..... but, it
could
be better. One thing I've discussed with three people publishing "how
to"
articles and books is the idea of including more about "ethics" in such
material. Seems to me that we used to learn technique from granddad and
dad
and more experienced friends and we ALSO learned how to behave from those
same people. Now, many guys are learning technique from videos and
guides
that don't also provide the other types of instruction. We used to learn
proper behavior from "a look" ( smile or frown) or a choice word or two
from
a respected person .... now that the educational system is changing, the
new technique educators should provide for a replacement to those old
behavior teaching "looks" ...imho

Handyman Mike wrote:snip .. i don't believe in private waters either.

Don't think that will ever go over in Texas as only 2%of the state is not
privately owned.

Big Dale

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:32:22 GMT, "just al"
wrote:

Interesting etiquette. It's like walking upstream when done fishing and
spooking the sipping trout targets of the fisherman above you?


As long as you trim the posts you're replying to, it's okay with most
people. Be aware that it's basically a violation of custom and
manners. I happen to prefer top posting myself, but the 'Net has
trained me into this. Just figure it's one of those things that would
take too long to explain and it still wouldn't make much sense unless
you knew the very early history of the 'Net. Live with it, learn it,
you don't have to love it.

There's no need to quote 2 pages of stuff to agree with or refute one
line of it. You _must_ remember to trim your posts. Too many people
forget it (mostly top posters, btw).

The last paragraph wasn't just aimed at you. I'm hoping some of the
others will read it and take it to heart.
--

rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing.
Often taunted by trout.
Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck. Only a damn fool would rely on it.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

"Bob Patton" rwpmailatcharterdotnet wrote in message
...

....Now, there's another argument, from a totally different perspective:
the
stocking truck as a rural supplement to food stamps. But that's for
another
time and place.

Another time, perhaps, but I don't think you'll find a better place.

Wolfgang